HoganStand GAA Football and Hurling

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All Ireland under 21 hurling championship

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There are really good teams and very poor teams playing the same sports in Countries all over the world. The problem here is the competition structure is so bizarrely poor that one of the poorest can meet one of the strongest in a semi final! Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 19/08/2017 20:56:16 2035406 Link
Replying To keeper7: "I think it was the Normans, not the English who created the county boundaries." Same thing. Some Celts moved north in Europe and became Vikings. Some viking moved to England(a small few stayed in Ireland), a few settled in France and became the Normans. The Normans then took most of England for themselves and after a while Ireland with the coming of Strongbow de Claire himself. Then the Normans moved here and liked the people here so much most stopped being Norman and married the locals(except for them Kilkenny folk; hence the whole cricket and subsequently masters of hurling thing many centuries later). Then the Normans in modern day England stopped using English as common language and drifted culturally and became the English, the French - French. Long story short we're all related somehow. I don't care for who made the county borders but you couldn't do away with them based on old enemies creating them. GameOfTyrones (Tyrone) - Posts: 469 - 19/08/2017 21:13:02 2035409 Link
Replying To sam1884: "Derry and most Ulster counties are trying to improve hurling. At least they enter these national competitions. I am not sure, the same can be said of Kilkenny, in regards to football. Ulster is a football province, first and foremost, I know not everybody would agree, but I do think an Ulster structure that competes in the national league and Championship as one could increase the profile of hurling, and provide hurlers an opportunity to compete at a higher standard. Over 10 - 15 years with the right investment; this could improve hurling in Ulster." Football counties are football counties. Hurling are hurling. There are dual counties inbetween Cork/Galway/Dublin . If you pump money for hurling into a football county for example Donegal. Then if you somehow manage to boost hurling in Donegal to a decent level, it will (in the long term) have some impact upon football; as their will be less players to play it. How ever minimal this might be it will still effect county teams as they have less of a pick. The same applies for Kilkenny. Get a kilkenny football team going, get them to say the level of Laois or Westmeath every one is saying isn't it great for Kilkenny and their new found football team BUT it will more than likely also have a knock on effect on the county hurling team over 10-20 years. Kilkenny is mostly Hurling and soccer with a few other side sports, throw in football as a main sport and then it waters down the others. How to solve that? Pay the players set wages(as much as I hate saying that as it's opens roads a future day of transfer windows) and pull young players away from the Capitalistic lure of pro-soccer/rugby and foreign sports. Even if county hurlers in Leitrim or Louth are getting paid a set wage (the same as every other county) it would at least make some kids think they could push into it as a career and boost it a little in weak counties.. along with funding into weak football/hurling counties for the other code they are weak in. GameOfTyrones (Tyrone) - Posts: 469 - 19/08/2017 21:36:23 2035416 Link
My point is we shouldn't be beholden to the county team structure across the board and deny talent the chance to shine. Obviously merging teams together comes with its challenges but I doubt a combined Ulster under 21 Hurling team would lose to Kilkenny by 52 points. It's not fair on the Derry players and takes away from the fact that they won an Ulster title this year. Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 19/08/2017 22:14:40 2035432 Link
The format is really bad at this level. Galway entering this competition for the first time today in a semi-final is equally as bad as the mis-match of Kilkenny against Derry. As we are not burdened by a deep tradition of Munster finals at this grade , there is no excuse for not going for an open draw. That looked like a very useful Galway u21 side to me today, pity they hadnt been hardened up with a competitiive game before this one. facethepuckout (Roscommon) - Posts: 214 - 19/08/2017 22:35:25 2035437 Link
Replying To facethepuckout: "The format is really bad at this level. Galway entering this competition for the first time today in a semi-final is equally as bad as the mis-match of Kilkenny against Derry. As we are not burdened by a deep tradition of Munster finals at this grade , there is no excuse for not going for an open draw. That looked like a very useful Galway u21 side to me today, pity they hadnt been hardened up with a competitiive game before this one." Simple solution. Eddie Brennan was on about an open draw. However that is only a KK mans way of increasing the big 3s hold on the game. He, and his ilk, do not like any Leinster and Munster Championship because smaller hurling counties like Wexford, Clare, LK etc get encouragement from winning provincial titles at any level, whereas these wins are of little consequence to the bigger counties. What should be done is Leinster counties, including Mr Brennan's own KK, should allow Galway enter the Leinster champioship at all grades and an amalgamated Ulster team should also be allowed into the Leinster championship. Problem sorted if the will is there. After all when Galway were in Munstetr (59-69) they were allowed to compete at all grades, in the province. Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4318 - 20/08/2017 10:06:38 2035459 Link
Still, it's not quite as bad as the 17.20 to no score inflicted on a Kilkenny football team recently. Nowadays, most clubs have lots of teams at all age grades. More players than they need. Surely some of them could be directed towards the weaker sport in their county. After all, a tiny club like Slaughtneil shows it can be done, provided the will is there. Wouldn't any young person who knows they'll never make the senior 15 in their county's dominant sport be happy to give their county's 'weaker' sport a rattle? It'd have to beat sitting on the bench or giving up Gaelic games altogether. It needs a push from the top though. essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 20/08/2017 11:00:25 2035469 Link
keep the provincial championships - would you have had 12k and the wild celebrations and pitch invasion at the end of the limerick v cork game if it was a quarter final would roscommon fans have got the same joy out of beating galway in a last 16 games as they did by beating them in connacht final no the provincial championships must stay and stay as part of the all ireland - a provincial title is to be cherished janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 20/08/2017 11:43:44 2035480 Link
Sure you might as well have a combined Provincial team for each Province given it is nearly always the same teams coming out of each Province i.e. Cork/Tipp, Kilkenny, Galway and Antrim. Have the Provincials with the winners going in to the 1/4s where the 4 Provincial selects come in with open draw. Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 20/08/2017 11:44:33 2035481 Link
Replying To Oldtourman: "Simple solution. Eddie Brennan was on about an open draw. However that is only a KK mans way of increasing the big 3s hold on the game. He, and his ilk, do not like any Leinster and Munster Championship because smaller hurling counties like Wexford, Clare, LK etc get encouragement from winning provincial titles at any level, whereas these wins are of little consequence to the bigger counties. What should be done is Leinster counties, including Mr Brennan's own KK, should allow Galway enter the Leinster champioship at all grades and an amalgamated Ulster team should also be allowed into the Leinster championship. Problem sorted if the will is there. After all when Galway were in Munstetr (59-69) they were allowed to compete at all grades, in the province." You mention "bigger counties" but Clare, Limerick and Wexford are all much bigger than "Mr Brennan's Kilkenny". ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 20/08/2017 11:47:05 2035483 Link
fantastic performance and result by limerick yesterday well done players and management thought barry nash peter casey barry murphy and thomas grimes got some outstanding points and the build up play to both goals was very good esp murphys catch leading to caseys goal - subs la touch and boylan gave great impetus against an very good galway side , thought we finished really well , concannon was excellent for galway -like the cork game we showed a lot of guts and determination great again to see the players stay on pitch and sign stuff and taking pictures with kids fantastic limerick support again of the 6500 crowd (thought myself it was more) there was 5500 from limerick, which is incredible support, absoutely putrid support from galway at 21s level again janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 20/08/2017 11:48:38 2035484 Link
Replying To ballydalane: "You mention "bigger counties" but Clare, Limerick and Wexford are all much bigger than "Mr Brennan's Kilkenny"." Well yes, but you what I mean. KK have not won a senior football championship since 1929, despite having won three Leinster Football championships by 1911. So KK obviously completely abandoned football unlike Limerick , Clare or Wexford. The last Rugby international from KK was Willie Duggan about thirty years ago and soccer, as in league of Ireland, is not very widely played in KK. Limerick by contrast had five men out of 42 in the the second last Band I Lions Team, an indication of what the promotion of hurling is up against in LL compared to KK. Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4318 - 20/08/2017 12:16:02 2035492 Link
Replying To janesboro: "fantastic performance and result by limerick yesterday well done players and management thought barry nash peter casey barry murphy and thomas grimes got some outstanding points and the build up play to both goals was very good esp murphys catch leading to caseys goal - subs la touch and boylan gave great impetus against an very good galway side , thought we finished really well , concannon was excellent for galway -like the cork game we showed a lot of guts and determination great again to see the players stay on pitch and sign stuff and taking pictures with kids fantastic limerick support again of the 6500 crowd (thought myself it was more) there was 5500 from limerick, which is incredible support, absoutely putrid support from galway at 21s level again" Were saving our money we are in the senior final on Sunday two weeks. bud14 (Galway) - Posts: 296 - 20/08/2017 12:24:05 2035496 Link
What about a mini group for galway, ulster champs,and munster leinster runners up to decide the last 2 semi final places preddan (Kildare) - Posts: 735 - 20/08/2017 12:24:22 2035497 Link
A cracking football semi final today with a couple of talking points and yesterday's first semi-final will be well forgotten. Nothing will change Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 20/08/2017 12:40:59 2035506 Link
Replying To preddan: "What about a mini group for galway, ulster champs,and munster leinster runners up to decide the last 2 semi final places" Galway U21's (U20's from now on) will be in the Leinster championship next year AFAIK. There is a proposal from HQ along those lines for our U17's. PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1903 - 20/08/2017 12:48:19 2035509 Link
While the idea of a combined Ulster XV competing in any championship would be difficult to implement, there is an easy way to restructure the All Ireland U-21 Hurling Championship. Galway and the Ulster teams who take part in the Ulster U-21 Hurling Championship can be dropped into Leinster. A random draw will decide teams playing in the preliminary round of the Leinster U-21 Hurling Championship and the All Ireland semi finals will consist of the Leinster champions vs the Munster runners-up and vice versa. Even any different restructuring would surely be better than allowing the mostly farcical meetings between the Ulster champions and the Leinster or Munster champions and leaving Galway with no competitive games before an All Ireland semi final. eoghan6688 (Galway) - Posts: 154 - 20/08/2017 12:50:39 2035511 Link
Replying To Oldtourman: "Well yes, but you what I mean. KK have not won a senior football championship since 1929, despite having won three Leinster Football championships by 1911. So KK obviously completely abandoned football unlike Limerick , Clare or Wexford. The last Rugby international from KK was Willie Duggan about thirty years ago and soccer, as in league of Ireland, is not very widely played in KK. Limerick by contrast had five men out of 42 in the the second last Band I Lions Team, an indication of what the promotion of hurling is up against in LL compared to KK." agree (and i a big rugby fan too) which is why this win was so important for limerick - needs us interested in county hurling for next 3 weeks gives the kids something to aspire to -great to see kids meeting their heros on pitch after game - bear in mind had we lost those same sport mad kids would be watching limerick fc and munster (nothing wrong with that i go support them too) the final will be probably thules at 7pm and 5ish same day munster play in thomnd - i suspoect there will be far more liemrick people in thurles that thomond janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 20/08/2017 12:50:44 2035512 Link
Replying To PoolSturgeon: "Galway U21's (U20's from now on) will be in the Leinster championship next year AFAIK. There is a proposal from HQ along those lines for our U17's." yes - be better for galway too - ye should be getting these games at home in galway too janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 20/08/2017 12:51:27 2035513 Link
Replying To bud14: "Were saving our money we are in the senior final on Sunday two weeks." i know and ill will be happy out if joe canning gets that elusive medal - but ye have only had one match - we have had three - we brought 5k to kilkenny a few weeks back we have had better travelling support watching seniors v westmeath and antrim the supports made a difference yesterday - galway people get out and support your up and coming stars coz this is a fine galway team janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 20/08/2017 12:53:53 2035514 Link