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Replying To poguemahone: "Class. I love the way Meath are now in same bracket as Kildare :)
"but the days of Dublin thrashing teams like Kildare and Meath might be a thing of the past"....Possibly but to find out if this is true for Meath, ye will have to stop getting thrashed by the Lilies first so you can test the Dubs." That's true Poguemahone
Royal.Legend (Meath) - Posts: 665 - 29/06/2017 22:29:11
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Replying To KildareKelly: "A bit to go indeed poguemahone. I don't think anyone in Kildare thinks we will actually win. What will be interesting is finding out how far we still have to go. My heart says not far, my head says we've come a long way (we are clearer a much better team this year, that's not even debatable for me) but still a long way off the Dubs!" This might sound mental to you but i think we can actually win. For god sake Dublin are not superhuman.
11jm11 (Kildare) - Posts: 365 - 30/06/2017 05:22:15
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Replying To Royal.Legend: "Your under 21 team prob has a bigger budget then meaths senior team ffs, which is the real reason for dublins superiority over Leinster counties over the last decade, but at long last the Leinster council have decided not to give all their funds to Dublin, other county's are finally getting some badly needed money which should begin to close the gap, that and of course dublins ageing senior team," The outfield on the Dublin team that started against Westmeath had an average age of 25.35 (include Cluxton and it's 26.00).
#Ancient!
Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 30/06/2017 12:24:13
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Replying To KildareKelly: "A bit to go indeed poguemahone. I don't think anyone in Kildare thinks we will actually win. What will be interesting is finding out how far we still have to go. My heart says not far, my head says we've come a long way (we are clearer a much better team this year, that's not even debatable for me) but still a long way off the Dubs!" Yes walking before running. The goal for Kildare (or Meath, WM or whoever) should be to establish themselves as the second best team in Leinster. Getting to a final is the starting point. That's not to say that a decent team can't beat Dublin on any given day but Kildare need to show they are going to be consistent each year and steadily improving. Some very good scores in the Kildare- Meath game so there are obviously decent players around. Against a Dublin or any of the top 4 teams, teams have to bring the whole package. Some show great forward play but an exposed defence or vice versa, the blanket with little threat going forward.
Interesting to see how Kildare approach the final. To me, they are not suited to blanket type plan but can't be as open as WM or it'll be over very quickly. You reckon they'll put the emphasis on attack?
poguemahone (Dublin) - Posts: 365 - 30/06/2017 12:39:36
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Fair play to you 11jm11. I'd love you to be right !
KildareKelly (Kildare) - Posts: 593 - 30/06/2017 12:45:32
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Replying To poguemahone: "Yes walking before running. The goal for Kildare (or Meath, WM or whoever) should be to establish themselves as the second best team in Leinster. Getting to a final is the starting point. That's not to say that a decent team can't beat Dublin on any given day but Kildare need to show they are going to be consistent each year and steadily improving. Some very good scores in the Kildare- Meath game so there are obviously decent players around. Against a Dublin or any of the top 4 teams, teams have to bring the whole package. Some show great forward play but an exposed defence or vice versa, the blanket with little threat going forward.
Interesting to see how Kildare approach the final. To me, they are not suited to blanket type plan but can't be as open as WM or it'll be over very quickly. You reckon they'll put the emphasis on attack?" I think we'll keep the style of play we have now. Kick long to two good midfielders and try win primary possession or the breaking ball which we have improved at. I can't see us going the blanket defense route as we are useless at it, as are most Leinster teams. We have come on a lot using the current style of play, I think we shouldn't abandon it for one game, given that no matter what happens we will have a game beyond the final anyway. I'd put our faith in what we are doing. I can't see us being as open as Westmeath, I think Cian will have learned from that game as well as our own past failures. This Kildare team is very much developing, promotion and a Leinster final appearance was probably our goal at the start of the year. Just have to see now how much more we can get out of it.
kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 30/06/2017 13:40:29
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I agree. I don't think we'll go ultra defensive. When you see how much Lyons, Hyland & Cribbin add going forward it makes no sense for them to just sit. Then again, it's not every day Kildare will come up against a team like Dublin. I think Cian will make some allowance for them but not go very defensive. The most likely option is asking Fergal Conway to drop deeper to help out between midfield & half backs, moving McNally to wing forward & going with a 2 man full forward line.
Honestly though, v Dublin, retaining your composure & discipline during the onslaught is more important than whatever tactics you choose. If you panic and/or get disheartened then it could be any score. Staying mentally strong is the key.
KildareKelly (Kildare) - Posts: 593 - 30/06/2017 19:54:56
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Replying To Kurt_Angle: "The outfield on the Dublin team that started against Westmeath had an average age of 25.35 (include Cluxton and it's 26.00).
#Ancient!" Exactly - an average of 26 including our golden oldie Clucko is not bad at all.
But sure let them keep thinking we are nearly over the hill.
They need some self perceived crumbs of comfort. ;o)
Some of our young lads are already proving they will make the required standard.
Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3732 - 30/06/2017 20:04:39
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Replying To Fionn: "Exactly - an average of 26 including our golden oldie Clucko is not bad at all.
But sure let them keep thinking we are nearly over the hill.
They need some self perceived crumbs of comfort. ;o)
Some of our young lads are already proving they will make the required standard." The transition of the team is something that doesn't get a lot of attention, there tends to be a static narrative around "this Dublin team" truth is the team in unrecognisable from the team of 2011 and Dublin have been at the vanguard of integrating youth into the team. To transition the team and still win all irelands is a great achievement. Every year there are new young players in the team. Conuties talk about transition and building, progress in the years ahead but Dublin have really been to the forefront of bringing young players in and giving them opportunists. Last Sunday so no Connolly, Flynn, Brogan, MDM, Philly, Bastick or Maccer start.
This year i think is our biggest challenge given the relative youth that is now in the team and panel, by the looks of it we will be competitive. Kildare will be a great challenge for this young team.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 01/07/2017 10:39:09
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I don't see this being an where as easy for Dublin as the Westmeath fiasco.
Kildare are a fitter, more physical and athletic team and will give Dublin a game of it for 50 minutes or more I'd imagine but overall they are not good enough yet I think. Now, it's not impossible I know and we don't really know where Dublin are at yet as they have not been tested but they should run out winners by 7-8 points for me.
catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 01/07/2017 11:28:44
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Great teams have a top coach and above all they have great players. This Dublin team do have more resources than others, however they do have more top class players than anyone. I reckon they'll make it three in a row but I hope Kildare is a test along that road. Cian ONeill is turning into a top coach and seems to know how to maximise potential, I feel pride coming back to the jersey and hope that goes beyond July 16th. Nice to get lads returning from their walkabout. Aprehensive but positive. I'd be hoping we get a ref who knows what it's about that chap against Westmeath was one of those refs that doesn't understand the game. Let it flow from the start. Forwards and backs quickly get to an understanding of what's a foul and what's a touch. I heard that there was no frees in our last game until the 14th minute- that's down to the refs attitude
jonno (Kildare) - Posts: 260 - 01/07/2017 14:41:35
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Replying To jonno: "Great teams have a top coach and above all they have great players. This Dublin team do have more resources than others, however they do have more top class players than anyone. I reckon they'll make it three in a row but I hope Kildare is a test along that road. Cian ONeill is turning into a top coach and seems to know how to maximise potential, I feel pride coming back to the jersey and hope that goes beyond July 16th. Nice to get lads returning from their walkabout. Aprehensive but positive. I'd be hoping we get a ref who knows what it's about that chap against Westmeath was one of those refs that doesn't understand the game. Let it flow from the start. Forwards and backs quickly get to an understanding of what's a foul and what's a touch. I heard that there was no frees in our last game until the 14th minute- that's down to the refs attitude" Or just good tackling?
JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 01/07/2017 15:29:58
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To those saying Dublin are getting carried away by their 31 point win. Don't think so. My confidence is based on losing 1 game in 2 years. Winning Leinster every year under gavin. 3 of the last 4 all Irelands and generally watching this Dublin team in years gone by, up until and including Westmeath last week
People are also very quick to talk up Kildare putting it up to Dublin on the back of a handy victory over a very average Meath team who where absolutely out on their feet very early doors in their game. Not exactly a great acid test. Also didn't help that all of Meaths restarts where at pedestrian pace being lauched into the middle where Kildare quite clearly had the advantage of two better and bigger fielders over Meath, Tactically Meath where so niave at times it was actually frightening to witness first hand. Dublin wont allow Kildare that luxury. Dublin have played much better teams than Kildare consistently for years now, They are well ahead in terms of fitness, class, power, experience, know how, game intelligence etc and no amount of mickey mouse fads like those goggle things will be able to prepare Kildare for this Dublin side... Or even a Tyrone or a Kerry. Its alright beating fellow D2 teams in scintillating heat who clearly aren't a match for ya, but doing it to the best team there is this year, With a bunch of players who are trying to prove their worth, players like Lowndes, Mannion, Scully, etc, a Team who are so professional in their whole mentality and approach, well, that's a different ball game altogether.
Dublin are what they are, a machine. A well oiled, machine. They wont be getting distracted by any media talk or any outside influence, They will go into the game like they do any other and they wont treat Kildare any different to Kerry, Mayo et al, They will prepare diligently, there will be ZERO chance of complacency, every aspect of Kildares gameplan will be methodically prepared for and they wont be shocked by anything Kildare throw at them and will simply adapt to what they put up against us. They will have prepared for every scenario, And they will just take it and respond in kind. You want to get men back ? Fine we will be patient and go over you. Wanna attack us ? We will just outscore you. Itll be like a giant snake that's just caught a family pet, ultimately the beast will overpower and strangle the life out of its prey. No matter how much of a fight the little pet puts up, ultimately itll be in vein because the beast is just too strong, Right now, Dublin are that beast.
This Dublin team are not unbeatable. We are not superhuman. We may not even win the all Ireland infact I expect we wont, But Itll take an exceptional team to beat us, Kildare.. while they are progressing, they are still miles off us, and will likely be looking at the qualifers after July 16. It wont be a 31 point win, but Dublin will comfortably prevail in the end and that's not a dig at Kildare, its just in my opinion a view on where both teams are at right now. No doubt Kildare are going in the right direction but Dublin are still absolutely worlds apart. People may not like me saying that but its the truth.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 01/07/2017 15:36:05
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Replying To jonno: "Great teams have a top coach and above all they have great players. This Dublin team do have more resources than others, however they do have more top class players than anyone. I reckon they'll make it three in a row but I hope Kildare is a test along that road. Cian ONeill is turning into a top coach and seems to know how to maximise potential, I feel pride coming back to the jersey and hope that goes beyond July 16th. Nice to get lads returning from their walkabout. Aprehensive but positive. I'd be hoping we get a ref who knows what it's about that chap against Westmeath was one of those refs that doesn't understand the game. Let it flow from the start. Forwards and backs quickly get to an understanding of what's a foul and what's a touch. I heard that there was no frees in our last game until the 14th minute- that's down to the refs attitude" If I was Kildare id be absolutely hoping that what you say about the ref is not the case.
Id want the ref blowing up everything. Chances are if there are no frees especially conceded by kildare for 15 minutes, Its cause they cant get a glove on Dublin..
The dogs on the street know that Dublin is all about momentum and if you stop their momentum and frustrate them its part of the puzzle to beat them. If you get a ref that lets every single thing flow, Dublin will smell blood and the game will literally be over before its even begun.
A referee that leaves his whistle at home suits Dublin more than anyone else. Trust me.
If Kildare have any hope of beating Dublin (and in my view, they don't, sorry) then they simply have to stop Dublin or the game gaining any kind of momentum.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 01/07/2017 15:41:04
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Replying To waynoI: "To those saying Dublin are getting carried away by their 31 point win. Don't think so. My confidence is based on losing 1 game in 2 years. Winning Leinster every year under gavin. 3 of the last 4 all Irelands and generally watching this Dublin team in years gone by, up until and including Westmeath last week
People are also very quick to talk up Kildare putting it up to Dublin on the back of a handy victory over a very average Meath team who where absolutely out on their feet very early doors in their game. Not exactly a great acid test. Also didn't help that all of Meaths restarts where at pedestrian pace being lauched into the middle where Kildare quite clearly had the advantage of two better and bigger fielders over Meath, Tactically Meath where so niave at times it was actually frightening to witness first hand. Dublin wont allow Kildare that luxury. Dublin have played much better teams than Kildare consistently for years now, They are well ahead in terms of fitness, class, power, experience, know how, game intelligence etc and no amount of mickey mouse fads like those goggle things will be able to prepare Kildare for this Dublin side... Or even a Tyrone or a Kerry. Its alright beating fellow D2 teams in scintillating heat who clearly aren't a match for ya, but doing it to the best team there is this year, With a bunch of players who are trying to prove their worth, players like Lowndes, Mannion, Scully, etc, a Team who are so professional in their whole mentality and approach, well, that's a different ball game altogether.
Dublin are what they are, a machine. A well oiled, machine. They wont be getting distracted by any media talk or any outside influence, They will go into the game like they do any other and they wont treat Kildare any different to Kerry, Mayo et al, They will prepare diligently, there will be ZERO chance of complacency, every aspect of Kildares gameplan will be methodically prepared for and they wont be shocked by anything Kildare throw at them and will simply adapt to what they put up against us. They will have prepared for every scenario, And they will just take it and respond in kind. You want to get men back ? Fine we will be patient and go over you. Wanna attack us ? We will just outscore you. Itll be like a giant snake that's just caught a family pet, ultimately the beast will overpower and strangle the life out of its prey. No matter how much of a fight the little pet puts up, ultimately itll be in vein because the beast is just too strong, Right now, Dublin are that beast.
This Dublin team are not unbeatable. We are not superhuman. We may not even win the all Ireland infact I expect we wont, But Itll take an exceptional team to beat us, Kildare.. while they are progressing, they are still miles off us, and will likely be looking at the qualifers after July 16. It wont be a 31 point win, but Dublin will comfortably prevail in the end and that's not a dig at Kildare, its just in my opinion a view on where both teams are at right now. No doubt Kildare are going in the right direction but Dublin are still absolutely worlds apart. People may not like me saying that but its the truth." Will your post be as long and ridiculous as this one when Kildare beat ye in two weeks time
Royal.Legend (Meath) - Posts: 665 - 01/07/2017 16:07:45
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Not gonna happen .
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 01/07/2017 17:06:17
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Replying To Royal.Legend: "Will your post be as long and ridiculous as this one when Kildare beat ye in two weeks time" Royal you're just hoping Kildare do your dirty work for you because Meath wouldn't have had any Chance against Dublin in fact I'd say Westmeath gave us a better test than Meath would have!
DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 932 - 01/07/2017 17:17:46
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Replying To DUBJOHN: "Royal you're just hoping Kildare do your dirty work for you because Meath wouldn't have had any Chance against Dublin in fact I'd say Westmeath gave us a better test than Meath would have!" dubjohn read the title of the tread Kildare v Dublin what's your opinion of that game, we'll discuss meath v Dublin when ever they meet in the future
Royal.Legend (Meath) - Posts: 665 - 02/07/2017 16:23:11
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Replying To poguemahone: "Yes walking before running. The goal for Kildare (or Meath, WM or whoever) should be to establish themselves as the second best team in Leinster. Getting to a final is the starting point. That's not to say that a decent team can't beat Dublin on any given day but Kildare need to show they are going to be consistent each year and steadily improving. Some very good scores in the Kildare- Meath game so there are obviously decent players around. Against a Dublin or any of the top 4 teams, teams have to bring the whole package. Some show great forward play but an exposed defence or vice versa, the blanket with little threat going forward.
Interesting to see how Kildare approach the final. To me, they are not suited to blanket type plan but can't be as open as WM or it'll be over very quickly. You reckon they'll put the emphasis on attack?" Having watched Kildare all year I dont think we will change our game plan and will play an attacking game keeping 5 forwards up all the time and attacking with pace from the back. It is effective and we are very systematic and confident in the system we play. We have very good man markers in lyons, hyland, k cribbin, while eoin doyle at centre back sits deep as a sweeper and is a good stopper, conway from wing forward has a great work rate and will drop back to cover, (our work rate overall as a team has been our most impressive trait) kildare will push up on cluxtons kickouts and make him kick long and we will enjoy some success at midfield., In Flynn and Brophy we have 2 inside forwards 6 '3 and 6' 4' with genuine pace power and skill who will cause problems for anyone they meet and niall kelly at 11 to supply the bullets, Can we win? Against most teams we have a chance, Against Dublin going for 7 leinsters and 3 all Irelands in a row, ? only if they have a very bad day at the office, Dublin are too professional, too battle hardened, too street wise, too clinical, too mobile, too skilfull, we are not at that level, but i will travel in hope and hope to see kildare have no inhibitions and throw the kitchen sink at it
NorthKildare (Kildare) - Posts: 197 - 07/07/2017 00:18:12
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I was impressed with Kildare and the way they were set up against Meath. Very mobile with good strength in midfield and full forward. I doubt if they are ready for Dublin at this stage but if they come out with a good performance I could see them progressing to meeting the winners of the Ulster Championship in the quarter final.
Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1780 - 07/07/2017 07:19:29
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