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Replying To dubshurling7: "Didn't Tuohy get off for the same thing as Gleeson ? If rules are rules he should miss the final also shouldn't he ?
Austin Gleeson won't get a ban precedent set with Adrian Tuohy . Wasn't looking at the player how can it be proven it was deliberate if he wasn't looking at him. Conor Gleeson will not get his ban overturned which will delight Galway unsung player for Waterford as he is the main man marker for them done a great job on Conor McDonald, Richie Hogan and Lehane today" Correct me if I am wrong but Tuohy didn't grab the face guard. Austin Gleeson did grab the face guard. I think that's where the difference will be. I do think it will be easier to get Conor Gleeson red card over turned. Looking forward to see what Sunday Game analyst's provide as insight tonight.
lowandhard (Galway) - Posts: 33 - 13/08/2017 20:48:35
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Replying To tearintom: "It was very deliberate and he can have no complaints if he is suspended I'm afraid to say.
He actually tackles him around the neck and the play stops with the ball going out of play. He then brings his hand up past his helmet grabs it and pulls it off.
He's not tangling in a tackle like de burca for example, he's not trying to grab out at something for balance or anything for example. Balls out of play and everyone has stopped yet yet he just grabbed at his helmet and eliberagely pulled it.
Utterly stupid thing to do, id be asking the question why is this the 3rd Waterford hurler this summer alone to be involved in the same thing.
It's a harsh rule for a reason because it can cause serious damage, when someone pulls at your helmet and face guard you have zero control and yanking of a neck and head can do damage. I seem to remember it came in on the back of some serious injuries occurring one that required a huge amount of stitches in a game.
Whether it's an all Ireland or league club game the same rule should apply for me. Idiotic thing to do when your team mates have already been suspended twice in the last 2 months for doing the same." Have to totally agree with you. He is an amazing hurler but this was a stupid thing to do.
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 13/08/2017 21:05:52
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Replying To clondalkindub: "Come on man that's the bleeding extreme , if you punch a player you could kill him aswell but should a player get a year suspension for throwing a punch knowing how dangerous it could be? What Gleeson did was not one bit dangerous , I don't know about yous but I want to see the best players playing. If it's a dirty stroke then fair enough but for pulling a helmet off come on that's ridiculous." Declan Fanning the current Tipp selector nearly lost his ear in 2010 by a helmet being pulled of his head. He required an operation and 39 stitches.
No tell me this rule is stupid. It's there to protect players from such injuries happening again. The rule just needs to be applied by every ref in every game.
therealtmo (Tipperary) - Posts: 1292 - 13/08/2017 21:26:05
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Great final. Will be rooting for Waterford as we have great friends around Dunmore East/Cheekpoint area. Waterford hurling people have always made time for the Antrim lads and I have great respect for them.
Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9697 - 13/08/2017 21:47:10
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Gleeson has to be banned it was a deliberate pull of the helmet. Though easy for me to say as I want Galway to win. Gailimh abu
heartbroken (Galway) - Posts: 370 - 13/08/2017 22:37:52
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I'm hoping Waterford can do it. They deserve it. Incredibly consistent for 15 years or more in getting to last 4.
I think they will do it too. Austin Gleeson won't be a huge loss to them in the way he has played this year. Maurice is far more effective even tho he's always double marked.i wouldn't be too down beat if I was a Waterford man if he is. Conor Gleeson is likely to be the far bigger loss of the twp in the system they play. Gleeson was exceptionally poor until Waterford got ahead today.
Waterford have the hunger but most of all the panel to win it and I'd be very confident they will. A lot of people over stated the level of the tipp galway game. It was a game riddled with errors and Galway are if anything not as good this year as last.
Waterford to do enough for me.
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 13/08/2017 23:41:24
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Replying To ballydalane: "A rule was brought in several years ago to make interference with an opponent's helmet an automatic yellow card offence. This was upgraded a few years ago to an automatic red card offence. I was against this decision for a number of reasons not least because I knew most hurling refs and GAA disciplinary authorities wouldn't have the stomach to enforce it and it would end up creating more controversy, and so it has come to pass.
It would be far better if refs had the freedom to issue a yellow or red card as they saw fit based on the severity of the helmet-pull. For instance, I would put Gleeson's indiscretion today, removing a helmet from a stationary player, on the lower end of the scale, deserving of a yellow, whereas grabbing a player's faceguard in full flight would be much more dangerous and worthy of red card. But with this "all or nothing" rule that's currently in place, refs and linesmen are wilfully choosing not to see these incidents because they don't want to send players off for what, in their heart of hearts, they don't believe to be a genuine sending-off offence." Well it didn't take long for the player apologists to come out and don't worry you are not alone out there on this one. Did you ever have to ref a game? The most important thing is clarity for both players and refs and this one is very clear. Everyone giving about the black card in football and the fact it's left up to the refs opinion so you want to do that across the board for all rules. It would be like making drink driving a warning offence if you are stopped but only punishable if you kill someone. Rules are there because nobody knows if the commit the offence what the consequences could be, you cannot have rules that only exist if players get hurt - that really is the low of understanding the logic behind laws on any level.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1800 - 14/08/2017 00:46:33
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Replying To ballydalane: "A rule was brought in several years ago to make interference with an opponent's helmet an automatic yellow card offence. This was upgraded a few years ago to an automatic red card offence. I was against this decision for a number of reasons not least because I knew most hurling refs and GAA disciplinary authorities wouldn't have the stomach to enforce it and it would end up creating more controversy, and so it has come to pass.
It would be far better if refs had the freedom to issue a yellow or red card as they saw fit based on the severity of the helmet-pull. For instance, I would put Gleeson's indiscretion today, removing a helmet from a stationary player, on the lower end of the scale, deserving of a yellow, whereas grabbing a player's faceguard in full flight would be much more dangerous and worthy of red card. But with this "all or nothing" rule that's currently in place, refs and linesmen are wilfully choosing not to see these incidents because they don't want to send players off for what, in their heart of hearts, they don't believe to be a genuine sending-off offence." Discretion and common sense I'm afraid are not common sense. In GAA would u trust referees with discretion! I would much prefer a rule with a clear sanction. Even if it is a bad rule! Otherwise it is one rule for one and different for the others. Generally I am a great fan of the disciplinary process in rugby but if u look at the discretionary part i.e. the yellow and red cards and the imbalance on the amount of cards given to the All Blacks as opposed to other countries. That is what discretion does!
Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1826 - 14/08/2017 09:19:31
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Replying To tiobraid: "I'm hoping Waterford can do it. They deserve it. Incredibly consistent for 15 years or more in getting to last 4.
I think they will do it too. Austin Gleeson won't be a huge loss to them in the way he has played this year. Maurice is far more effective even tho he's always double marked.i wouldn't be too down beat if I was a Waterford man if he is. Conor Gleeson is likely to be the far bigger loss of the twp in the system they play. Gleeson was exceptionally poor until Waterford got ahead today.
Waterford have the hunger but most of all the panel to win it and I'd be very confident they will. A lot of people over stated the level of the tipp galway game. It was a game riddled with errors and Galway are if anything not as good this year as last.
Waterford to do enough for me." Well I'm sure if tipp were in the all ireland final you would not be complaining we are there and by God we are going to give it a right go.
bud14 (Galway) - Posts: 296 - 14/08/2017 09:30:59
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Replying To zinny: "Well it didn't take long for the player apologists to come out and don't worry you are not alone out there on this one. Did you ever have to ref a game? The most important thing is clarity for both players and refs and this one is very clear. Everyone giving about the black card in football and the fact it's left up to the refs opinion so you want to do that across the board for all rules. It would be like making drink driving a warning offence if you are stopped but only punishable if you kill someone. Rules are there because nobody knows if the commit the offence what the consequences could be, you cannot have rules that only exist if players get hurt - that really is the low of understanding the logic behind laws on any level." Well, they had a clear law on helmet interference, a yellow card. Then they upgraded it to a red card which has led to the current farce because a lot of refs and disciplinary authorities don't have the stomach to enforce it. So, deprived of the option of giving "minor" helmet interference a yellow card, many refs choose to pretend they never saw it.
ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 14/08/2017 09:33:18
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Great to see a novel pairing in the final. Two teams I would ordinarily want to see winning. Will be rooting for Galway on this occasion.
offyertrolley (Leitrim) - Posts: 141 - 14/08/2017 09:57:51
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Replying To lowandhard: "Will the SG highlight the Austin Gleeson incident tonight. Waterford supporters on here looked to make a meal of the Adrian Tuohy incident last week. Now look how that has come back to bite. Should Austin Gleeson be banned for the All Ireland final? Yes, he grabbed the face guard and pulled the helmet of. simple as that. Rules are rules !! Conor Gleeson might have a better chance of "getting off " the red card for striking the Cork player. Could be reduced to a yellow for careless play - Conor could get off because of Austin. Neither player should play in the All Ireland final if the rules are enforced." Rules won't be enforced hopefully. I think the rules are rubbish and too harsh a sanction for both Gleesons. Yellows would have been plenty for all concerned.
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 14/08/2017 10:01:17
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Will be difficult to get a ticket for this one I'd say.Great to see these two teams in the final and the build up will be amazing for all involved.
You would have to look at consistency again though in applying the rules regarding helmet interference as they clearly don't exist.
catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 14/08/2017 10:02:20
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Replying To ballydalane: "A rule was brought in several years ago to make interference with an opponent's helmet an automatic yellow card offence. This was upgraded a few years ago to an automatic red card offence. I was against this decision for a number of reasons not least because I knew most hurling refs and GAA disciplinary authorities wouldn't have the stomach to enforce it and it would end up creating more controversy, and so it has come to pass.
It would be far better if refs had the freedom to issue a yellow or red card as they saw fit based on the severity of the helmet-pull. For instance, I would put Gleeson's indiscretion today, removing a helmet from a stationary player, on the lower end of the scale, deserving of a yellow, whereas grabbing a player's faceguard in full flight would be much more dangerous and worthy of red card. But with this "all or nothing" rule that's currently in place, refs and linesmen are wilfully choosing not to see these incidents because they don't want to send players off for what, in their heart of hearts, they don't believe to be a genuine sending-off offence." Nail hit on head by you Sir. That's the nub of the whole issue. Your summation of how it should be reffed is 100%. You cannot issue a red for every helmet pull..outlandish.
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 14/08/2017 10:05:57
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Replying To bud14: "Well I'm sure if tipp were in the all ireland final you would not be complaining we are there and by God we are going to give it a right go." Eh??
I'm not sure what to make of that response. What have Tipp got to with my point...
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 14/08/2017 10:11:12
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Replying To clondalkindub: "Come on man that's the bleeding extreme , if you punch a player you could kill him aswell but should a player get a year suspension for throwing a punch knowing how dangerous it could be? What Gleeson did was not one bit dangerous , I don't know about yous but I want to see the best players playing. If it's a dirty stroke then fair enough but for pulling a helmet off come on that's ridiculous." But why do it. ???? Ball was dead whistle was gone and luke meade was lying on the ground. I agree with other poster. For the sheer stupidity of it alone he should get a ban. Its fine to say no damage was done but what if it did do damage. Do we wait to see how a player is before we decide on an infraction. You cant touch a fellas face guard. Simple as that you cant do it and if you do its a ban. we all know the rules so why is this such a debate. If we cant follow the rules do we just throw away the rule book ????
ritchie (Cork) - Posts: 346 - 14/08/2017 10:25:13
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Replying To ritchie: "But why do it. ???? Ball was dead whistle was gone and luke meade was lying on the ground. I agree with other poster. For the sheer stupidity of it alone he should get a ban. Its fine to say no damage was done but what if it did do damage. Do we wait to see how a player is before we decide on an infraction. You cant touch a fellas face guard. Simple as that you cant do it and if you do its a ban. we all know the rules so why is this such a debate. If we cant follow the rules do we just throw away the rule book ????" Agreed. I'd be fuming with Gleeson if I was Derek McGrath
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 14/08/2017 10:37:53
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Replying To ballydalane: "A rule was brought in several years ago to make interference with an opponent's helmet an automatic yellow card offence. This was upgraded a few years ago to an automatic red card offence. I was against this decision for a number of reasons not least because I knew most hurling refs and GAA disciplinary authorities wouldn't have the stomach to enforce it and it would end up creating more controversy, and so it has come to pass.
It would be far better if refs had the freedom to issue a yellow or red card as they saw fit based on the severity of the helmet-pull. For instance, I would put Gleeson's indiscretion today, removing a helmet from a stationary player, on the lower end of the scale, deserving of a yellow, whereas grabbing a player's faceguard in full flight would be much more dangerous and worthy of red card. But with this "all or nothing" rule that's currently in place, refs and linesmen are wilfully choosing not to see these incidents because they don't want to send players off for what, in their heart of hearts, they don't believe to be a genuine sending-off offence." Super post Ballydalane to be fair. Spot on.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 14/08/2017 11:01:37
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I will be rooting for Galway. Much better hurlers.
rebeltrev (Cork) - Posts: 344 - 14/08/2017 11:13:32
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Replying To ritchie: "But why do it. ???? Ball was dead whistle was gone and luke meade was lying on the ground. I agree with other poster. For the sheer stupidity of it alone he should get a ban. Its fine to say no damage was done but what if it did do damage. Do we wait to see how a player is before we decide on an infraction. You cant touch a fellas face guard. Simple as that you cant do it and if you do its a ban. we all know the rules so why is this such a debate. If we cant follow the rules do we just throw away the rule book ????" I couldn't agree more, with so much hype over pulling off helmets, it was stupidity of the highest order for Austin Gleeson or any other player to pull another players helmet off. Yes Adrian Tuohy was very lucky to get off, but leaving the Galway hat off for a minute, Austins definitely looks a lot worse. However in saying that I hope that he doesn't get banned for the final, but in all fairness any player from here on in that attempts to or pulls the helmet off another player, should get banned on the grounds of stupidity alone, not to mention it's an extremely dangerous act that deserves the sanctions that were brought in for it. Anyway back to the hurling, great win for Waterford yesterday, and I am genuinely concerned that they will beat Galway in three weeks time. I would actually love to see Waterford win an All Ireland, obviously not on this occasion, but they will have a tidal wave of emotion behind them, not to mention that they are an extremely well drilled, focused, tactically aware side who will take some beating. IT's going to be some final, 58 years of hurt for Waterford, 29 for Galway, roll on September the 3rd.
gilly0512 (Galway) - Posts: 1176 - 14/08/2017 11:18:03
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