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The difference attitude makes

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Having coach hurling at club and county level over the years its amazing the difference attitude makes. I know that this is nothing new to people in similar positions to myself but the magnitude of the difference is immeasurable . a good player with a bad attitude can fall way way below standard and be beaten by an average guy while a pretty average guy can outplay a pretty good player if his mind is in the right place . Nothing gives a manager/coach more satisfaction than to be able to get the most from his bunch of players when he has there attitude right . You look at the best managers , Cody ,Boylan ,Sheedy, etc they all hit the spot perfectly . but when it goes against you the opposite is painfully true. Unfortunately I have witnessed too much of the latter in attitude and only twice with the former but when it clicks its worth all the effort and all the heartache . Players themselves obviously have the ability to make or break this issue but a good manager/coach can bring it out in them . mowinbardown (Meath) - Posts: 8 - 12/04/2017 14:40:58 1978824 Link
Agree with you, in my club players with the most ability usually have a lot worse attitude than the average, so frustrating Teddy5 (Wexford) - Posts: 122 - 12/04/2017 15:21:17 1978833 Link
To be like Linford you have to think like Linford. P.M.A. Positive. Mental. Attitude. Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12116 - 12/04/2017 15:54:54 1978842 Link
Bad attitude really negates a players ability without a doubt. A lot of skilful lads come through and are used to being top dogs and when they move into adult setup they don't realise their reputation is reset to zero. I do think though too much emphasis is placed on attitude/physicality you know the old saying is true "hard work will never beat talent if talent works hard". You need skilful players with attitude as in mean/hungry determined, average players with the right attitude will unfortunately only take you so far. arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 12/04/2017 22:08:28 1978948 Link
Lots of studies done on this. Equal ability groups given tasks. On completion one praised for their talent one praised for their hard work. They keep repeating making tasks harder. Group praised for hard work always comes out on top. Guys praised for talent develop fear of failure and are reluctant to take on more difficult tasks in case they don't succeed. Guy's praised for hard work willing to do their best. I think sometimes bad attitude masks a fear of failure Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1829 - 12/04/2017 22:56:45 1978960 Link
Replying To Mayonman: "Lots of studies done on this. Equal ability groups given tasks. On completion one praised for their talent one praised for their hard work. They keep repeating making tasks harder. Group praised for hard work always comes out on top. Guys praised for talent develop fear of failure and are reluctant to take on more difficult tasks in case they don't succeed. Guy's praised for hard work willing to do their best. I think sometimes bad attitude masks a fear of failure" Very interesting Mayoman. Do you have a link to that study. Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 13/04/2017 03:35:32 1978982 Link
Replying To Mayonman: "Lots of studies done on this. Equal ability groups given tasks. On completion one praised for their talent one praised for their hard work. They keep repeating making tasks harder. Group praised for hard work always comes out on top. Guys praised for talent develop fear of failure and are reluctant to take on more difficult tasks in case they don't succeed. Guy's praised for hard work willing to do their best. I think sometimes bad attitude masks a fear of failure" What kind of a club corner forward would you prefer ? 1.. the guy who won't train much but still manage to score 1-4 in a club game . 2.. or the headless chicken type who will run all day and train all night but could kick a point to save his life!? Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 13/04/2017 09:29:59 1979000 Link
Michael Darragh McCauley two years ago stated in an interview he grew up with better far more talented players, he listened for years about how person A and person B were going to go on and do great things , he was never mentioned, however he was the hard worker of the group always working and improving incrementally, he said it does now give him great satisfaction to look at his medals and now his attitude and work paid off, he also stated many of the so called talented wonder kids not only didn't achieve at county level they failed to anything at club level , many stopped playing. Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 13/04/2017 10:34:34 1979010 Link
Replying To Awwwwnow: "What kind of a club corner forward would you prefer ? 1.. the guy who won't train much but still manage to score 1-4 in a club game . 2.. or the headless chicken type who will run all day and train all night but could kick a point to save his life!?" wow, there was me thinking that sport was made up of a multitude of different personality types when all along there are only two extremes. for me its the headless chicken every time. As he gets older and relaxs he will become much better at making good decisions. As mr superstar gets older he will become much better at blaming young lads for not giving him the right ball twiceasnice97 (Clare) - Posts: 11 - 13/04/2017 11:20:21 1979025 Link
Replying To mowin.bar.down: "Having coach hurling at club and county level over the years its amazing the difference attitude makes. I know that this is nothing new to people in similar positions to myself but the magnitude of the difference is immeasurable . a good player with a bad attitude can fall way way below standard and be beaten by an average guy while a pretty average guy can outplay a pretty good player if his mind is in the right place . Nothing gives a manager/coach more satisfaction than to be able to get the most from his bunch of players when he has there attitude right . You look at the best managers , Cody ,Boylan ,Sheedy, etc they all hit the spot perfectly . but when it goes against you the opposite is painfully true. Unfortunately I have witnessed too much of the latter in attitude and only twice with the former but when it clicks its worth all the effort and all the heartache . Players themselves obviously have the ability to make or break this issue but a good manager/coach can bring it out in them ." I hope I am not reading you wrong , but i gather reading between lines you may be speaking of Meath football presently, the attitude was not there over previous years, and while it took a few games for Andy McEntee to get attitude right, by Christ he got it right in the end, and Meath were the best team in division 2 come end of campaign. This all bodes well going into championship. The players who have ability are now bringing what andy has instilled into club games with huge scores and performances, all to the benefit of Meath football. Not since eob has there been this much of a buzz about the championship. Long may it continue. Hon the Royal royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 13/04/2017 12:21:03 1979044 Link
Replying To twiceasnice97: "wow, there was me thinking that sport was made up of a multitude of different personality types when all along there are only two extremes. for me its the headless chicken every time. As he gets older and relaxs he will become much better at making good decisions. As mr superstar gets older he will become much better at blaming young lads for not giving him the right ball" Well said. Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1908 - 13/04/2017 12:32:49 1979048 Link
Replying To arock: "Bad attitude really negates a players ability without a doubt. A lot of skilful lads come through and are used to being top dogs and when they move into adult setup they don't realise their reputation is reset to zero. I do think though too much emphasis is placed on attitude/physicality you know the old saying is true "hard work will never beat talent if talent works hard". You need skilful players with attitude as in mean/hungry determined, average players with the right attitude will unfortunately only take you so far." The thing is; you're saying there are two different groups - the skilful players and the hard workers - whereas, at the top level of sport, there are many players who are not only very talented, but also the hardest workers. A player like Henry Shefflin comes to mind. Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2459 - 13/04/2017 12:34:37 1979049 Link
It's frequently like this. The best players are the ones who work all the time while the ones that have more talent dont make it. Roy Keane openly admits this. Seamus Coleman is another example. He was an unspectacular player in terms of skill but never had a bad game, was always mr consistency in the local leagues. Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 13/04/2017 13:07:55 1979060 Link
Replying To Killarney.87: "Very interesting Mayoman. Do you have a link to that study." I have read it in various management books (Smarter Faster Better: The Secrets of Being Productive in Life and Business Book by Charles Duhigg) rather than the study itself. However below is the link to the study with the summary (copy and paste....not my fancy language I'm afraid to say) Praise for intelligence can undermine children's motivation and performance. Mueller, Claudia M.; Dweck, Carol S. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, Vol 75(1), Jul 1998, 33-52. link Praise for ability is commonly considered to have beneficial effects on motivation. Contrary to this popular belief, six studies demonstrated that praise for intelligence had more negative consequences for students' achievement motivation than praise for effort. Fifth graders praised for intelligence were found to care more about performance goals relative to learning goals than children praised for effort. After failure, they also displayed less task persistence, less task enjoyment, more low-ability attributions, and worse task performance than children praised for effort. Finally, children praised for intelligence described it as a fixed trait more than children praised for hard work, who believed it to be subject to improvement. These findings have important implications for how achievement is best encouraged, as well as for more theoretical issues, such as the potential cost of performance goals and the socialization of contingent self-worth. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2016 APA, all rights reserved) Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1829 - 13/04/2017 13:11:10 1979061 Link
Replying To Awwwwnow: "What kind of a club corner forward would you prefer ? 1.. the guy who won't train much but still manage to score 1-4 in a club game . 2.. or the headless chicken type who will run all day and train all night but could kick a point to save his life!?" Not sure how either of those examples are related to my post ......... For clarification my post was talking about what can lead to a bad attitude, and how to reduce the chances of it occurring. Now my dear man as you undoubtedly have all the answer's you will be aware that life is made up of many variables and you can only tackle the ones within your control. But to reply directly to your question I'll make a few assumptions - I take it that u are assuming the guy running around like a headless chicken has a good attitude. Who would I pick - well that depends on what my goals are. Winning that game I pick the guy that gets 1-4. Developing the team you may or may not pick him. You don't want to reward bad attitude but you may want to bring him with you to try and reform him.......I'm afraid I don't know the answer to that! he can't have that bad an attitude if he is that good. He must have practiced at some stage. Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1829 - 13/04/2017 13:22:46 1979069 Link
Replying To Donegalman: "It's frequently like this. The best players are the ones who work all the time while the ones that have more talent dont make it. Roy Keane openly admits this. Seamus Coleman is another example. He was an unspectacular player in terms of skill but never had a bad game, was always mr consistency in the local leagues." Correct. Hardest worker becomes the most talented. The below book examines so called natural talent and comes up with the conclusion that there is no such thing (other than physiological advantages i.e. a 7ft basketball player). Really good read, examining everything from footballers, Kenyan runners, chess player...every sport. You didn't come out of the maternity ward with a gift, says it was the environment you were in. e.g. The Kenyan lad is not a great runner because he is born great. He had to run 10k to and from school each day hence he good plenty of practice when he was young without even knowing he was practicing. link Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1829 - 13/04/2017 13:30:15 1979075 Link
Really interesting tread While I understand the frustration around individuals attitude - I feel one of the most important things for any team is to be committed to a collective Vision and goal. This provides a direction for everyone. Its allot easier to coach a player/players with a poor attitude if this is in place. Feedback can be very constructive and progress can be made easier. When there's no progress - then cut them from the pack. As Cody says, one bad apple is capable of bringing the team down. Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 13/04/2017 13:50:43 1979086 Link
it#s the reason why Wes Hoolihan was rarely if ever picked for Ireland . But if you look at recent games , who is responsible for actually creating chances and consequently accumulating points and achieveing victories it is Wes. without him we don't create a lot. You need a mixture of talent and work in your team. s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 13/04/2017 14:11:26 1979094 Link
Depends also what we consider a "bad" attitude: we never know what's going on in people's lives which may cause them to underperform or to maybe display negative characteristics. It's not always a matter of application or attitude. Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 13/04/2017 16:52:13 1979159 Link
Replying To Gleebo: "Depends also what we consider a "bad" attitude: we never know what's going on in people's lives which may cause them to underperform or to maybe display negative characteristics. It's not always a matter of application or attitude." Your right. Once u have someone displaying bad attitude as a manager/coach u have to decide if u can get the root cause and change it. That's not easy and sometimes u have to give up on them for the benefit of the group. Always a tough call. Personally I try and bring the guy round but not always easy. But remember if he's a good player he must have practised or been dedicated at some stage so there is a chance to change him back Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1829 - 13/04/2017 22:31:19 1979254 Link