National - Dublin v Tyrone Semi-Final

It looks like Colm Cavanagh will be fit which gives Tyrone a better chance. For Tyrone to win I think we need probably a goal or 2 and not concede any which is a very tough ask.

Dublin have an edge on scoring frees as well, so I would still think Dublin are the likely winner but you never know and here's hoping for a Tyrone win.

tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts:632 - 10/08/2017 17:29:31   2032077

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Replying To IrishGael3:  "David Coldrick refereeing this game is not good news to you Tyrone fans or am I wrong?"
Not good for us Dubs anyway,we'll get nothing easy from a Meath man ! No love lost between ourselves and the Royals !

DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts:502 - 10/08/2017 17:31:42   2032080

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Replying To HawkEyed:  "Great news for the Dubs, a neighbour refereeing the game......I wonder who Croke Park want in the Final. Sure the Final will be a sell out anyway?"
Get the excuses in early.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts:2992 - 10/08/2017 17:43:03   2032087

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "there was about the same amount of AI final experience amongst the Tyrone ranks in 2003 when they blitzed a Kerry side packed with AI final caps.

Its hardly a conclusive stat."
Wrong Saffron, statistics show conclusively that the present Dublin squad have a considerable edge over Tyrone when it comes to experience of big game occasions, what is not conclusive is to what extent if any this stat will impact on the result of the game. Looking at the three teams left in the hurling, Cork have the least experienced squad. However while more experienced both the Galway and Waterford squads have bad Croke park experiences. In contrast the majority of the Dublin football panel have experienced winning in semis and finals and while I 100% agree that this does not mean that Dublin will win, I have no doubt if a statistician was listing stats for Dublin's chances of winning, Dublin's recent record in semi-finals and finals would be listed as a plus.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts:62 - 10/08/2017 17:48:11   2032089

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Replying To mightydubs:  "Tyrone and Dublin are completely different, Tyrone play defensive counter attacking football while Dublin play to suit the opposition and can easily go man for man where Tyrone only play defensive and will nearly always concede the kick out, I'd most definitely say Dublin are at a different level to anything in ulster at the moment and that's not arrogance it's just how it is now."
Tyrone and Dublin are not completely different. They play very similarly and it is nonsense to suggest otherwise. Both teams have savage pace, can counter attack at great speed, both mix the hand pass and kick pass really well, they both have a lot of youthful energy in their sides, rack up big scores, both get big numbers back around the 'D' zone and are extremely organised in terms of that defensive screen, both are to be seen with 15 men behind the ball when it suits. In fact the only difference that I see between both teams is that Dublin have the All Ireland medals while Tyrone are the pretenders, and that is a significant difference to be fair. I get the reasons why some would like to portray these two teams as 'completely different' but the reality doesn't stack up at all when it's examined in any detail.

Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts:523 - 10/08/2017 17:49:27   2032090

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This will be a great game to say the least . We have the benchmark of a side this past few years in Dublin , and a ever evolving tyrone side on the rise , Tyrone are very close to getting a another A1 I don't and I am not sure if this is the year , but I am sure we will see . Hello btw everyone here's to a great game

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts:4872 - 10/08/2017 18:42:29   2032106

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Replying To Donegal_abroad:  "Tyrone and Dublin are not completely different. They play very similarly and it is nonsense to suggest otherwise. Both teams have savage pace, can counter attack at great speed, both mix the hand pass and kick pass really well, they both have a lot of youthful energy in their sides, rack up big scores, both get big numbers back around the 'D' zone and are extremely organised in terms of that defensive screen, both are to be seen with 15 men behind the ball when it suits. In fact the only difference that I see between both teams is that Dublin have the All Ireland medals while Tyrone are the pretenders, and that is a significant difference to be fair. I get the reasons why some would like to portray these two teams as 'completely different' but the reality doesn't stack up at all when it's examined in any detail."
Agree with your first sentence, Dublin and Tyrone are not completely different. However I don't agree that they are completely the same either. Tyrone are an out and out counter-attacking team irrespective of the opposition. Dublin have evolved closer to the Tyrone model, the catalyst for this evolution being the Donegal defeat of 2014. Dublin have learned that if you set up orthodox against a talented and well organised counter-attacking team such as Tyrone or Donegal (2014), trouble is brewing. However the Dublin model is not as extreme, for example you will seldom see Brian Fenton standing on the edge of the small rectangle while Colm Cavanagh is seldom anywhere else. Also even against counter attackers Dublin will revert to an orthodox set-up at times while Tyrone will never do this. Regarding kick pass vs hand pass, stats for the last number of years have shown that the dubs have a higher percentage of kicks than any other county team.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts:62 - 10/08/2017 18:45:34   2032110

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Replying To HawkEyed:  "Great news for the Dubs, a neighbour refereeing the game......I wonder who Croke Park want in the Final. Sure the Final will be a sell out anyway?"
Coldrick is a decent ref in fairness but I think a Munster or Connaught ref would have been more suitable.

Dublin do seem to get a lot of Leinster refs in their big games over the last few years, maybe there is a shortage of quality refs from other provinces but that seems like a poor excuse.

KY4SAM2015 (Kerry) - Posts:570 - 10/08/2017 18:46:05   2032111

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Wrong Saffron, statistics show conclusively that the present Dublin squad have a considerable edge over Tyrone when it comes to experience of big game occasions, what is not conclusive is to what extent if any this stat will impact on the result of the game. Looking at the three teams left in the hurling, Cork have the least experienced squad. However while more experienced both the Galway and Waterford squads have bad Croke park experiences. In contrast the majority of the Dublin football panel have experienced winning in semis and finals and while I 100% agree that this does not mean that Dublin will win, I have no doubt if a statistician was listing stats for Dublin's chances of winning, Dublin's recent record in semi-finals and finals would be listed as a plus."
you listed AI final experience. This is a semi final and as i pointed out it counted for little in the past. It will come down to ability and tactics not who's played in what.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts:1475 - 10/08/2017 18:56:00   2032114

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From the Tyrone starting 15 the last day out how many gets into the Dublin line up?? I'd say 2 at most with Peter harte and colm cavanagh

mightydubs (Dublin) - Posts:24 - 10/08/2017 19:06:49   2032120

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Agree with your first sentence, Dublin and Tyrone are not completely different. However I don't agree that they are completely the same either. Tyrone are an out and out counter-attacking team irrespective of the opposition. Dublin have evolved closer to the Tyrone model, the catalyst for this evolution being the Donegal defeat of 2014. Dublin have learned that if you set up orthodox against a talented and well organised counter-attacking team such as Tyrone or Donegal (2014), trouble is brewing. However the Dublin model is not as extreme, for example you will seldom see Brian Fenton standing on the edge of the small rectangle while Colm Cavanagh is seldom anywhere else. Also even against counter attackers Dublin will revert to an orthodox set-up at times while Tyrone will never do this. Regarding kick pass vs hand pass, stats for the last number of years have shown that the dubs have a higher percentage of kicks than any other county team."
Dublin definitely kick the ball really well, really effectively and if the comparison was of Tyrone and Dublin over the past few years then yeah, they kick the ball the most. But having watched Tyrone of this year, they are kicking the ball very well and still moving the ball by hand at serious speed. Would probably agree that Dublin are slightly more orthodox at times and Tyrone are more aligned to one very well orchestrated style, however Dublin do get a lot of men back and do this often to crowd out any goal opportunities and 'scoring D' point opportunities. It's an intriguing battle, certainly not the clash of styles of Donegal V Dublin 3 years ago, because Dublin have now adapted their game so much defensively. To me, this is more of a battle of two very similar teams; one who look to be at their phenomenal peak and another who are extremely well-drilled pretenders until they step over the line.

Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts:523 - 10/08/2017 19:07:34   2032122

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "you listed AI final experience. This is a semi final and as i pointed out it counted for little in the past. It will come down to ability and tactics not who's played in what."
Why just ability and tactics, what about luck, errors by officials, injuries. All I'm saying is that a lot of different factors can influence the game and if experience is one of them (and maybe it's not) then that advantage of big game experience is with the Dubs, just like some people reference hunger as a spur to performance and if that is true the advantage of hunger is with Tyrone. Just think that to dismiss the experience of the Dublin team over recent years as irrelevant to the outcome of the match is foolish.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts:62 - 10/08/2017 19:23:08   2032124

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Replying To mightydubs:  "From the Tyrone starting 15 the last day out how many gets into the Dublin line up?? I'd say 2 at most with Peter harte and colm cavanagh"
As a matter of interest who would you swap them for in a Dublin strongest 15? This game will be all about the sum of the parts. It's hard to see any one attacking player really standing out given both teams' defensive capabilities. Maybe Dermo can give another point scoring masterclass a la 2011.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts:2992 - 10/08/2017 19:37:05   2032129

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Replying To mightydubs:  "From the Tyrone starting 15 the last day out how many gets into the Dublin line up?? I'd say 2 at most with Peter harte and colm cavanagh"
Maybe some of the Tyrone posters could tell us how many of the Dublin starters would, in their opinion, get into the Tyrone starting team.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts:892 - 10/08/2017 19:58:38   2032135

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Cavanagh at midfield and maybe harte hf that would be it, can't see us getting caught like 2014 or Tyrone having enough up front as Dublin will protect the scoring zone

mightydubs (Dublin) - Posts:24 - 10/08/2017 21:21:56   2032153

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Replying To KY4SAM2015:  "Coldrick is a decent ref in fairness but I think a Munster or Connaught ref would have been more suitable.

Dublin do seem to get a lot of Leinster refs in their big games over the last few years, maybe there is a shortage of quality refs from other provinces but that seems like a poor excuse."
What makes you think a 'Leinster' man would be happy for Dublin to win?

realdub (Dublin) - Posts:6186 - 10/08/2017 23:16:28   2032184

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Replying To neverright:  "Maybe some of the Tyrone posters could tell us how many of the Dublin starters would, in their opinion, get into the Tyrone starting team."
Or how many of the Tyrone team would make the Dublin team?

IrishGael3 (USA) - Posts:922 - 10/08/2017 23:35:03   2032186

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Replying To mightydubs:  "Cavanagh at midfield and maybe harte hf that would be it, can't see us getting caught like 2014 or Tyrone having enough up front as Dublin will protect the scoring zone"
Ok keeper Cluxton has that one - Tyrone FBL bar McCrory who I would have McMahon, half backline again I would have 2 Tyrone McCann and Hampsey with McCaffrey from Dubs. Midfield Cavanagh and Fenton. Half forward line Kilkenny Harte and Donnelly so 2 Tyrone . FFL Rock Mannion and Bradley - 2 Dubs. So for me 7 Dubs v 8 Tyrone!

IrishGael3 (USA) - Posts:922 - 10/08/2017 23:45:19   2032187

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There is definately a whiff of the 2000's Tyrone/Kerry games about this match. There is an expectant air of "Tyrone WON'T beat Dublin, Tyrone CAN'T beat Dublin, it just isn't fathomable". I'll guess Mickey Harte and Tyrone are lapping up the massive underdog label applied to them. They play their best football and put up their best performances when they are disrespected and totally written off. Mickey is the master of taking advantage of this.....his record shows it.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts:8707 - 11/08/2017 00:12:50   2032190

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Would love to have seen a game between this Dublin team at its heights/best and the Tyrone team of the noughties, I know it can only be fiction but who'd win folks? I honestly couldn't call it.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts:6186 - 11/08/2017 03:52:07   2032204

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