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Replying To Jackeen: "Indeed or say Kerry's riches compared to Clare." Our funding has been the same level as Clare actually quite a bit lower on a per capita basis
KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts: 280 - 22/03/2017 19:18:27
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Replying To KYTotalFootball: "Ye couldn't us for over 30 years and suffered some real hammerings yet only now its 1 sided - I would wait a while before making that proclamation
The most ye beat us was 7 points and that included 2 injury time goals , but if you want to keep running us down by all means do" Dublin didnt play Kerry in the championship from 1985 - 2001 mate. So ill take the All Ireland snd otyher silverware we won during that time and you can have the not playing Dublin record cup.
And your wrong, Dublin beat Kerry very recently by Dublin 2-18 Kerry 0-13.
Anyhow my apologies i didn't mean to run Kerry football down, as i said i have a lot of respect for Kerry as a historically successful football county, i was just elaborating on another posters assertion of the standard of football droping in Kerry, no offence intended.
Anyway i would be interested in hearing the Kerry lads opinions on the good point Donegalman, would you lads be willing to forgo some of the Kerrygroup money or central funding to help the likes of Waterford etc?
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 22/03/2017 19:24:54
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "Two ways of looking at it The Username. 1. Dublin have raised the standard, possibly, probably. They have good squad depth and strong players in every position. They have used sports science and training methods to great effect as well.
2. Standards have dropped. There is absolutely no doubt about this in my mind. How many of the current Kerry, Tyrone, Cork or Armagh teams would get in their 00's sides. A handful in each case I'd guess, if even, and all three have serious weak spots at the minute. If their 00's equivalents were around today would Dublin have 4 titles from the last 6? Very very doubtful in my opinion. Yes they look incredible at times but the opposition in their way isn't great in all fairness. Mayo have been decent and Donegal were class for one year but outside that?
Truth is somewhere in the middle maybe. This Dublin side will go down as one of the best ever. There can never be a definitive best team ever as it's purely down to opinion. If Dublin win the next 10 in a row ill probably still never concede they are the best ever for example :)
As for the rural Ireland stuff, teams are cyclical and most of them outside Dublin are struggling a bit at county level at the moment. It can change quickly. Donegal look to be putting a nice young side together and Cork, Tyrone, Mayo and Kerry are always going to be around. The OP is just stirring, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have some sort of point." We've had this debate before mate and i think its one we wont agree on, obviously Kerry lads think the 00s was a golden age of football when i think the reality to the objective eye is that it wasnt really. Equally Dublin will feel this is a golden age, while i wholly understand its difficult for other counties not experiencing success to lament. It does beg the question though if the standard is so low why are one team so dominant. I would assert the road block is Dublin, if not for Dublin we would be talking about great Kerry and Mayo teams of the teens and maybe a very competitive era of you guys slugging it out, with Donegal and Tyrone in the mix. Its cool if you disagree, as lets be honest we are both biased.
Just to mention though on your second point its swings and roundabouts, how many of the Mayo team would get into 00s team, Donegal similarlily, i can think of even a few Kerry lads who would be in with a shout of the 00s team - hell some are still playing and id say JOB and Geaney would feel hard done by to make the bench. I also think Tyrone are a great challenge for us this year, i really hope both we and they get to the league final this year, would really relish another game against them before the championship.
Listen if its a debate between Kerry and Dublin lads will never reach conclusion their is a spectrum of a very high standard being raised - right the way down to regression of football nationally. Different lads from different counties will have different opinions of course as its self serving for our county allegiance.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 22/03/2017 19:38:43
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "Two ways of looking at it The Username. 1. Dublin have raised the standard, possibly, probably. They have good squad depth and strong players in every position. They have used sports science and training methods to great effect as well.
2. Standards have dropped. There is absolutely no doubt about this in my mind. How many of the current Kerry, Tyrone, Cork or Armagh teams would get in their 00's sides. A handful in each case I'd guess, if even, and all three have serious weak spots at the minute. If their 00's equivalents were around today would Dublin have 4 titles from the last 6? Very very doubtful in my opinion. Yes they look incredible at times but the opposition in their way isn't great in all fairness. Mayo have been decent and Donegal were class for one year but outside that?
Truth is somewhere in the middle maybe. This Dublin side will go down as one of the best ever. There can never be a definitive best team ever as it's purely down to opinion. If Dublin win the next 10 in a row ill probably still never concede they are the best ever for example :)
As for the rural Ireland stuff, teams are cyclical and most of them outside Dublin are struggling a bit at county level at the moment. It can change quickly. Donegal look to be putting a nice young side together and Cork, Tyrone, Mayo and Kerry are always going to be around. The OP is just stirring, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have some sort of point." Oh meant to say mate, i enjoyed reading your pot/s they are always well balanced reasoned and fair, your one of the lads opinions id take on here seriously and respect a lot. Best of luck in the coming year, i know your confident!
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 22/03/2017 19:42:43
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Again, this thread was supposed to be a big smoke free zone! With the cyclical nature of things, it's terrible timing that all rural inter-county teams aren't in a good place. You'd half expect Galway and/or Meath in the better part of their cycles.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7824 - 22/03/2017 20:06:08
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Replying To TheUsername: "We've had this debate before mate and i think its one we wont agree on, obviously Kerry lads think the 00s was a golden age of football when i think the reality to the objective eye is that it wasnt really. Equally Dublin will feel this is a golden age, while i wholly understand its difficult for other counties not experiencing success to lament. It does beg the question though if the standard is so low why are one team so dominant. I would assert the road block is Dublin, if not for Dublin we would be talking about great Kerry and Mayo teams of the teens and maybe a very competitive era of you guys slugging it out, with Donegal and Tyrone in the mix. Its cool if you disagree, as lets be honest we are both biased.
Just to mention though on your second point its swings and roundabouts, how many of the Mayo team would get into 00s team, Donegal similarlily, i can think of even a few Kerry lads who would be in with a shout of the 00s team - hell some are still playing and id say JOB and Geaney would feel hard done by to make the bench. I also think Tyrone are a great challenge for us this year, i really hope both we and they get to the league final this year, would really relish another game against them before the championship.
Listen if its a debate between Kerry and Dublin lads will never reach conclusion their is a spectrum of a very high standard being raised - right the way down to regression of football nationally. Different lads from different counties will have different opinions of course as its self serving for our county allegiance." "If their 00's equivalents were around today would Dublin have 4 titles from the last 6? Very very doubtful in my opinion."
That argument is crazy you could say that about any era. If this Dublin team was around in 00''s Kerry would not have had walk overs in the 04,06 and 07 finals. Same for Kerry team in the 80's when they got a free pass to the All-Ireland semi final every year for the guts of 15 years.. They probably had to win one game at the right time of year to win an All-Ireland.
jacktheDub (Dublin) - Posts: 944 - 22/03/2017 20:31:18
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Replying To TheUsername: "Dublin didnt play Kerry in the championship from 1985 - 2001 mate. So ill take the All Ireland snd otyher silverware we won during that time and you can have the not playing Dublin record cup.
And your wrong, Dublin beat Kerry very recently by Dublin 2-18 Kerry 0-13.
Anyhow my apologies i didn't mean to run Kerry football down, as i said i have a lot of respect for Kerry as a historically successful football county, i was just elaborating on another posters assertion of the standard of football droping in Kerry, no offence intended.
Anyway i would be interested in hearing the Kerry lads opinions on the good point Donegalman, would you lads be willing to forgo some of the Kerrygroup money or central funding to help the likes of Waterford etc?" Dublin failed to beat Kerry in 11 Championship games in a row (all but 2 of which were in dublin) quite a few were real trimmings
OK you reference a league game , its the Championship that matters , League Finals are forgotten the moment they are won. Plus the likes of Kerry + Mayo aren't in the position to peak / be in a strong physical condition in March/April as the last 5/6 years have shown. Anyone writing Mayo off right now are completely foolish
You don't need to apologise for anything you say as long as it isn't personal or abusive
Regarding last point - we are amongst the lowest in Funding €19 per capita link Waterford have received over twice that in the last 5 years.
My opinion is that each team should spend the same amount on their respective IC teams taking into account how long a team is in the championship and travel expenses ( the likes of Mayo, Kerry, Donegal would obviously be much much high than Kildare, Meath, Dublin etc)
KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts: 280 - 22/03/2017 20:49:22
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Replying To KYTotalFootball: "Dublin failed to beat Kerry in 11 Championship games in a row (all but 2 of which were in dublin) quite a few were real trimmings OK you reference a league game , its the Championship that matters , League Finals are forgotten the moment they are won. Plus the likes of Kerry + Mayo aren't in the position to peak / be in a strong physical condition in March/April as the last 5/6 years have shown. Anyone writing Mayo off right now are completely foolish You don't need to apologise for anything you say as long as it isn't personal or abusive Regarding last point - we are amongst the lowest in Funding €19 per capita link Waterford have received over twice that in the last 5 years. My opinion is that each team should spend the same amount on their respective IC teams taking into account how long a team is in the championship and travel expenses ( the likes of Mayo, Kerry, Donegal would obviously be much much high than Kildare, Meath, Dublin etc)"
You can decide what results you consider worthy to suit your arguement mate, it doesn't change the fact that they happened.
I think the point was on collective funding and sponsorship mate, Kerrygroup are very generous to the Kerry county team, I think the premise isn't in comparative funding but more in the spirit of extra funding to help counties develop from a low ebb. You make a good point though, Clare certainly is a renowned dual county, Waterford are a top hurling county, maybe the caveat should be for football development.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 22/03/2017 21:15:08
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Replying To TheUsername: " Replying To KYTotalFootball: "Dublin failed to beat Kerry in 11 Championship games in a row (all but 2 of which were in dublin) quite a few were real trimmings OK you reference a league game , its the Championship that matters , League Finals are forgotten the moment they are won. Plus the likes of Kerry + Mayo aren't in the position to peak / be in a strong physical condition in March/April as the last 5/6 years have shown. Anyone writing Mayo off right now are completely foolish You don't need to apologise for anything you say as long as it isn't personal or abusive Regarding last point - we are amongst the lowest in Funding €19 per capita link Waterford have received over twice that in the last 5 years. My opinion is that each team should spend the same amount on their respective IC teams taking into account how long a team is in the championship and travel expenses ( the likes of Mayo, Kerry, Donegal would obviously be much much high than Kildare, Meath, Dublin etc)" Think you wrong again mate, I think your longest winning streak was 8 games consecutively the first of which was 77 the last in 09, like I said it's hardly representative as Dublin didn't play Kerry in that time between 85 and 01. Us winning an all Ireland' in between. You can decide what results you consider worthy to suit your arguement mate, it doesn't change the fact that they happened. I think the point was on collective funding and sponsorship mate, Kerrygroup are very generous to the Kerry county team, I think the premise isn't in comparative funding but more in the spirit of extra funding to help counties develop from a low ebb. You make a good point though, Clare certainly is a renowned dual county, Waterford are a top hurling county, maybe the caveat should be for football development."
The League is a trial run for the Championship to see who might cope in the Summer and to those who definitely won't , you cant be seriously trying to suggest its anywhere in the same stratosphere as the Championship. For example I couldn't off the top of my head say who won the 2012 League or who they beat in the Final whereas I could reel of AI Winners who they beat , what score was etc etc. for the last 35-40 years without hesitation
Believe me I know loads of people who have worked for Kerry Group and they are the most prudent company I have ever come across. They certainly won't spend money for the sake of it - they will pay the market value and no more. I have absolutely no problem with Dublin's list of sponsors - the issue is the huge funding on top of it.
They don't need it, they have the sponsorship to easily cover the youth development and have plenty left over. Every € the GAA gives Dublin is a € the developing counties who desperately require don't get.
KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts: 280 - 22/03/2017 21:51:03
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Replying To jacktheDub: ""If their 00's equivalents were around today would Dublin have 4 titles from the last 6? Very very doubtful in my opinion."
That argument is crazy you could say that about any era. If this Dublin team was around in 00''s Kerry would not have had walk overs in the 04,06 and 07 finals. Same for Kerry team in the 80's when they got a free pass to the All-Ireland semi final every year for the guts of 15 years.. They probably had to win one game at the right time of year to win an All-Ireland." You can talk about walkovers but Kerry had some huge battles on the way to those finals and if Tyrone weren't around at that stage there is a very real chance we'd have done five or even six on the trot. Would that have made Kerry of the 00's the best ever?
Dublins main nemesis since 11 has been a good (far from great) Mayo. When Kerry win those type of All Irelands they are walkovers, soft, handy, whatever phrase you want to use really. I posted elsewhere at the start of last year that I couldn't see a winner outside Dublin purely due to the paucity of the opposition, and in the end they fell over the line quite unconvincingly IMO after two tough games with Mayo. Let's not forget how poor they were in that first game.
Not taking anything away from Dublin btw and I doubt they are finished, far from it. They are most definitely right up there with the best ever and are one of the most balanced sides I have ever seen. It would be fantastic if we could see some of the chasing pack raise it though and have a genuine race for Sam again.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 22/03/2017 21:56:59
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Lets put the 00s in perspective for a minute.
Kerry won 5
Tyrone won 3
Armagh won 1
Galway won 1
Mayo also were in 2 finals
This decade
Dublin 4
Kerry 1
Donegal 1
Cork 1
Mayo were also in 2 finals
Down were in a final in 2010
There are 3 years left for a rural team to win 1 all ireland to balance the books to almost carbon copy the 00s. A team extra competed in this decade in finals than the 00s.
Most importantly....5 of the 10 all irelands of the 00s were won courtesy of the back door. This decade, the provincial winners have all gone on to win the all Ireland.
It's a very big claim to make to say that if a tyrone team or a kerry team of the 00's were around today, they would be beating the Dubs with this legacy of the back door.
I feel that people should reflect and think before posting or starting threads when they are fairly dubious. Unless of course, they are just trying to shorten the end of the winter months for themselves.......;)
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 22/03/2017 23:21:37
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Replying To Donegalman: "Lets put the 00s in perspective for a minute.
Kerry won 5
Tyrone won 3
Armagh won 1
Galway won 1
Mayo also were in 2 finals
This decade
Dublin 4
Kerry 1
Donegal 1
Cork 1
Mayo were also in 2 finals
Down were in a final in 2010
There are 3 years left for a rural team to win 1 all ireland to balance the books to almost carbon copy the 00s. A team extra competed in this decade in finals than the 00s.
Most importantly....5 of the 10 all irelands of the 00s were won courtesy of the back door. This decade, the provincial winners have all gone on to win the all Ireland.
It's a very big claim to make to say that if a tyrone team or a kerry team of the 00's were around today, they would be beating the Dubs with this legacy of the back door.
I feel that people should reflect and think before posting or starting threads when they are fairly dubious. Unless of course, they are just trying to shorten the end of the winter months for themselves.......;)" In the naughties Cork got to a few finals as did Armagh, we had an all Ulster and 2 all Munster allireland finals teams like Monaghan Wexford and Fermanagh knocking or nearly knocking out big teams . It was a much better decade then this 1 ,
Now I know you'll have a fondness for this decade coz Donegal won an allireland and got to another final but there are too many teams in transition or in decline.
Would you say Kerry and Tyrone are better teams now than in the naughties?
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 23/03/2017 00:14:46
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Replying To Donegalman: "Lets put the 00s in perspective for a minute.
Kerry won 5
Tyrone won 3
Armagh won 1
Galway won 1
Mayo also were in 2 finals
This decade
Dublin 4
Kerry 1
Donegal 1
Cork 1
Mayo were also in 2 finals
Down were in a final in 2010
There are 3 years left for a rural team to win 1 all ireland to balance the books to almost carbon copy the 00s. A team extra competed in this decade in finals than the 00s.
Most importantly....5 of the 10 all irelands of the 00s were won courtesy of the back door. This decade, the provincial winners have all gone on to win the all Ireland.
It's a very big claim to make to say that if a tyrone team or a kerry team of the 00's were around today, they would be beating the Dubs with this legacy of the back door.
I feel that people should reflect and think before posting or starting threads when they are fairly dubious. Unless of course, they are just trying to shorten the end of the winter months for themselves.......;)" Not sure how the back door is relevant at all actually. Kerry had an excellent Cork side to contend with every year and Ulster was a dogfight every year. If the Dubs tried to lose a game in Leinster now I doubt they could.
It's all about the level of competition you face in august and September. To say that has no bearing on where Sam ends up is bizarre quite frankly but each to their own.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 23/03/2017 08:05:45
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Replying To KYTotalFootball: "Our funding has been the same level as Clare actually quite a bit lower on a per capita basis" Riches in total from all sources. Not just funding since that's how your capital city is being judged. Sponsorship money, money from the states etc. Not just Clare either Tipp & Waterford.
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 23/03/2017 09:50:45
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Listen it's as easy to prove the following as it is to prove several points being made on this thread...
Tyrone and Kerry got lucky that this Dublin team weren't around in the 00's
They wouldn't have had in anywhere near their level of success
This is the best Dublin team of all time, the Dublin team of the 00's played in the worst period see in Dublin GAA history (that's a fact)
As motioned we'd even have a 2nd chance to come back and improve
Just like Tyrone and Kerry had winning through the back door
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 23/03/2017 10:35:26
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Saying that players from now wouldn't make a team from years before is also pointless. Counties in general will come in cycles, some more regular than others (Dubs /Kerry). Teams are always getting better or getting worse, but everyone puts our their team on a given day and does their best. That why we play
Comparing decades like for like is pointless. Ten years is a long time in football, different styles, some counties up, some down, pros and cons to every decade. We all have our personal favourites.
10's good = 4 or 5 teams really playing at the top level and competing with each other, 10's bad = some very defensive football
00's good = Kerry and Tyrone taking the game to a new level, 00's bad = everyone else miles behind Kerry & Tyrone in the second half of the decade
90's good = new teams breaking through & still open football, 90's bad = Hard to think if anything bad about the 90's!
himachechy (Donegal) - Posts: 293 - 23/03/2017 10:46:07
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Replying To jimbodub: "Listen it's as easy to prove the following as it is to prove several points being made on this thread...
Tyrone and Kerry got lucky that this Dublin team weren't around in the 00's
They wouldn't have had in anywhere near their level of success
This is the best Dublin team of all time, the Dublin team of the 00's played in the worst period see in Dublin GAA history (that's a fact)
As motioned we'd even have a 2nd chance to come back and improve
Just like Tyrone and Kerry had winning through the back door" You are of course correct. It's futile comparing eras.
The only thing that annoys me a bit is when people try to devalue Kerry's previous success by saying we play in a weak province and get walkover finals against Mayo etc etc. I have seen several Dublin posters in particular say that recently. I'm sure you can see the irony in it.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 23/03/2017 11:04:38
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Replying To himachechy: "Saying that players from now wouldn't make a team from years before is also pointless. Counties in general will come in cycles, some more regular than others (Dubs /Kerry). Teams are always getting better or getting worse, but everyone puts our their team on a given day and does their best. That why we play
Comparing decades like for like is pointless. Ten years is a long time in football, different styles, some counties up, some down, pros and cons to every decade. We all have our personal favourites.
10's good = 4 or 5 teams really playing at the top level and competing with each other, 10's bad = some very defensive football
00's good = Kerry and Tyrone taking the game to a new level, 00's bad = everyone else miles behind Kerry & Tyrone in the second half of the decade
90's good = new teams breaking through & still open football, 90's bad = Hard to think if anything bad about the 90's!" Absolutely agree with this
Very good post
Why on earth some are even entertaining this line of noise is beyond me
It's as if they are purposely looking for an excuse to try and play down Dublin's achievements or something
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 23/03/2017 11:31:49
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "In the naughties Cork got to a few finals as did Armagh, we had an all Ulster and 2 all Munster allireland finals teams like Monaghan Wexford and Fermanagh knocking or nearly knocking out big teams . It was a much better decade then this 1 ,
Now I know you'll have a fondness for this decade coz Donegal won an allireland and got to another final but there are too many teams in transition or in decline.
Would you say Kerry and Tyrone are better teams now than in the naughties?" I mentioned Armagh and cork in that list. Monaghan never won a game in croke park ever until 2015. Of the other 2 teams, Fermanagh and Wexford beat Armagh to get to semis. A bit like the progress of Tipp in 2016 who also reached semis. Will we mention Clare last year and give them respect too just to tickle legendz belly ;).
It's shaping up very similarly in ways. It's difficult to assess who the 2nd best team of the 00s are with all Irelands won as a yardstick but I would fancy Kerry to win one in the next 3 which would leave the dubs winning 6 most likely. As for teams making breakthrough I would fancy a Leinster team to knock on the door this year but as it stands we are only guessing there.
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 23/03/2017 11:32:48
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "You are of course correct. It's futile comparing eras.
The only thing that annoys me a bit is when people try to devalue Kerry's previous success by saying we play in a weak province and get walkover finals against Mayo etc etc. I have seen several Dublin posters in particular say that recently. I'm sure you can see the irony in it." You do play in a small hurling first province and had a golden ticket to a semi-final for 115 years
There was very little in your way, Kerry had one foot in a semi-final before a ball was kicked
Geographical advantages is a real thing.
It's an advantage you maximised by producing excellent players off the back of so much winning
Winning breeds winning
That can never be taken away
Kerry have produced excellent, top shelf, outstanding footballer's in a province dominated by hurling and have used it brilliantly to their advantage for a long time.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 23/03/2017 11:37:21
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