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CASEMENT, BELFAST AND ANTRIM

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As Dublin win 5 in a row the blue juggernaut rolls on and there doesn't seem to be any opposition or way to stop it. The Jacks and Jackeens laud it up, rightly, the GAA hierarchy, media, sponsors, advertisers all seem content to go with the flow and laud the annual coronation on the Hill. The Dubs success "ISN'T about money" they say out of the side of their mouths and even if it was well don't Dublin deserve and need it BECAUSE of the population size as they all nod in agreement and smug satisfaction. Meanwhile 100 miles up the road in Ireland's SECOND city BELFAST, and in the wider county of Antrim, Gaelic Games are struggling and in some places dying. If Dublin's funding is ALL about population where is our share we ask? We haven't even got a decent county ground in the name of Good Lord. The GAA and media shoot a glance the other away, holler "Look.............Squirrel" then collectively Whistle Dixie. Deflection, hypocrisy and double standards are alive and well within the Association.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9696 - 22/09/2019 00:54:54    2238161

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https://antrim.gaa.ie/news/gaelfast-launched

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 22/09/2019 09:12:06    2238191

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I thought this was gonna be an interesting topic, but it's just another anti Dublin post,

DuhallowRed (Cork) - Posts: 267 - 22/09/2019 09:46:41    2238196

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As I understand it the Casement Park new stadium stalled due to local planning objections.

tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 22/09/2019 10:32:58    2238206

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Replying To tyroneed:  "As I understand it the Casement Park new stadium stalled due to local planning objections."
Don't get me wrong. We have problems within the county and at provincial level too. There is too much division amongst the clubs and a lot of opposition and resentment from other Ulster counties about Casement. A lot of the Tyrone crowd are very anti Belfast. That still doesn't give the fact that Ireland's second city has been abysmally treated and shamefully ignored by Croke Park for decades.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9696 - 22/09/2019 11:02:11    2238210

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Replying To tyroneed:  "As I understand it the Casement Park new stadium stalled due to local planning objections."
Don't get me wrong. We have problems within the county and at provincial level too. There is too much division amongst the clubs and a lot of opposition and resentment from other Ulster counties about Casement. A lot of the Tyrone crowd are very anti Belfast. That still doesn't hide the fact that Ireland's second city has been abysmally treated and shamefully ignored by Croke Park for decades.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9696 - 22/09/2019 11:02:49    2238211

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Id be a big backer of Casement and big provincial stadiums generally, the amount of games in Corker needs to be decentralized. I would also be a big advocate of developing games in big and highly populated counties in Ulster.

Derry, Antrim and Down particularly. The elephant in the room though it is that its hard to judge the demographic there given the cultural divide and much of the population there not identifying with Gaelic games for obvious reasons. What i would say that shouldn't be an argument for a lack of investment, but perhaps a reason why their should be a massive development. How great would it be the GAA put in a huge investment and attracted more and more players from both sides of the cultural divide.

What i really dont like and its visible on here at times, is people going on about counties ties to Britain and Unionism or going on about republicanism, history and tradition are important and beliefs are important personally. But its the 21st century and surely self sustaining confidence in our own identity and nationality is strong enough at this stage, not to push those narratives and forget those mindsets and welcome different communities into the GAA for the betterment of those communities and development of games. It would be brilliant if we could make inroads across divides and attract new generation of "Irish people" to GAA. Certainly worthy of a big investment in my view. Clearly though that is a long term piece, that would need to evolve and patience would need be needed.

Gaelfest is a worthy start, my understanding is that the problem with Casement isnt the commitment on the GAA's behalf but the planning procedure and lack of political structure in the north at the moment. What it has to do with Dublin is beyond me, thats not healthy to be honest.

But lessons can be learned from Dublin in my view, big population centers can carry the Dublin model in a way rural counties cant. The dual funding model can be achieved on a smaller scale between clubs and county boards, given the size of demographic in bigger population centers and Antrim, Derry and Down are just huge.

I also often wonder, with little knowledge of it, but is there any way counties in the north can apply for funding on a cultural basis for development of Gaelic games from the government either in the North or Westminster as it is presently. Seems there is often investment in projects on both sides of the cultural divide in safeguarding and developing communities cultures, that the GAA and games development seems like an obvious one given its civic and community role to. I just wonder if there is a pathway there for support? The same way the GAA receive 3 mill annually form the Irish Sports Council in the south?

If Derry, Down and Antrim received new bigger investment, there would be zero complaints from me, would be great, but would need a very strategic model along the lines of the Dublin model fro sustainability with all the obvious nuances considered.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 22/09/2019 11:36:56    2238216

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "As Dublin win 5 in a row the blue juggernaut rolls on and there doesn't seem to be any opposition or way to stop it. The Jacks and Jackeens laud it up, rightly, the GAA hierarchy, media, sponsors, advertisers all seem content to go with the flow and laud the annual coronation on the Hill. The Dubs success "ISN'T about money" they say out of the side of their mouths and even if it was well don't Dublin deserve and need it BECAUSE of the population size as they all nod in agreement and smug satisfaction. Meanwhile 100 miles up the road in Ireland's SECOND city BELFAST, and in the wider county of Antrim, Gaelic Games are struggling and in some places dying. If Dublin's funding is ALL about population where is our share we ask? We haven't even got a decent county ground in the name of Good Lord. The GAA and media shoot a glance the other away, holler "Look.............Squirrel" then collectively Whistle Dixie. Deflection, hypocrisy and double standards are alive and well within the Association."
Same old "poor me" again banging on about wheres our share!! You say "If Dublin's funding is ALL about population where is our share we ask?" Look at the stats from 2015 and Donegal has more of a playing population than Antrim with Antrim just over 10,000 and Donegal just over 13,000. We can all play that card!!
I do concede that Antrim have been treated poorly in the Casement debacle but as we all know with the top echelon of the GAA they will never admit they were wrong. The Casement project should be scrapped in it current form and a proper county ground be developed for the people of Antrim. With Brexit looming and cross border funding through political means becoming less likely then the majority funding for the provincial Casement project looks doomed. It's time the GAA looked into pushing ahead with redeveloping Clones as the main provincial ground in Ulster. The biggest stumbling block to that is the Ulster Council themselves with the majority of the board being from the 6 counties.
I'll await your usual poor us in the 6 counties response.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 22/09/2019 12:33:22    2238227

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As we have seen with the whole PUC mess, the organisation & oversight of major capital infrastructural projects within the GAA is very very badly run. The Casement Park case is a brillant example. Why a functioning ground & stadium was let go & fall into total disrepair, instead of continuing to use it until everything such as planning & funding was in place, beggars belief. The GAA rode over everything, instead of consulting & informing residents & having the funding secured, they went on the big PR spin & are now left with egg on their face.
If actuarial assessment was done of the all the GAA's capital infrastructural developments (with the exception of Croke Park) was carried out it would show that these seldom used stadiums are soaking up huge amounts of capital with a very poor return. If these monies had been poured into the local communities it would have a much better return. Casement Park is indicative of very poor leadership at the top of the organisation & much hand wringing by passing the buck onto to county boards & provincial councils. Those handsomely paid individuals who run the Association must take responsibility. Casement Park, Walsh Park, Pairc Tailteann, Louth etc are all paying the price for largesse in grounds such as PUC & Mc Hale Park. Govt's monies will dry up as well, ever since the three different figures given for PUC, when nobody seemed to know the spend or could agree on it.
Casement Park was a good ground, decent pitch, stand, social club & terraces, why the weeds were allowed to take over & the stand allowed decay is an indictment on leadership within the Association. At this stage Casement Park as envisaged will not happen with the current political situation & an economic downturn on the way.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 22/09/2019 12:42:16    2238231

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Replying To Tir Conaill Abu:  "Same old "poor me" again banging on about wheres our share!! You say "If Dublin's funding is ALL about population where is our share we ask?" Look at the stats from 2015 and Donegal has more of a playing population than Antrim with Antrim just over 10,000 and Donegal just over 13,000. We can all play that card!!
I do concede that Antrim have been treated poorly in the Casement debacle but as we all know with the top echelon of the GAA they will never admit they were wrong. The Casement project should be scrapped in it current form and a proper county ground be developed for the people of Antrim. With Brexit looming and cross border funding through political means becoming less likely then the majority funding for the provincial Casement project looks doomed. It's time the GAA looked into pushing ahead with redeveloping Clones as the main provincial ground in Ulster. The biggest stumbling block to that is the Ulster Council themselves with the majority of the board being from the 6 counties.
I'll await your usual poor us in the 6 counties response."
You make my point superbly. There's as much opposition to Belfast and Antrim from within Ulster and there's a massive partitionist narrative in your reply as well.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9696 - 22/09/2019 13:21:54    2238238

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Replying To Whammo86:  "https://antrim.gaa.ie/news/gaelfast-launched"
That's giving a paltry 200k a year to Antrim. The county has a population about half that of Dublin. Going by the funding Dublin gets why hasn't Antrim been getting about €600k per annum since 2004 for underage development? I can tell you right now if they got Dublin level funding since 2004 they'd be much better at football and hurling.

The GAA are a disgrace.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 22/09/2019 13:41:03    2238245

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Replying To Jack_Goff:  "That's giving a paltry 200k a year to Antrim. The county has a population about half that of Dublin. Going by the funding Dublin gets why hasn't Antrim been getting about €600k per annum since 2004 for underage development? I can tell you right now if they got Dublin level funding since 2004 they'd be much better at football and hurling.

The GAA are a disgrace."
Belfast, not Antrim is the area covered by Gaelfast.

It's population is roughly 4.5 times less than county Dublin.

The rest of Antrim will still have development officers assigned to them but paid for by the Ulster council.

Antrim didn't previously ask for funding to run a Dublin style project.

We did ask and receive funding for a centre of excellence, which was unusable for a long time after 'completion' because it failed health and safety requirements with emergency vehicles unable to gain access.

The Casement park debacle wasn't HQs doing and I'm sure we'll get support for whatever project that becomes in future.

Your description of a >£200k a year commitment, really irritates me. It's going to get the ball rolling on an excellent project to get a coordination between schools and local GAA clubs.

Foundations really have to be built in Belfast and the rest of Antrim and this is a really positive step.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 22/09/2019 14:43:34    2238257

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Replying To Jack_Goff:  "That's giving a paltry 200k a year to Antrim. The county has a population about half that of Dublin. Going by the funding Dublin gets why hasn't Antrim been getting about €600k per annum since 2004 for underage development? I can tell you right now if they got Dublin level funding since 2004 they'd be much better at football and hurling.

The GAA are a disgrace."
This "population to funding" example needs to be knocked on the head. Larger cities have larger populations but there is a very high % of that population that will never have any interest in the GAA or participating in its games. Cork, Dublin, Galway, Limerick, Belfast etc. have all been multicultural for the best part of 20 years yet look at the % of players from non-irish parents playing at the top level.
If we are to assign funding on population figures then it needs to be per registered player in each county. This will still show that Dublin does get a high percentage of funding and the ratio will still be shown above other counties but not the sensational figures that are being thrown about by Antrim, Meath and other counties that are looking for an excuse rather than looking at their own systems and player development.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 22/09/2019 15:04:41    2238263

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Replying To Tir Conaill Abu:  "This "population to funding" example needs to be knocked on the head. Larger cities have larger populations but there is a very high % of that population that will never have any interest in the GAA or participating in its games. Cork, Dublin, Galway, Limerick, Belfast etc. have all been multicultural for the best part of 20 years yet look at the % of players from non-irish parents playing at the top level.
If we are to assign funding on population figures then it needs to be per registered player in each county. This will still show that Dublin does get a high percentage of funding and the ratio will still be shown above other counties but not the sensational figures that are being thrown about by Antrim, Meath and other counties that are looking for an excuse rather than looking at their own systems and player development."
No logic to this statement.

So you are saying the populations in the biy cities that are 'not GAA' should not be targeted??

Or is it becuase you realise that this is where Dublin have been ploughing in their money and hence the huge numbers increase in playing population at underage

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 22/09/2019 16:32:49    2238283

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "As Dublin win 5 in a row the blue juggernaut rolls on and there doesn't seem to be any opposition or way to stop it. The Jacks and Jackeens laud it up, rightly, the GAA hierarchy, media, sponsors, advertisers all seem content to go with the flow and laud the annual coronation on the Hill. The Dubs success "ISN'T about money" they say out of the side of their mouths and even if it was well don't Dublin deserve and need it BECAUSE of the population size as they all nod in agreement and smug satisfaction. Meanwhile 100 miles up the road in Ireland's SECOND city BELFAST, and in the wider county of Antrim, Gaelic Games are struggling and in some places dying. If Dublin's funding is ALL about population where is our share we ask? We haven't even got a decent county ground in the name of Good Lord. The GAA and media shoot a glance the other away, holler "Look.............Squirrel" then collectively Whistle Dixie. Deflection, hypocrisy and double standards are alive and well within the Association."
Slow down there lad. If you think that the media have been "lauding it over Dublin" in the past week then perhaps you may need to look beyond The Irish News or whatever it is you're reading. There has been nothing but past players falling over each other to bring up the subjects of money, population and division of the county. This is in "the Dublin based media" as you like to call it, when it suits you. Even O'Rourke was on his high horse this week. Do you not get RTE in the 6 counties these days? A disgracefully timed Prime Time episode airing to attempt to diminish this great team's achievements. The charge of course was coming from the usual source, a sports hack now living in South America who seems to spend his every waking hour attacking Dublin GAS on Twitter. That win was just for you EM. It's funny that you should mention Belfast's population. How come you never raise this in the context of Dublin's population? You can't just raise it on the grounds of funding and then dismiss it when it comes to talking about advantages. Which is it? I once raised it and was shot down by an Ulster poster as half of Belfast will never play GAAI was told. I hesitated to point out that about half of Dublin is either non-national, from the country or anti-GAA anyway. Look lad you can't have it every way. I look forward to the day when Casement completes but leave the Champs out of it. Lobby your CB.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 22/09/2019 19:17:04    2238315

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Replying To Tir Conaill Abu:  "This "population to funding" example needs to be knocked on the head. Larger cities have larger populations but there is a very high % of that population that will never have any interest in the GAA or participating in its games. Cork, Dublin, Galway, Limerick, Belfast etc. have all been multicultural for the best part of 20 years yet look at the % of players from non-irish parents playing at the top level.
If we are to assign funding on population figures then it needs to be per registered player in each county. This will still show that Dublin does get a high percentage of funding and the ratio will still be shown above other counties but not the sensational figures that are being thrown about by Antrim, Meath and other counties that are looking for an excuse rather than looking at their own systems and player development."
It should not be just on registered players per county.

The purpose of development money is for development, grow the game as it has and continues to do in Dublin.

The growth potential is going to be high in a high population area with currently low participation rates.

The rural to urban migration that continues in Ireland is changing the demographics in Ireland.

It's also wrong to assume for instance that the children of non-Irish nationals won't play Gaelic games. They are and they do.

It's just one person but a Belarusian colleague of mine's Irish born son is playing. His friends play and his dad likes it because it's the best organized of the sports in Dublin.

I do accept though that more than population has to be considered, for instance, there shouldn't be the same amount per person going to the lower Shankhill as there is to North Donegal.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 22/09/2019 19:55:28    2238331

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Replying To witnof:  "No logic to this statement.

So you are saying the populations in the biy cities that are 'not GAA' should not be targeted??

Or is it becuase you realise that this is where Dublin have been ploughing in their money and hence the huge numbers increase in playing population at underage"
Not saying that at all witnof. Indeed they should be targeted. What I'm saying is that the arguments are being made that Dublin has a total population of x times every other county but the playing population is how funds should be allocated. The clubs should be trying to enlarge their membership each year and encourage as many into the games as possible. The FUNDING should be delivered to each county based on their registration for each year March to the following February. The lack of success by any large population, be that a town within a county, or a county within the island is down to their lack of organisation and channeling their funding into the right paths.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 22/09/2019 20:35:59    2238342

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RTE sports have attacked the GAA for years. So don't mind them. They are nearly broke now.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2517 - 22/09/2019 20:40:06    2238346

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Replying To Joxer:  "Slow down there lad. If you think that the media have been "lauding it over Dublin" in the past week then perhaps you may need to look beyond The Irish News or whatever it is you're reading. There has been nothing but past players falling over each other to bring up the subjects of money, population and division of the county. This is in "the Dublin based media" as you like to call it, when it suits you. Even O'Rourke was on his high horse this week. Do you not get RTE in the 6 counties these days? A disgracefully timed Prime Time episode airing to attempt to diminish this great team's achievements. The charge of course was coming from the usual source, a sports hack now living in South America who seems to spend his every waking hour attacking Dublin GAS on Twitter. That win was just for you EM. It's funny that you should mention Belfast's population. How come you never raise this in the context of Dublin's population? You can't just raise it on the grounds of funding and then dismiss it when it comes to talking about advantages. Which is it? I once raised it and was shot down by an Ulster poster as half of Belfast will never play GAAI was told. I hesitated to point out that about half of Dublin is either non-national, from the country or anti-GAA anyway. Look lad you can't have it every way. I look forward to the day when Casement completes but leave the Champs out of it. Lobby your CB."
Joxer, I was always one of the first ones on here to congratulate Dublin's success and I have always stipulated how important they are for the Association. This is a great side, very resilient and don't know when they are beaten. They will take their place in the pantheon. Likewise most of the Dub fans bring colour, atmosphere and passion to our games and I don't resent their days in the sun and they have experienced the bad days.
I am only looking for SOME semblance of fairness. I don't expect full equality for Antrim and Belfast with Dublin, I am not that stupid or naive. However Gaelic Games in our city and county are struggling and we feel a bit abandoned and isolated by the Association. Furthermore the GAA are missing a massive potential of players and income by not fully embracing Belfast and it's surrounding areas. When we got to the Ulster final a few years ago against Tyrone, Belfast and the wider county was ablaze with the Saffron colours. The kids were all excited and the GAA missed a trick there by not grasping the interest. There are 10's of 1000's of Irish people in Belfast who feel just as Irish as those in Clontarf, Finglas, Ballymun and Swords. Maybe some day the GAA will acknowledge and act on this.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9696 - 22/09/2019 21:32:40    2238366

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That whole casement park fiasco is an absolute disgrace.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1898 - 22/09/2019 21:48:03    2238372

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