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Fact still remains that alot of teams would benefit from a B championship.Donegal are well ahead of the bottom 16 so I think we are safe for now. Down have a great opportunity to get into an Ulster final so instead of a bad attempt at getting a rise why not think of the positives in your own county. I think Donegal people are being really good in defeat discussing what went wrong whilst also giving Tyrone their due credit.
dstuction (Donegal) - Posts: 1209 - 19/06/2017 16:30:20 2001947 Link 0 |
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One wipeout performance against Tyrone and you're saying Donegal would be in the bottom 16 counties in Ireland? And people accuse us of getting carried away. Focus on your own aristocracy there and the Monaghan game, hopefully you give them a right rattle. JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 19/06/2017 16:42:13 2001958 Link 0 |
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I agree with an awful lot of this but one point I'd say about us as a county and our fans. I agree we lose the run of ourselves and probably expectations went too high after a very good league (and let's not forget that it was a very good league). But similarly over the winter months and previous years, when things go against us there's a tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The truth is always somewhere in the middle. We're probably not as good as we thought, but we're not as bad as Sunday either. JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 19/06/2017 16:44:42 2001959 Link 0 |
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Donegal almost reached the Division One Leage Final earlier this year. Antrim are in Division 4. These aren't opinions but facts. The gulf between us was very evident then in Ulster Championship. Donegal were well beaten but suggesting we are 'B' championship material makes your whole point, well, pointless... We have had 'limited' success in recent years of 1 All Ireland, 2 final appearances and 3 Ulster titles in 6 consecutive Ulster finals. If that's limited, where does that leave other counties we could name? Don't take your inferiority complex out on a poster who was making a fair point.
Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1319 - 19/06/2017 17:17:15 2001985 Link 0 |
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Our fans are ridiculous. I think that we look 2 and 3 games ahead, talk about all irelands, lose focus, don't account for how good the opposition is and big up our own lads with rose tinted glasses. We were excellent in the league. We finished by dropping 3 points though. The ghosts of holding on and trying to fall over the line with the ball were all too evident against monaghan in ballyshannon. Its going to be more of the same I fear, unless the team are allowed go out and die with their boots on. We were 10 points down on sunday and we continued to park the bus. (A managerial issue). Our u21s were very stylish this year and not afraid to have a go. We got caught against dublin after a very taxing list of fixtures. But were it not for a bad choice by a tyrone forward in omagh, we would have been out in the first round. I am not saying that they are no good or only middling, they are very good. But I am always aware of the fractions that are there between being really good and not even winning. I think that in a year or 2 we will have great lads coming through to compete again. They are great lads now, but not going to challenge the likes of Tyrone, Mayo, Dublin, Kerry and probably half a dozen others. Longford could be a huge wake up call for the supporters I am on about. Lets give them a lot of slack this year. They won silverware and gave us good days out in the spring. We are in the deep end now and it is tough tough going in there. I would love to see them cut lose. Win lose or draw if they did that and lost doing their best, or won for that mater, we would be proud of all of them rather than walking away wondering what should have been done add infinitum. Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 19/06/2017 17:24:56 2001992 Link 1 |
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Lockjaw The difference between Div 1 and 3 / 4 is not as big as you imagine. A good example is that Longford beat Monaghan (and Down )in the qualifiers ONLY LAST YEAR - i.e. 2 Division 1 teams at the time. The qualifiers draw was made since I posted last but as things have turned out you will have another chance to test out your theory quite soon. Also there is a huge difference between Great players / managers and Good ones and all outstanding teams have 1 or 2 great players that makes them a really top side. It is this that factor alone that distinguishes Donegal from Derry or Monagahn from Meath. Murphy and McManus are each the difference, but for me most of the rest of those squads would not look out of place in most Division 2 or 3 teams. Down got 5 Allstars in 2010 but I would highlight only Marty Clarke and Benny Coulter as the really outstanding players who propelled that team on to the highest level. Similarly what would Tyrone of the noughties have been without Canavan ? And what would would Armagh have been without McConville ? Thus you must agree that there is an extremely fine line between success and failure and if Murphy becomes unavailable at some point Donegal will be closer to Carlow than they are to Dublin. I'd therefore be careful about promoting a B championship in Donegal in case you find yourselves in it. Also "Smaller" Counties deserve their day in the sun. Dismissing the huge work that goes on in Wicklow, Antrim or Leitrim with a tiered championship would be a huge discredit to the association in my opinion. For instance Tipperary got to the semi final last year yet played in Div 3 this year. These guys, and all the others, have got to be allowed to dream, just as I am heading to Athletic Grounds next week thinking Down can reach a Ulster Final even though I realise no one else gives us much of a chance. spiritof1991 (Down) - Posts: 693 - 19/06/2017 19:30:37 2002078 Link 1 |
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Lockjaw The difference between Div 1 and 3 / 4 is not as big as you imagine. A good example is that Longford beat Monaghan (and Down )in the qualifiers ONLY LAST YEAR - i.e. 2 Division 1 teams at the time. The qualifiers draw was made since I posted last but as things have turned out you will have another chance to test out your theory quite soon. Also there is a huge difference between Great players / managers and Good ones and all outstanding teams have 1 or 2 great players that makes them a really top side. It is this that factor alone that distinguishes Donegal from Derry or Monagahn from Meath. Murphy and McManus are each the difference, but for me most of the rest of those squads would not look out of place in most Division 2 or 3 teams. Down got 5 Allstars in 2010 but I would highlight only Marty Clarke and Benny Coulter as the really outstanding players who propelled that team on to the highest level. Similarly what would Tyrone of the noughties have been without Canavan ? And what would would Armagh have been without McConville ? Thus you must agree that there is an extremely fine line between success and failure and if Murphy becomes unavailable at some point Donegal will be closer to Carlow than they are to Dublin. I'd therefore be careful about promoting a B championship in Donegal in case you find yourselves in it. Also "Smaller" Counties deserve their day in the sun. Dismissing the huge work that goes on in Wicklow, Antrim or Leitrim with a tiered championship would be a huge discredit to the association in my opinion. For instance Tipperary got to the semi final last year yet played in Div 3 this year. These guys, and all the others, have got to be allowed to dream, just as I am heading to Athletic Grounds next week thinking Down can reach a Ulster Final even though I realise no one else gives us much of a chance."]Start a new thread why don't you Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 19/06/2017 20:26:35 2002095 Link 0 |
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Poor post spirit. One bad performance does not make this young Donegal team into "also rans" & certainly wouldn't have them anywhere near the embarrassing levels Down have found themselves at. MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 19/06/2017 20:30:40 2002098 Link 0 |
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A lot changed on Sunday. Big surprises for many.
border Gael (Monaghan) - Posts: 894 - 19/06/2017 20:41:24 2002108 Link 0 |
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Wish I had went to the bookies.
border Gael (Monaghan) - Posts: 894 - 19/06/2017 20:43:57 2002113 Link 0 |
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It is not just the development and physical strength. Tyrone's management team is on another stratosphere compared to what Donegal have.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2779 - 19/06/2017 21:05:28 2002126 Link 1 |
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Lockjaw The difference between Div 1 and 3 / 4 is not as big as you imagine. A good example is that Longford beat Monaghan (and Down )in the qualifiers ONLY LAST YEAR - i.e. 2 Division 1 teams at the time. The qualifiers draw was made since I posted last but as things have turned out you will have another chance to test out your theory quite soon. Also there is a huge difference between Great players / managers and Good ones and all outstanding teams have 1 or 2 great players that makes them a really top side. It is this that factor alone that distinguishes Donegal from Derry or Monagahn from Meath. Murphy and McManus are each the difference, but for me most of the rest of those squads would not look out of place in most Division 2 or 3 teams. Down got 5 Allstars in 2010 but I would highlight only Marty Clarke and Benny Coulter as the really outstanding players who propelled that team on to the highest level. Similarly what would Tyrone of the noughties have been without Canavan ? And what would would Armagh have been without McConville ? Thus you must agree that there is an extremely fine line between success and failure and if Murphy becomes unavailable at some point Donegal will be closer to Carlow than they are to Dublin. I'd therefore be careful about promoting a B championship in Donegal in case you find yourselves in it. Also "Smaller" Counties deserve their day in the sun. Dismissing the huge work that goes on in Wicklow, Antrim or Leitrim with a tiered championship would be a huge discredit to the association in my opinion. For instance Tipperary got to the semi final last year yet played in Div 3 this year. These guys, and all the others, have got to be allowed to dream, just as I am heading to Athletic Grounds next week thinking Down can reach a Ulster Final even though I realise no one else gives us much of a chance."]Saying the Donegal or Monaghan teams minus one player wouldn't look out of place in division 2 or 3 teams is just nonsense, alot of fine players in those teams. If all you needed was one top player to elevate yourself to the top table then the likes of Tipp with Declan Browne would have had alot more success. patk (Monaghan) - Posts: 936 - 19/06/2017 21:49:52 2002170 Link 0 |
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Very interesting comments by Mickey Harte and I refer back to what I said above after the game. https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/mickey-harte-referee-david-gough-127298 "The defensive work was excellent and I must say that the referee had a big hand in that," Mickey Harte acknowledged Gough's display after the game. "He had a certain standard of refereeing there which the players caught onto very quickly. There are other days some of those turnovers would've been fouls but he didn't give them as fouls and our players then played, because of that, in that particular way. "Of course, Donegal had the chance to do the same thing, we didn't get them handy either. "I thought it was a really good performance from David Gough. If we had performances like that every day we went out - and not just because we won the game - I'd be very happy." I thought it was too hard to get a free from Gough. He was consistent, but this really suited Tyrone with their strength advantage over a lot of our younger (and smaller) lads. I said we were too 'fair' in the tackle and Mickey basically echoed it, "Donegal had the chance to do the same thing", but we didn't. We didn't adjust to a referee that was allowing a lot of actual fouls go, we defended like we had a ref that would blow up any indiscretion. Some of that goes back to not being able to stop the powerful runners physically, but a lot was down to lacking the intensity and cynicism in the tackle that Tyrone showed. benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1422 - 19/06/2017 21:52:45 2002175 Link 0 |
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I'm not trying to be condescending to anyone. I have no doubt that there are many brilliant Gaels in the so called lesser counties. Indeed any time I've heard Turlough O'Brien speak you could not but be impressed by his passion and drive. I'd also rate Brendan Murphy very highly and he'd come into consideration in any best midfielder in Ireland debate. Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9116 - 19/06/2017 21:53:27 2002176 Link 2 |
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You going back over every old message to feel good about yourself? Your original point that everyone was writing Tyrone off was incorrect. I actually called a Tyrone win but the margin of win surprised me I'll admit.
Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1319 - 19/06/2017 22:04:47 2002183 Link 1 |
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Great local rivals but a lot of healthy respect and friendship Id say between both counties as well, I've witnessed both support the other team when they reached Croke Park ..its an Ulster thing I think. There would be a lot of cross border admiration for people like Mickey Harte/Art McGrory on one side and Brian McEniff/Jim McGuinness on the other side as well Sometimes its difficult to pinpoint exact reasons for a teams collapse on a given day such as Kerry v Meath in 2001 semi final. I can still recall Donegal fans lamenting a 12 point beating v Tyrone 1989 Ulster final replay only to bounce back and capture the Anglo Celt the following year. Indeed some Donegal people I know wanted a complete clean out following an 8 point reversal by Down in '91 yet the very same panel brought them glory in '92. Now is the time for all true supporters to get behind the young players beginning with the first qualifier match in 2 weeks. Interesting thoughts on the merit of the new young players. Tyrone have many young players as well, seems to be a conveyer belt of talented players coming off the bench ( MOTM in Thurles yesterday was a 19 year Cork hurler). Big difference I think is when a team is forced to throw in too many debutants into the deep end together. Successful teams stay on top by making gradual but significant changes when on top e.g. JMcG introducing Ryan McHugh and Odhran McNeilis to a sucessful panel. its a huge step up from underage to senior championship as well. Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 504 - 19/06/2017 22:09:54 2002191 Link 1 |
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Laois have recently fallen from Div 1 to 4 in successive seasons I think, so its not such a big gap. Who are these "class" payers that Donegal have? They certainly have some good county standard players players but most are journeymen. I feel Seem 1 of your guys play for Queens v Down this year and he was extremely poor and yet he played last week (and did nothing). Lockjaw - I have 2 questions for you; 1. Name 3 Donegal players from last Sunday, other than Murphy, that would get into the Dublin or Kerry Teams ? 2. How would you feel if Donegal went through a lean patch and were asked to play in a B championship. Would you still be in favor if it? spiritof1991 (Down) - Posts: 693 - 19/06/2017 22:20:40 2002198 Link 0 |
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Exactly. The result was always in doubt. the fact that bookies had Tyrone favourite proved that. In fact I think Donegal support have been great in defeat. We are certainly not used to it and yet we are all giving credit to Tyrone. Other counties appear to now be looking for any chance to take a shot at Donegal. Screw that. We are still in the top 8 in Ireland but got our asses handed to us yesterday. Its not nice but to compare us to div 3/4 if a joke and only displays peoples complete lack of gaelic knowledge. dstuction (Donegal) - Posts: 1209 - 19/06/2017 22:30:51 2002204 Link 1 |
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1. Ryan McHugh, Neil McGee, Paddy McBrearty 2. Yes benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1422 - 19/06/2017 22:51:21 2002215 Link 0 |
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Listen we have a young team, we came up against a team approaching the peak of its power with one of the best football tacticians that ever lived to guide them, we on the other hand need a change of management, we need to get the players back in that won't play for them. Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2739 - 19/06/2017 23:01:26 2002222 Link 1 |