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Cork vs Waterford (Hurling)

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Replying To Killarney.87:  "How did Clare play against Limerick? From the match report it looked liked McGrath and O'Donnell were causing all sorts of trouble in the full-forward line."
On current form Cork would be favourites. Clare would need to improve but O'Donnell and McGrath certainly looked good.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 19/06/2017 15:02:14    2001897

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Hats off to the Cork management team as they are a million miles from this time last year, convincing winners both days and look to be the real deal.

Anyone know why the Final would have been in Cork if the new stadium was ready?

I thought Clare and Cork had a neutral agreement as Ennis is deemed not suitable for a Muster Championship match

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 19/06/2017 15:37:07    2001918

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Replying To tiobraid:  "On current form Cork would be favourites. Clare would need to improve but O'Donnell and McGrath certainly looked good."
Thanks. Yeah I would probably back Cork too, just didn't want to discount Clare willy nilly. It's hard to get a proper idea of where Clare are at this year.

One thing is for sure, they will have to put in a strong performance to beat Cork.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 19/06/2017 16:26:11    2001944

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "With all due respect; it seems you don't understand sport.

Just because A beats B; who beat C. Doesn't necessarily mean C will lose against A.

Listen. The last two year's AI semi-finals - 2015 & 2016 - have featured the same four teams, with the same fixtures: Kilkenny v Waterford and Tipperary v Galway, Both games over the two years have been classics; the hurling has been sublime. There was nothing between the teams, and on any given day any team could beat the other."
Well with due respect to you I think you are missing the point.Its a fair question in my view i.e. to question someone who fancies Waterford on the basis of a lost semi final to a team well beaten in the final.
Furthermore the semi between Waterford and KK in 2015 was a bore, not by any stretch could it be called sublime.
My views on Waterford seem to have been justified in light of yesterday's result in any event.

Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 19/06/2017 17:26:53    2001993

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Replying To slayer:  "Limerick made a hero out of Shane O'Donnell. His running and finishing ability are known for 4 years but we allowed him to do what he is lethal at. If those runs were stopped at source his effect is reduced. I think this Cork team are way tighter than their 2013 team or Limerick. Their backs yesterday showed savage hunger, reminded me a lot of their teams of the 1980's."
I also think the way Cork are playing is a lot more physical than Limerick , I think the Clare team are fantastic hurlers but there's no cutting in them, a very nice team, makes for a great Munster final.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1908 - 19/06/2017 18:47:00    2002056

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Replying To corkcelt:  "It was roasting in Thurles today, I have been attending Munster Championship games for over 60 years and whilst there must have been hotter days I can't remember any.
The heat must have taken it's toll on the players & given the conditions I think we witnessed a very decent game.
Obviously delighted with win and the fact we are guaranteed at least a quarter final game. I still think the All Ireland will be either Tipp or Galway but at least Cork are now back on the hurling map as a serious outfit that no one will take for granted.
Waterford's tactics are now confusing themselves more than the opposition. When Cork went down to 14 there was 8 minutes on the clock plus a good bit of injury time and there was just 4 points in it. From what I could see Waterford just kept the same shape right up to the end.
They have plenty of good players, why don't they back themselves to go man to man & go out and concentrate on themselves & just out score the opposition."
Waterford have a lot of excellent hurlers but their tactics are destroying them.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 19/06/2017 20:22:55    2002090

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "Silly statement. Liam McCarthy is not heading West tonight, nor may he in September. This year's hurling Championship is shaping up to be a classic. The back door qualifying rounds will be fierce. But, it could be the making of some teams. Waterford had their first outing today and will be much improved next time. Tipp, after losing to Cork in a thriller, will be raring to go. Kilkenny, I'm unsure about, but never write them off. To me any of them two, plus Limerick, are the favourites to go through to the quarter finals. The back door can either drain a team, or give them a chance to iron out problems and make them the highly competitive. To get to the semi-finals, they will have to play three games on: 1st July, 8th July and 23rd July. I'll stick my neck out now and say, the winner of this year's AI will come through the back door."
Hhhmmm not sure if waterford will be better the next. They put all their eggs into the championship and lose their first game. Yes they came up a very good cork team but i wouldve expected them to really come at cork when they got their goal but the opposite happened. Austin gleeson was non existent bar his great 1st half point. He needs to be have a similar role to joe cannings.

fireinthebelly (Galway) - Posts: 89 - 19/06/2017 21:33:37    2002151

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It a funny old world. When Waterford were using a sweeper, they were accused of playing puke hurling. When they play 15 on 15 they are accused of having no plan, no tactics and leaderless. This is a team still in its infancy built with minor and under 21 players and years ahead of them. There are more young players to come in. Derek McGrath is vilified and gets no respect for taking this job on knowing that the team was in transition. Made them competitive on most days. Others decided to wait in the wings until the team is more established.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 20/06/2017 19:54:26    2002742

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Replying To Canuck:  "It a funny old world. When Waterford were using a sweeper, they were accused of playing puke hurling. When they play 15 on 15 they are accused of having no plan, no tactics and leaderless. This is a team still in its infancy built with minor and under 21 players and years ahead of them. There are more young players to come in. Derek McGrath is vilified and gets no respect for taking this job on knowing that the team was in transition. Made them competitive on most days. Others decided to wait in the wings until the team is more established."
Were the using a sweeper the last day? Looked like it.

Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 20/06/2017 21:13:47    2002805

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Replying To Canuck:  "It a funny old world. When Waterford were using a sweeper, they were accused of playing puke hurling. When they play 15 on 15 they are accused of having no plan, no tactics and leaderless. This is a team still in its infancy built with minor and under 21 players and years ahead of them. There are more young players to come in. Derek McGrath is vilified and gets no respect for taking this job on knowing that the team was in transition. Made them competitive on most days. Others decided to wait in the wings until the team is more established."
Excellent post Canuck.

I think a lot of the problem nowadays is teams are so driven by a system of play that when things go against them they find it almost impossible to change it up mid-match.

I think the responsible for the defeat should be shared equally between McGrath and the players.

When Waterford had a man advantage Cork still had 6 backs to 4 forwards on one point with Waterford chasing the game. The players should be able to make the decisions on the pitch between themselves to move two lads up.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 20/06/2017 21:51:11    2002830

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Cant help but think of a statement from Clare Hurler Colin Ryan earlier in the year after opting for soccer over hurling

"There is no three-month build-up and three week post-mortem; when the game is over, we know we have another one the following week, so win or lose, we move on quickly,"

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 20/06/2017 23:34:07    2002871

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Murphy in as a selector with Waterford, what's the story with that then?

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 21/06/2017 17:24:18    2003172

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Replying To Condorman:  "Were the using a sweeper the last day? Looked like it."
Not according to all the pundits. Donal O Grady lambasted McGrath for changing to 15 on 15. This sweeper claim is often nonsense as the opposition have pulled out the half forwards and crowded the middle of the field or re enforced their own half back line. Leaving a spare back. Kilkenny constantly used their forward to defend.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 21/06/2017 19:22:57    2003216

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Replying To Killarney.87:  "Excellent post Canuck.

I think a lot of the problem nowadays is teams are so driven by a system of play that when things go against them they find it almost impossible to change it up mid-match.

I think the responsible for the defeat should be shared equally between McGrath and the players.

When Waterford had a man advantage Cork still had 6 backs to 4 forwards on one point with Waterford chasing the game. The players should be able to make the decisions on the pitch between themselves to move two lads up."
Agree with you.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 21/06/2017 19:26:33    2003219

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Replying To Canuck:  "It a funny old world. When Waterford were using a sweeper, they were accused of playing puke hurling. When they play 15 on 15 they are accused of having no plan, no tactics and leaderless. This is a team still in its infancy built with minor and under 21 players and years ahead of them. There are more young players to come in. Derek McGrath is vilified and gets no respect for taking this job on knowing that the team was in transition. Made them competitive on most days. Others decided to wait in the wings until the team is more established."
What are they in transition from? Not winning an all Ireland to not winning an all Ireland?

HurlingSnob (Dublin) - Posts: 220 - 21/06/2017 19:37:31    2003225

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Replying To HurlingSnob:  "What are they in transition from? Not winning an all Ireland to not winning an all Ireland?"
There in no need to be rude. Every team that go through a turn over of players will not necessarily win an All- Ireland. Like your Dublin team also. Does that mean they should throw in the towel and leave it to the usual top team contenders ? This knock team. knock players, knock managers seems to be built in to the Irish physic. Waterford may not have won an All-Ireland since 1959 but like other teams have made a significant contribution to the game.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 21/06/2017 20:09:41    2003242

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Waterford have become a bit of carnival this year. On the match programme on Sunday they could hardly fit in all the backroom Team into the photo there was that many !!! Now they have added 2 more to it. Then going away to Fota for a training week in the lead up to Championship.
They could do with going back to basics and picking the best hurlers in their positions and let them play. They might surprise themselves how good they are as they have some very talented youngsters available to them. The opportunity will pass them by if they don't strike soon.

Cornerback1977 (Cork) - Posts: 67 - 22/06/2017 01:44:53    2003344

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Replying To Cornerback1977:  "Waterford have become a bit of carnival this year. On the match programme on Sunday they could hardly fit in all the backroom Team into the photo there was that many !!! Now they have added 2 more to it. Then going away to Fota for a training week in the lead up to Championship.
They could do with going back to basics and picking the best hurlers in their positions and let them play. They might surprise themselves how good they are as they have some very talented youngsters available to them. The opportunity will pass them by if they don't strike soon."
Yours is an honest opinion and willingness to do constructive debate .
They have less officials than any other team with direct team management duties. Just McGath himself and Dan Shanahan. They now have added a second selector that would be normal for all teams. He is a replacement for the one who stepped down. (Murphy from Roanmore club) Fergal Hartley could me considered an extra. The possibility is he may be taken over from Derek McGrath.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 22/06/2017 13:57:22    2003552

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All does not sound well in the Waterford camp unfortunately. There is much more in this team, but they have till Saturday week to find it and the draw might not be kind to them.
Get over Saturday week, they might be back on the horse, lose it and its back to the drawing board.
i have to wonder, did Derek McGrath giving up his job affect this team? Are they suffering from analysis paralysis? If they put Ozzie Gleeson at centre forward, and build a forward unit around him, they have a chance of getting back into the championship.
It could be a short year for the Deise, but I hope I am wrong.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 22/06/2017 14:46:32    2003577

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Replying To HurlingSnob:  "What are they in transition from? Not winning an all Ireland to not winning an all Ireland?"
That's not a very constructive comment.

How do you define success then? Winning the all-Ireland? So 12 hurling teams will be a failure this year because they don't win the All-Ireland.

Success to me is getting the very best out of yourself. Overall Derek McGrath has done a wonderful job with this team. When he took over they didn't look like they would see another semi final for a awhile. He has brought them to back to back semi finals and won the league for only the 3rd time in their history.

I think you are being disrespectful to a good man and a county that has worked hard over the last 20 years to get back to the top table.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 22/06/2017 14:55:18    2003587

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