National - Tyrone for Sam 2017

Replying To Laois76:  "Well said Seanie. People tend to forget all the good points Christianity brought to us. After all pagan celtic Ireland involved human sacrificial rites.

The message of Christianity was good but people are human and have corrupted it."
the message of christianity in ireland is good??? are you having a complete laugh? as for human sacrifice the church is way way out in front there, do we really need to educate you about Tuam and all the other poor people that disappeared down the years, swept under the carpet, then having a say in our political matters.
Give me a pagan anyday

lilypad (Kildare) - Posts:881 - 20/07/2017 21:19:28   2020232

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Replying To lilypad:  "the message of christianity in ireland is good??? are you having a complete laugh? as for human sacrifice the church is way way out in front there, do we really need to educate you about Tuam and all the other poor people that disappeared down the years, swept under the carpet, then having a say in our political matters.
Give me a pagan anyday"
There were far more proportionately sacrificed in pagan times. Your knowledge obviously begins and ends with the 20th century.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts:1270 - 20/07/2017 21:31:32   2020235

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Replying To lilypad:  "the message of christianity in ireland is good??? are you having a complete laugh? as for human sacrifice the church is way way out in front there, do we really need to educate you about Tuam and all the other poor people that disappeared down the years, swept under the carpet, then having a say in our political matters.
Give me a pagan anyday"
No one is defending the wrongs done by the Church but in proportion to what happened in Pagan Ireland. Would you like me to educate you on what happened at the inauguration of a pagan Irish chief?

I said the 'message' of Christianity was good and in general we were better served by Christianity. I've studied the area in depth, without trying to sound condescending.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts:1270 - 20/07/2017 21:35:20   2020239

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Replying To lilypad:  "the message of christianity in ireland is good??? are you having a complete laugh? as for human sacrifice the church is way way out in front there, do we really need to educate you about Tuam and all the other poor people that disappeared down the years, swept under the carpet, then having a say in our political matters.
Give me a pagan anyday"
There's a difference between a pre Christian pagan and a secular atheist like Terry Wogan! When you say give me a pagan anyday you don't understand what 'pagan' means.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts:1270 - 20/07/2017 21:37:48   2020241

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Replying To lilypad:  "the message of christianity in ireland is good??? are you having a complete laugh? as for human sacrifice the church is way way out in front there, do we really need to educate you about Tuam and all the other poor people that disappeared down the years, swept under the carpet, then having a say in our political matters.
Give me a pagan anyday"
This is the typical liberally progressive nonsense that passes for substantive debate today. And if you disagree you're a racist ....a bigot....and so on and so forth etc etc.

In a lonely mountain valley
In the county of Tyrone
Lies one of Ireland's hallowed spots
Deserted and unknown
But few who write historic tales
Or wield the poet's pen
Can say with pride - I knelt beside
The Mass Rock in the glen

I'm proud that I am mountain bred this is my native place
These mountain glens have always been the stronghold of our race
'Twas here our fathers earned the right to bear the name of men
When they kept the faith for Ireland by the mass rock in the glen

Our priests like wolves were hunted down
O God 'twas surely hard
That from the right to worship Thee
Thy children were debarred
But still they proudly bore
Thy cross Those simple mountain men
Were proud to share Thy Calvary
By the Mass Rock in the glen

No more on Corradinna Hill
The sentinel stands on guard
Our ancient foes, the hated yoghs
Have gone to their reward
And he who worships God in peace
May bless the fearless men
Who held the faith for Ireland
By the Mass Rock in the glen

God Bless the glens of Ireland
Every rock and mountain pass
'twas those game glens that under God
Preserved for us, the Mass
And if the day should come again
When Ireland calls for men
She will not find them wanting
By the Mass Rock in the glen

God bless the glens of Ireland
and the Mass rock in the glen.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts:3889 - 20/07/2017 21:41:09   2020242

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For example let me quote a pagan historian.. "The Crom Cruich cult were very bloodthirsty with the faithful expected to sacrifice their first born in his honour to assure a successful harvest. The annual slaughter took place on the pagan feast of Samhain, on November 1, each year," explains historian, Thomais Moriarty, who specialises in pre-Christian Ireland."

Fellas like you think history begins with Tuam.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts:1270 - 20/07/2017 21:42:15   2020243

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Replying To seanie_boy:  "This is the typical liberally progressive nonsense that passes for substantive debate today. And if you disagree you're a racist ....a bigot....and so on and so forth etc etc.

In a lonely mountain valley
In the county of Tyrone
Lies one of Ireland's hallowed spots
Deserted and unknown
But few who write historic tales
Or wield the poet's pen
Can say with pride - I knelt beside
The Mass Rock in the glen

I'm proud that I am mountain bred this is my native place
These mountain glens have always been the stronghold of our race
'Twas here our fathers earned the right to bear the name of men
When they kept the faith for Ireland by the mass rock in the glen

Our priests like wolves were hunted down
O God 'twas surely hard
That from the right to worship Thee
Thy children were debarred
But still they proudly bore
Thy cross Those simple mountain men
Were proud to share Thy Calvary
By the Mass Rock in the glen

No more on Corradinna Hill
The sentinel stands on guard
Our ancient foes, the hated yoghs
Have gone to their reward
And he who worships God in peace
May bless the fearless men
Who held the faith for Ireland
By the Mass Rock in the glen

God Bless the glens of Ireland
Every rock and mountain pass
'twas those game glens that under God
Preserved for us, the Mass
And if the day should come again
When Ireland calls for men
She will not find them wanting
By the Mass Rock in the glen

God bless the glens of Ireland
and the Mass rock in the glen."
Excellent piece Seanie. You're someone who understands the deep bond between the gael and his faith throughout the centuries.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts:1270 - 20/07/2017 21:44:10   2020244

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Replying To the_walls:  "So you can't point out where anyone advocated or even implied that people should be banned from praying in public? Sound."
This is taken from a post of yours about prayer. 'That is what going, to church mosque, temple, etc is for.'

Implication you can only pray as a group in a church, temple, mosque etc.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts:1270 - 20/07/2017 21:57:13   2020252

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What to you mean I don't know what a pagan is or means? And proportionally?? I study too, and most of the christian festivals we know of were originally pagan ones, highjacked by the 'church' and tweaked to suit their 'agenda'.
Depends on what or where you are looking when it comes to research, I am 67 years of age and I have read enough, and even experienced enough of Ireland's brand of Christianity, what's yours, Roman, or are you a born again?
The moral ethics of Christianity are a black and white version of what's good and what's bad, and we don't need a preacher to tell us what these are.

lilypad (Kildare) - Posts:881 - 20/07/2017 22:20:16   2020260

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Replying To Laois76:  "This is taken from a post of yours about prayer. 'That is what going, to church mosque, temple, etc is for.'

Implication you can only pray as a group in a church, temple, mosque etc."
Well that's very specific of you, fair play. Here is the full context of what I said:

"If an individual wishes to pray in public, have at it. If a group of people want to come together to have an old pray, again have at it. It's normally referred to as going to church and I cannot see one position advocating that that should not be allowed."

There is no implication there that people can only pray as a group inside a church or any other religious building. I simply made the point that when people come together for prayer it is generally to with a religious service in a religious building, Now let me clear just so you don't have any further misunderstandings. People, either as individuals or as a group, should be allowed to pray in public or proselytise to their hearts content.

I find a potential implication of yours though ironic which I would be most appreciative if you could clear up. You state that there has been a deep connection between the Gael and his faith for centuries. Is this to mean that someone who doesn't hold any faith is not a true Gael or not truly Irish? I'd appreciate your clarification.

As for the human sacrifice thing, well Christianity was explicitly founded on the sacrifice of a human!

the_walls (Mayo) - Posts:236 - 20/07/2017 22:24:08   2020265

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Replying To lilypad:  "What to you mean I don't know what a pagan is or means? And proportionally?? I study too, and most of the christian festivals we know of were originally pagan ones, highjacked by the 'church' and tweaked to suit their 'agenda'.
Depends on what or where you are looking when it comes to research, I am 67 years of age and I have read enough, and even experienced enough of Ireland's brand of Christianity, what's yours, Roman, or are you a born again?
The moral ethics of Christianity are a black and white version of what's good and what's bad, and we don't need a preacher to tell us what these are."
Proportionally. Your first born sacrificed. Was it as bad as that in the 50s?? Good for you that your 67. And you obviousl don't know what pagan means. You said give you one everyday. Do you want someone killing their first born living beside you?

I'm Roman Catholic and proud of it. And i'm 41 and have no trouble with that either.

You made a general church bashing post with no knowledge of what went before it to back it up. I suggest you read more.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts:1270 - 20/07/2017 22:28:27   2020269

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Replying To lilypad:  "What to you mean I don't know what a pagan is or means? And proportionally?? I study too, and most of the christian festivals we know of were originally pagan ones, highjacked by the 'church' and tweaked to suit their 'agenda'.
Depends on what or where you are looking when it comes to research, I am 67 years of age and I have read enough, and even experienced enough of Ireland's brand of Christianity, what's yours, Roman, or are you a born again?
The moral ethics of Christianity are a black and white version of what's good and what's bad, and we don't need a preacher to tell us what these are."
'Are you a born again'.

That sounds so backwards, it's like saying 'are you from out foreign'!!

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts:1270 - 20/07/2017 22:31:05   2020272

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Replying To lilypad:  "What to you mean I don't know what a pagan is or means? And proportionally?? I study too, and most of the christian festivals we know of were originally pagan ones, highjacked by the 'church' and tweaked to suit their 'agenda'.
Depends on what or where you are looking when it comes to research, I am 67 years of age and I have read enough, and even experienced enough of Ireland's brand of Christianity, what's yours, Roman, or are you a born again?
The moral ethics of Christianity are a black and white version of what's good and what's bad, and we don't need a preacher to tell us what these are."
I'd say the extent of your reading is the Kildare Nationalist.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts:1270 - 20/07/2017 22:32:26   2020273

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Replying To the_walls:  "Well that's very specific of you, fair play. Here is the full context of what I said:

"If an individual wishes to pray in public, have at it. If a group of people want to come together to have an old pray, again have at it. It's normally referred to as going to church and I cannot see one position advocating that that should not be allowed."

There is no implication there that people can only pray as a group inside a church or any other religious building. I simply made the point that when people come together for prayer it is generally to with a religious service in a religious building, Now let me clear just so you don't have any further misunderstandings. People, either as individuals or as a group, should be allowed to pray in public or proselytise to their hearts content.

I find a potential implication of yours though ironic which I would be most appreciative if you could clear up. You state that there has been a deep connection between the Gael and his faith for centuries. Is this to mean that someone who doesn't hold any faith is not a true Gael or not truly Irish? I'd appreciate your clarification.

As for the human sacrifice thing, well Christianity was explicitly founded on the sacrifice of a human!"
Yes the one sacrifice i'll give you that!

No. You're trying to use trickery here. Anyone of any race or creed or none is an irishman if they are associated with this country. But do you want 90% of us to deny our heritage, who we are and where we came from?

You did a great bit of copying and pasting but left out the line i quoted from your post.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts:1270 - 20/07/2017 22:38:29   2020283

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Replying To Laois76:  "I'd say the extent of your reading is the Kildare Nationalist."
Fantastic reply, enough said. You better start saying a few Rosaries in Laois so.

lilypad (Kildare) - Posts:881 - 20/07/2017 22:42:08   2020286

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Replying To Laois76:  "I'd say the extent of your reading is the Kildare Nationalist."
I take that back about the Kildare Nationalist. It wasn't called for.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts:1270 - 20/07/2017 22:42:14   2020287

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Replying To lilypad:  "Fantastic reply, enough said. You better start saying a few Rosaries in Laois so."
I took that comment back about the Nationalist, wasn't called for.

But look if you're going to give it you have to be able to take it. You started saying i needed an education and i gave you plenty of examples of where you were slipping up.

I'm off to say the Rosary now and then hit the hay ;) Done me no harm so far.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts:1270 - 20/07/2017 22:51:30   2020296

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Replying To Laois76:  "I take that back about the Kildare Nationalist. It wasn't called for."
I feel it is my christian duty to forgive you, only joking, no hard feelings, its a hot subject and think it's not for here, peace out!

lilypad (Kildare) - Posts:881 - 20/07/2017 22:53:36   2020297

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Replying To Laois76:  "I took that comment back about the Nationalist, wasn't called for.

But look if you're going to give it you have to be able to take it. You started saying i needed an education and i gave you plenty of examples of where you were slipping up.

I'm off to say the Rosary now and then hit the hay ;) Done me no harm so far."
I wasn't in the slightest bit offended by you I just don't agree with you, no harm done myself thankfully.

lilypad (Kildare) - Posts:881 - 20/07/2017 22:57:14   2020298

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Replying To lilypad:  "I feel it is my christian duty to forgive you, only joking, no hard feelings, its a hot subject and think it's not for here, peace out!"
No problem Lilypad. Same here. We all come at it differently and don't know where the other person is coming from and their experience. Best of luck in the rest of the championship. Ye have a fine team and i genuinely think ye'll have a Leinster in a few years.

What's argued about on Hoganstand stays on Hoganstand ;) I'll try and be more civil in future!

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts:1270 - 20/07/2017 22:59:14   2020299

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