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Replying To The_Fridge: "Ok you want to get the last word. It wasn't competitive in the first 5 years either. Dublin won them all." That's not true, as per Ollie's list.
It is only since 2013 that Dublin have been dishing out hammerings to everyone in Leinster.
Before that they were close games involving, Meath,Westmeath,Kildare, Wexford,Laois and Longford.
s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 19/04/2017 03:58:23
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Replying To SaffronDon: "you're entitled to your opinion on Ulster football, but trying to argue that Leinster is competitive is frankly ridiculous. Its like saying the SPL is competitive because Rangers used to match Celtic a few years back. I don't think anybody said anything about 'Ulster bias' but its hard to value your opinion on Ulster when you seem to be delusional about Leinster." I haven't been saying it IS competitive.i said it WAS competitive.
uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 19/04/2017 07:46:27
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For me, it's like Tyrone, too much focus on defence and not enough on offence. I personally think Mickey Harte is holding them back as what worked in 08, isn't enough anymore. Talented footballers like Kyle Coney, Lee Brennan and Ronán O Neill aren't playing in a system that'll maximise their talents, or simply aren't playing which is sad. Ever since Jim Gavin came in, systems will win you Ulster, but in Croker you need ballers and expressive football. Last years quarter final v mayo a case in point. That's why I think that galway have a better chance of winning an all Ireland than any Ulster team, even though they're hard beaten.
Ulster only won one all Ireland since 08, whereas they won 8 Of The previous 18 before 08. Only 2 donegal all Ireland final appearances since. Ulster needs to encourage their best players to attack more. Micheal Murphy, in at the edge Of The square and watch the man create havok.
galwaydublin (Galway) - Posts: 226 - 19/04/2017 09:56:30
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Replying To Whammo86: "I think Ulster should be doing better.
It's a hugely football dominated province with large population counties (that's even taking into account the unionist population).
Counties like Armagh, Derry and Down are really struggling for their size.
Ulster teams are not performing at underage over the last 5 years compared to the previous 20.
They'd a poor enough championship across the board last year.
As an aside. Cavan really seems like the most overrated team in Ireland right now. Their reputation seems to be coming from their promotion to division 1 last season. I think people are really overweighting the league here. They went up on point difference in a really tight division, they haven't done a whole lot in championship in the last 5 years (their recent quarterfinal appearance owed a hell of a lot to getting London in a 4th round qualifier).
Ulster teams in general seem a bit overrated compared to their championship form of recent years. Seems to be people pay a lot of attention to the league and the county's reputation.
Ulster's not getting teams to National finals at any level.
There's no crisis but as a Meath man you'll know that the rot can set in dramatically if not sorted early." I think part of the reason Ulster teams are finding it harder to win all-irelands is not simply because they are on the wane but because teams in other provinces, both at underage and senior level, have become far more tactically astute and, have increased and advanced training levels at all ages. This is really a compliment to the Ulster counties. You are correct though that you need to be vigilant or a rot can set in just as it has in Meath. Also it isn't that long since Tyrone last won an under 21 all-ireland.
HighKings (Meath) - Posts: 271 - 19/04/2017 10:57:48
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Replying To uibhfhaili1986: "I haven't been saying it IS competitive.i said it WAS competitive." why is that relevant to what we're talking about? as i believe you were asked about CURRENT Leinster...
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 19/04/2017 14:03:51
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Replying To uibhfhaili1986: "I haven't been saying it IS competitive.i said it WAS competitive." why is that relevant to what we're talking about? as i believe you were asked about CURRENT Leinster...
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 19/04/2017 14:03:58
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Replying To uibhfhaili1986: "I haven't been saying it IS competitive.i said it WAS competitive." It was not competitive though. It does not matter if the game was lost by 3 points or 13 points. They lost. End of story. Competitive would say the winning streak was broke. It wasn't.
I don't see a big difference in how any of the top teams play in the last few years...Maybe Mayo are a little more traditional at a push. Ultimately they all defend in numbers frequently and have cynical play throughout. Dublin are just a bit better than Kerry, Mayo. By current form, I would throw my own county, Donegal and Tyrone in there.
As an Offaly supporter I expect you have more concerns than Ulster football.
seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts: 360 - 19/04/2017 14:09:02
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Replying To seanfinn: "It was not competitive though. It does not matter if the game was lost by 3 points or 13 points. They lost. End of story. Competitive would say the winning streak was broke. It wasn't.
I don't see a big difference in how any of the top teams play in the last few years...Maybe Mayo are a little more traditional at a push. Ultimately they all defend in numbers frequently and have cynical play throughout. Dublin are just a bit better than Kerry, Mayo. By current form, I would throw my own county, Donegal and Tyrone in there.
As an Offaly supporter I expect you have more concerns than Ulster football." So you wouldn't say Monaghan have been competitive with Dublin in the league in recent seasons?
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 19/04/2017 21:34:33
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Replying To Ulsterman: "As a long term observer of Ulster football I believe the game here is struggling badly and in pretty poor shape. There used to be some very talented footballers in the province and fellas who played with heart, desire, fight and real bite. I think this has all gone from Ulster football.
Donegal and Monaghan are carrying the mantle and Tyrone is keeping it's head just above water but other 6 county teams are in a dire situation. Down, Derry, Armagh especially are as low as they can possibly go. Where are the new Canavans, McConvilles, O'Neills, McDonnells, Clarkes, Murphys etc coming from? Nowhere as far as I can see." As a long-time observer, Ulster is struggling? Ulster is far better now than when we never got a sniff of anything during the 25 year period from the late 1960s until the early 1990s.
In recent years, the province has been the only competitive one. You can pretty much pencil in Kerry, Dublin and Mayo almost every year in every other province, and expect most of the games to be hammerings.
As for Where are the new Canavans, McConvilles, O'Neills, McDonnells, Clarkes, Murphys, etc coming from:
Peter Harte
Ryan McHugh
Conor McManus
Jack McCarron
Mattie Donnelly
They would walk onto any team in the country, including Dublin, Mayo and Kerry.
And just from following the current crop of Donegal U-21 players, there is some serious talent coming through. Probably not at the levels that Kerry have, but there should be a few who will be playing Senior Championship this year. And there's a youngster from Letterkenny, still in secondary school, Niall O'Donnell, who is probably our best young talent since Michael Murphy and Paddy McBrearty came through.
Texas (Donegal) - Posts: 163 - 20/04/2017 15:32:53
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Replying To Texas: "As a long-time observer, Ulster is struggling? Ulster is far better now than when we never got a sniff of anything during the 25 year period from the late 1960s until the early 1990s.
In recent years, the province has been the only competitive one. You can pretty much pencil in Kerry, Dublin and Mayo almost every year in every other province, and expect most of the games to be hammerings.
As for Where are the new Canavans, McConvilles, O'Neills, McDonnells, Clarkes, Murphys, etc coming from:
Peter Harte
Ryan McHugh
Conor McManus
Jack McCarron
Mattie Donnelly
They would walk onto any team in the country, including Dublin, Mayo and Kerry.
And just from following the current crop of Donegal U-21 players, there is some serious talent coming through. Probably not at the levels that Kerry have, but there should be a few who will be playing Senior Championship this year. And there's a youngster from Letterkenny, still in secondary school, Niall O'Donnell, who is probably our best young talent since Michael Murphy and Paddy McBrearty came through." I wonder was anything perhaps going on in the North of the country in and around the 25 years from the late 1960s to early 1990s?
I really don't think comparing now to the period where the troubles were at their height is a great reason to think that all is rosey with Ulster football.
The last 5 years have been very slow for Ulster teams reaching All Ireland finals at all age levels
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4225 - 20/04/2017 16:41:12
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Replying To seanfinn: "It was not competitive though. It does not matter if the game was lost by 3 points or 13 points. They lost. End of story. Competitive would say the winning streak was broke. It wasn't.
I don't see a big difference in how any of the top teams play in the last few years...Maybe Mayo are a little more traditional at a push. Ultimately they all defend in numbers frequently and have cynical play throughout. Dublin are just a bit better than Kerry, Mayo. By current form, I would throw my own county, Donegal and Tyrone in there.
As an Offaly supporter I expect you have more concerns than Ulster football." Competitive means a challenge being made to the team.When people say a match is competitive it means the losing team put it up to the winning team.
uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 20/04/2017 20:30:51
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Replying To uibhfhaili1986: "I've been watching football since the mid 90's and honestly I used to dread ulster championship matches even back then when I was young.Great players playing up there but the matches were also very rough and lacked the flow of the other provinces.It's got worse in the last 10 years or so." Sorry to hear of all the trauma you have endured,
Should name and out the bully who made you keep watching Ulster football for the past two decade.
Any one remember how tough the AI winning team of 71/72 were?
On the other hand your AI winning team of '82 were skillful and disciplined.
RTE use Ulster games to make the Sunday Game meaningful during May-June as you usually end up with a close, well attended contest.
Their panel of pundits target Ulster for personal, offensive criticism. At times they seem to be competing for the 'funniest' most offensive label e.g. 'bad smell', 'black death', 'Taliban' etc
Wish the Ulster council showed some backbone and offered exclusive rights to BBC/TV3. This would also free up RTE to offer a choice of viewing and show matches not involving Dublin, Cork or Kerry in Leinster and Munster . This would also reduce the stress on those dreading having to watch Ulster football and keep us all happy.
Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 506 - 20/04/2017 21:37:59
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Replying To uibhfhaili1986: "Up until 2010/2011 it was a a very good championship as it was competitive.If Dublin were in Ulster they'd be handing out similar beatings." Not sure about that, based in Ulster they wouldn't be playing majority of games in Croke Park,
Doubt very much if they would be going for 12 out 13 if they had to travel to Omagh, Ballybofey or Clones for preliminary or first round games on a regular basis.
Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 506 - 20/04/2017 21:47:13
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Replying To Ulsterman: "As a long term observer of Ulster football I believe the game here is struggling badly and in pretty poor shape. There used to be some very talented footballers in the province and fellas who played with heart, desire, fight and real bite. I think this has all gone from Ulster football.
Donegal and Monaghan are carrying the mantle and Tyrone is keeping it's head just above water but other 6 county teams are in a dire situation. Down, Derry, Armagh especially are as low as they can possibly go. Where are the new Canavans, McConvilles, O'Neills, McDonnells, Clarkes, Murphys etc coming from? Nowhere as far as I can see." Looking at this post now, some of the points could be general points about Gaelic football rather than about Ulster. I think the point you make about not as many talented players is more to do with the way the game is played with the emphasis on systems. The lack of fight and real bite in matches is also partly down to the way teams play with the tactics of one team keeping loads of men back and the opposition happy to hand pass in front of them and partly down to the way the referees implement the rules now compared to 10/15 years ago.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1348 - 20/04/2017 22:11:34
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Replying To Texas: "As a long-time observer, Ulster is struggling? Ulster is far better now than when we never got a sniff of anything during the 25 year period from the late 1960s until the early 1990s.
In recent years, the province has been the only competitive one. You can pretty much pencil in Kerry, Dublin and Mayo almost every year in every other province, and expect most of the games to be hammerings.
As for Where are the new Canavans, McConvilles, O'Neills, McDonnells, Clarkes, Murphys, etc coming from:
Peter Harte
Ryan McHugh
Conor McManus
Jack McCarron
Mattie Donnelly
They would walk onto any team in the country, including Dublin, Mayo and Kerry.
And just from following the current crop of Donegal U-21 players, there is some serious talent coming through. Probably not at the levels that Kerry have, but there should be a few who will be playing Senior Championship this year. And there's a youngster from Letterkenny, still in secondary school, Niall O'Donnell, who is probably our best young talent since Michael Murphy and Paddy McBrearty came through." I remember those 23 barren years (68-91) when Ulster teams were seen as a soft touch when they reached Croke Park. Only one team managed to reach a final (77) in all that time .
Through that lean spell I seem to recall great Ulster players in Frank McGuigan, Peter McGinnity, Nudie Hughes, Gerry Armstrong, Gerry McElhinney, Mickey Lynch, Joe Kiernan, Paddy Moriarty, Ray Carolin, Charlie Gallagher, Liam Austin, Seamus Bonner and Brian McEniff to name but a few.
On a positive note five Ulster counties won a total of nine AIs between them in the following 21 years.
Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 506 - 20/04/2017 22:12:01
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Take Mayo, Kerry and the Dubs out of the argument and you can say 'what is wrong with all the other teams' instead of 'what is wrong with ulster football'.
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 20/04/2017 22:21:45
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Replying To Curlew66: "Sorry to hear of all the trauma you have endured,
Should name and out the bully who made you keep watching Ulster football for the past two decade.
Any one remember how tough the AI winning team of 71/72 were?
On the other hand your AI winning team of '82 were skillful and disciplined.
RTE use Ulster games to make the Sunday Game meaningful during May-June as you usually end up with a close, well attended contest.
Their panel of pundits target Ulster for personal, offensive criticism. At times they seem to be competing for the 'funniest' most offensive label e.g. 'bad smell', 'black death', 'Taliban' etc
Wish the Ulster council showed some backbone and offered exclusive rights to BBC/TV3. This would also free up RTE to offer a choice of viewing and show matches not involving Dublin, Cork or Kerry in Leinster and Munster . This would also reduce the stress on those dreading having to watch Ulster football and keep us all happy." I genuinely try to avoid it these days .I watched just for the hope of a good game.
Not sure what Offaly's teams in the past have to do with anything.
This discussion has nothing to do with that.
uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 20/04/2017 22:24:30
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Replying To uibhfhaili1986: " Replying To Curlew66: "Sorry to hear of all the trauma you have endured,
Should name and out the bully who made you keep watching Ulster football for the past two decade.
Any one remember how tough the AI winning team of 71/72 were?
On the other hand your AI winning team of '82 were skillful and disciplined.
RTE use Ulster games to make the Sunday Game meaningful during May-June as you usually end up with a close, well attended contest.
Their panel of pundits target Ulster for personal, offensive criticism. At times they seem to be competing for the 'funniest' most offensive label e.g. 'bad smell', 'black death', 'Taliban' etc
Wish the Ulster council showed some backbone and offered exclusive rights to BBC/TV3. This would also free up RTE to offer a choice of viewing and show matches not involving Dublin, Cork or Kerry in Leinster and Munster . This would also reduce the stress on those dreading having to watch Ulster football and keep us all happy." I genuinely try to avoid it these days .I watched just for the hope of a good game. Not sure what Offaly's teams in the past have to do with anything. This discussion has nothing to do with that."
Genuinely sympathetic to your situation !
Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 506 - 20/04/2017 22:36:44
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Replying To Whammo86: "I wonder was anything perhaps going on in the North of the country in and around the 25 years from the late 1960s to early 1990s?
I really don't think comparing now to the period where the troubles were at their height is a great reason to think that all is rosey with Ulster football.
The last 5 years have been very slow for Ulster teams reaching All Ireland finals at all age levels" Donegal contested 2 senior and 1 minor all Ireland final in last 5 years
eunans4ever (Donegal) - Posts: 1595 - 21/04/2017 00:34:54
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"the matches were also very rough and lacked the flow of the other provinces"
I feel your pain. well, what can you expect? we're not as evolved as you. Southern superiority is your underlying point, so i'll say it for you. you're better than us - morally, culturally, at football and you also have nicer accents (apart from the Midlands, obviously). there's no hope for us : )
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 21/04/2017 08:32:41
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