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Poor state of football in rural Ireland

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Our 2011 side had regressed from the year before. It took until 2014 to win a minor All-Ireland. You'd be looking at 5 years from 2014 before getting back to any decent level. Throw into the mix Australia plundering rural Ireland, we're in choppy waters.

With Tyrone and Kerry having regressed after 2010, no other county has taken up their mantle. Some rural counties are uncomfortable at the spotlight being shone on their shortcomings at inter-county level."
Regressed, or just consistently beaten by a team who raised the standard, it's a point we are likely to agree on, i however backed it up that Kerry have been beaten consistently by Dublin almost every year, the year they didn't they one the all Ireland which kind of underlines my point really. Tyrone were beaten by Dublin in 2011 also with multiple all Ireland winners in their team. Seems teams only regress when Dublin consistently beat them. Counties are getting close, your own included and without Dublin this decade would be like any other, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal would all have titles and rural Ireland wouldn't be in "crisis". There is no crisis, just the best team dominating really and a higher standard of football has been achieved holistically that competing counties just haven't achieved, like I say Dublin will regress and other counties will win Sam again, ha and the crisis will be adverted.

On a separate note, it must be the last year Kerry will line out with some of the class of 09, sad in a way they were a very good team for that time.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 21/03/2017 21:01:12    1969719

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@ TheUsername - This thread is nothing to do with the capital. It's supposed to be a Big Smoke free zone! ;-)

We regressed after 2010, your crowd have been at a consistent level since 2005. 2011 marked that being on par being above our regressed level. It's a discussion for a different thread.

Tyrone and Kerry's regression since their 2010 championship exits has coincided with the poor state of football in rural Ireland at inter-county level.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7822 - 21/03/2017 21:49:40    1969749

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Our 2011 side had regressed from the year before. It took until 2014 to win a minor All-Ireland. You'd be looking at 5 years from 2014 before getting back to any decent level. Throw into the mix Australia plundering rural Ireland, we're in choppy waters.

With Tyrone and Kerry having regressed after 2010, no other county has taken up their mantle. Some rural counties are uncomfortable at the spotlight being shone on their shortcomings at inter-county level."
The only person shining a spotlight on rural Ireland's shortcomings is you so not many will feel too worried.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 21/03/2017 21:56:53    1969752

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Replying To legendzxix:  "@ TheUsername - This thread is nothing to do with the capital. It's supposed to be a Big Smoke free zone! ;-)

We regressed after 2010, your crowd have been at a consistent level since 2005. 2011 marked that being on par being above our regressed level. It's a discussion for a different thread.

Tyrone and Kerry's regression since their 2010 championship exits has coincided with the poor state of football in rural Ireland at inter-county level."
It doesn't make it real because you say it mate and you havnt backed anything up your just bdogmatic in you opinion and thats fair enough. Like I say the facts speak for themselves Kerry, Mayo etc would be winning all Ireland's at their current standard if not for a Dublin team at a higher standard. The facts are there, Kerry have been beaten in semi and finals as have Mayo. I don't see how that failure in the lament of rural football broadly, especially given the context of some rural counties achievements.

I don't think it's particularly helpful to review other counties success and achievements when really Kerry have failed more then any one when it comes to a tilt at honours this decade. Rationalisation is a powerful coping mechininism, you can talk of regression, you can talk of neglecting youth if it helps sootn , I understand.

I don't think it particularly constructive calling out other counties whether they be rural or not, when one of the highest frequent cry of failures in the past decade when a battle was played has been your own county. That's not a knock of Kerry by the way, whom I have a huge respect for as a footballing county, more your approach to posting and what seems like a right to judge other counties.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 21/03/2017 23:44:27    1969792

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Replying To legendzxix:  "@ TheUsername - This thread is nothing to do with the capital. It's supposed to be a Big Smoke free zone! ;-)

We regressed after 2010, your crowd have been at a consistent level since 2005. 2011 marked that being on par being above our regressed level. It's a discussion for a different thread.

Tyrone and Kerry's regression since their 2010 championship exits has coincided with the poor state of football in rural Ireland at inter-county level."
I've been thinking Legendzx, there might actually be something to your theory of Dublin-Stagnation/The Rest-Regression. In fairness, we've seen parallels throughout the history of the game.

For example, many people will remember Dublin had a very good side in the mid 70s. When that teams performance levels dropped in the late 70s, it of course left them behind an average, stagnant Kerry side.

And with all other counties playing so poorly and at such a low standard, it allowed said average Kerry side to dominate for a decade, until the great Meath and Cork teams of the late80s arrived on the scene, and finally rescued the game from the putrid muck served up over the previous decade.

The similarities are uncanny, no?

extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 375 - 22/03/2017 11:41:41    1969898

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The capital haven't come up against a great team since the August Bank Holiday weekend of 2009.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts:5217 - 19/03/2017 19:46:51

From the 1976 All-Ireland final, until the 1987 Munster final, Kerry didn't come up against 1 great team.
Discuss.

extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 375 - 22/03/2017 11:46:34    1969899

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Replying To TheUsername:  "It doesn't make it real because you say it mate and you havnt backed anything up your just bdogmatic in you opinion and thats fair enough. Like I say the facts speak for themselves Kerry, Mayo etc would be winning all Ireland's at their current standard if not for a Dublin team at a higher standard. The facts are there, Kerry have been beaten in semi and finals as have Mayo. I don't see how that failure in the lament of rural football broadly, especially given the context of some rural counties achievements.

I don't think it's particularly helpful to review other counties success and achievements when really Kerry have failed more then any one when it comes to a tilt at honours this decade. Rationalisation is a powerful coping mechininism, you can talk of regression, you can talk of neglecting youth if it helps sootn , I understand.

I don't think it particularly constructive calling out other counties whether they be rural or not, when one of the highest frequent cry of failures in the past decade when a battle was played has been your own county. That's not a knock of Kerry by the way, whom I have a huge respect for as a footballing county, more your approach to posting and what seems like a right to judge other counties."
The username
Legend has a point that the Kerry team in this decade isn't a patch on the Kerry team from the last decade, I mean donnacha walsh maher Moran darran O'Sullivan were only bit part players in the later naughties (subs) but they're the main men on our team now.

The Tyrone team of the naughties and the cork team were savage as were Armagh and Galway and mayo for a while , Dublin were probably at the same standard their at now but all the other teams have dropped off seriously so ye look awesome all together at the moment.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 22/03/2017 12:01:49    1969907

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "The username
Legend has a point that the Kerry team in this decade isn't a patch on the Kerry team from the last decade, I mean donnacha walsh maher Moran darran O'Sullivan were only bit part players in the later naughties (subs) but they're the main men on our team now.

The Tyrone team of the naughties and the cork team were savage as were Armagh and Galway and mayo for a while , Dublin were probably at the same standard their at now but all the other teams have dropped off seriously so ye look awesome all together at the moment."
I would respectively disagree mate and thankfully our confidence comes from within, thankfully the popular vernacular already talks of the greatness of this team and their place in the history of great teams is already assured and i think the country wide adulation and respect the team gets and the beauty of the football has been acknowledged enough.

Thankfully we are putting together another team thats bubbling under the surface and this run of success looks like it has a good chance of continuing into the next cycle, when your good selves should be competitive with some minors coming through.

Dublin and Kerry fans are blinkered without a doubt. For example, ive heard lads talk about the Kerry team of 00's as not being a great team but rather an opportunist team, Tyrone being the most talented team of the time and Kerry only won silverware by dodging Tyrone, similar to 2014. I wouldn't necessarily prescribe to that theory only as i am fan of some of the football played by Kerry especially in the last part of that decade, but i suppose its fact none the less. Kerry were very good team in 00's, i wouldnt say a great team like a team of the 70/80s, but then as another poster pointed out, after Dublin hammered Kerry twice in the late 70s and the tam got over the hill, did that team really have a challenger. I guess its an accusation you can throw at any great team, like you feel on this current Dublin side.

Not to rail road the thread, i just find it interesting that a Kerry fan is crituqeing individual counties when the frequency of failures of any rural county is Kerrys. I know you lads are saying you have a poor side and i do take that into account.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 22/03/2017 13:18:04    1969945

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "The username
Legend has a point that the Kerry team in this decade isn't a patch on the Kerry team from the last decade, I mean donnacha walsh maher Moran darran O'Sullivan were only bit part players in the later naughties (subs) but they're the main men on our team now.

The Tyrone team of the naughties and the cork team were savage as were Armagh and Galway and mayo for a while , Dublin were probably at the same standard their at now but all the other teams have dropped off seriously so ye look awesome all together at the moment."
I find the second part of this hard to agree with.

If Dublin were at the same standard now as they were at 10 or 15 years ago, they may well have won 'soft all irelands' (which I dont agree with either btw), but how on earth did they win 34 games in a row? You would get found out in the league if you were fluking a rich vein of form in the championship.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 22/03/2017 13:33:25    1969957

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The only person shining a spotlight on rural Ireland's shortcomings is you so not many will feel too worried.
Donegalman (All)

If some rural counties aren't bothered by their low level, it suggests a lack of fire in their bellies.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7822 - 22/03/2017 17:06:22    1970053

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Replying To TheUsername:  "It doesn't make it real because you say it mate and you havnt backed anything up your just bdogmatic in you opinion and thats fair enough. Like I say the facts speak for themselves Kerry, Mayo etc would be winning all Ireland's at their current standard if not for a Dublin team at a higher standard. The facts are there, Kerry have been beaten in semi and finals as have Mayo. I don't see how that failure in the lament of rural football broadly, especially given the context of some rural counties achievements.

I don't think it's particularly helpful to review other counties success and achievements when really Kerry have failed more then any one when it comes to a tilt at honours this decade. Rationalisation is a powerful coping mechininism, you can talk of regression, you can talk of neglecting youth if it helps sootn , I understand.

I don't think it particularly constructive calling out other counties whether they be rural or not, when one of the highest frequent cry of failures in the past decade when a battle was played has been your own county. That's not a knock of Kerry by the way, whom I have a huge respect for as a footballing county, more your approach to posting and what seems like a right to judge other counties."
We've had years on the quiet side before. We're simply getting up and getting on with it. The poor state of inter-county football in rural Ireland has us nearer being contenders. We're in a position similar to '87 to '96.

Unlike others who look at capital advantages of 3 county councils and a city council and all that, we've taken responsibilities as mentioned already for having neglected our youth.

Meath, Kildare and Galway and the likes should be at a more advanced stage.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7822 - 22/03/2017 17:14:19    1970058

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Replying To Donegalman:  "I find the second part of this hard to agree with.

If Dublin were at the same standard now as they were at 10 or 15 years ago, they may well have won 'soft all irelands' (which I dont agree with either btw), but how on earth did they win 34 games in a row? You would get found out in the league if you were fluking a rich vein of form in the championship."
Noone is saying that anyone are fluking a vein of form. They've been consistent since '05. Inter-county football in rural Ireland has regressed after 2010. The best of the inter-county teams in rural Ireland are trying to bring through new players during the league.

Since after 2010 the best of the rural inter-county teams are at least two steps below the Tyrone and Kerry teams of the 00's.

This thread again is supposed to be a big smoke free zone! Kerry and Tyrone have regressed after their 2010 championship exits.

Inter-county football in the rest of the rural counties has not been at a high standard. Looking back again on the late 80's and early 90's, it is rather unfortunate. It's not good for the game that a decent standard is not being set.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7822 - 22/03/2017 17:32:02    1970064

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Replying To legendzxix:  "We've had years on the quiet side before. We're simply getting up and getting on with it. The poor state of inter-county football in rural Ireland has us nearer being contenders. We're in a position similar to '87 to '96.

Unlike others who look at capital advantages of 3 county councils and a city council and all that, we've taken responsibilities as mentioned already for having neglected our youth.

Meath, Kildare and Galway and the likes should be at a more advanced stage."
I have to agree with you mate Kerry football seems rudderless at the moment holistically, no soul or identity in how football is being played, maybe a change of approach in the next few years and getting back to basics may be helpful to yee. In a way its very sad to see, the rivalry has always been competitive it looses its edge when it become so one sided. Hopefully in a few years time yee might challenge for silverware again. Its great that yee still keep going and semi finals appearances arent to be sniffed at.

I take you point on the capital i would be open to a cut in Dublin funding, in fact i believe it happened this year our County board are clever though and i know they have put initiatives in place to counter and likely surpass the cut organically. The county is sufficiently strong for the next 20 years and whats been sewn these years is a thing of beauty to behold at grassroots level and on both sides of the city for the first time ever. Dont know what relevance the county councils, probably a split. I think its more likely Cork and Kerry amalgamating, to form a south Munster then Dublin being split to be honest, when you think about it makes more sense.

I go back to me original point though, i dont see much wrong with rural football to be honet, i enjoy the success of Clare, Tipp, Tyrone, Mayo Fermanagh, Donegal etc. I think its a matter of time before these counties get over the line, the game is always evolving and innovations in some rural counties are at the forefront of the game. Sometimes perceived barriers are just excusues.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 22/03/2017 18:05:38    1970084

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Cutting in funding and sponsorship should be global. Give all to the lower 2 divisions to keep the competition buoyant. This is what they do in AFL in North America. It might give a needed shot in the arm to rural counties? This business of stopping one team getting funded is more to do with preventing them winning an all ireland rather than helping lift standards elsewhere. Someone made a very good point before about where does the buck stop on this. For instance, do we penalize Mayo to allow Leitrim to compete in Connaught? It's not just about one county here.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 22/03/2017 18:39:15    1970089

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I have to agree with you mate Kerry football seems rudderless at the moment holistically, no soul or identity in how football is being played, maybe a change of approach in the next few years and getting back to basics may be helpful to yee. In a way its very sad to see, the rivalry has always been competitive it looses its edge when it become so one sided. Hopefully in a few years time yee might challenge for silverware again. Its great that yee still keep going and semi finals appearances arent to be sniffed at.

I take you point on the capital i would be open to a cut in Dublin funding, in fact i believe it happened this year our County board are clever though and i know they have put initiatives in place to counter and likely surpass the cut organically. The county is sufficiently strong for the next 20 years and whats been sewn these years is a thing of beauty to behold at grassroots level and on both sides of the city for the first time ever. Dont know what relevance the county councils, probably a split. I think its more likely Cork and Kerry amalgamating, to form a south Munster then Dublin being split to be honest, when you think about it makes more sense.

I go back to me original point though, i dont see much wrong with rural football to be honet, i enjoy the success of Clare, Tipp, Tyrone, Mayo Fermanagh, Donegal etc. I think its a matter of time before these counties get over the line, the game is always evolving and innovations in some rural counties are at the forefront of the game. Sometimes perceived barriers are just excusues."
Ye couldn't us for over 30 years and suffered some real hammerings yet only now its 1 sided - I would wait a while before making that proclamation

The most ye beat us was 7 points and that included 2 injury time goals , but if you want to keep running us down by all means do

KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts: 280 - 22/03/2017 18:44:00    1970091

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Replying To Donegalman:  "Cutting in funding and sponsorship should be global. Give all to the lower 2 divisions to keep the competition buoyant. This is what they do in AFL in North America. It might give a needed shot in the arm to rural counties? This business of stopping one team getting funded is more to do with preventing them winning an all ireland rather than helping lift standards elsewhere. Someone made a very good point before about where does the buck stop on this. For instance, do we penalize Mayo to allow Leitrim to compete in Connaught? It's not just about one county here."
There should be a expenditure cap in place to prevent certain teams building huge backroom teams providing all sorts of professional assistance.

No team should require anything other than a medical team, an S+C coach etc - i.e the bare neccesities otherwise money dictates who wins

KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts: 280 - 22/03/2017 18:47:12    1970093

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Replying To Donegalman:  "Cutting in funding and sponsorship should be global. Give all to the lower 2 divisions to keep the competition buoyant. This is what they do in AFL in North America. It might give a needed shot in the arm to rural counties? This business of stopping one team getting funded is more to do with preventing them winning an all ireland rather than helping lift standards elsewhere. Someone made a very good point before about where does the buck stop on this. For instance, do we penalize Mayo to allow Leitrim to compete in Connaught? It's not just about one county here."
Indeed or say Kerry's riches compared to Clare.

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 22/03/2017 18:47:45    1970094

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Replying To Donegalman:  "Cutting in funding and sponsorship should be global. Give all to the lower 2 divisions to keep the competition buoyant. This is what they do in AFL in North America. It might give a needed shot in the arm to rural counties? This business of stopping one team getting funded is more to do with preventing them winning an all ireland rather than helping lift standards elsewhere. Someone made a very good point before about where does the buck stop on this. For instance, do we penalize Mayo to allow Leitrim to compete in Connaught? It's not just about one county here."
Thats a very good post mate, its a concept i hadn't considered before, it would need watertight structures of course.

Personally i wouldnt mind Dublins funding being cut if it improved Carlow, Longford and other Leinster counties who struggle in the open champonship. I would like to see models etc of how the money is used rather then just allocated.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 22/03/2017 18:48:32    1970095

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The resources available to counties at the moment is totally skewed in favour of larger counties and more populous counties

valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1890 - 22/03/2017 18:56:29    1970100

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Regressed, or just consistently beaten by a team who raised the standard, it's a point we are likely to agree on, i however backed it up that Kerry have been beaten consistently by Dublin almost every year, the year they didn't they one the all Ireland which kind of underlines my point really. Tyrone were beaten by Dublin in 2011 also with multiple all Ireland winners in their team. Seems teams only regress when Dublin consistently beat them. Counties are getting close, your own included and without Dublin this decade would be like any other, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal would all have titles and rural Ireland wouldn't be in "crisis". There is no crisis, just the best team dominating really and a higher standard of football has been achieved holistically that competing counties just haven't achieved, like I say Dublin will regress and other counties will win Sam again, ha and the crisis will be adverted.

On a separate note, it must be the last year Kerry will line out with some of the class of 09, sad in a way they were a very good team for that time."
Two ways of looking at it The Username. 1. Dublin have raised the standard, possibly, probably. They have good squad depth and strong players in every position. They have used sports science and training methods to great effect as well.

2. Standards have dropped. There is absolutely no doubt about this in my mind. How many of the current Kerry, Tyrone, Cork or Armagh teams would get in their 00's sides. A handful in each case I'd guess, if even, and all three have serious weak spots at the minute. If their 00's equivalents were around today would Dublin have 4 titles from the last 6? Very very doubtful in my opinion. Yes they look incredible at times but the opposition in their way isn't great in all fairness. Mayo have been decent and Donegal were class for one year but outside that?

Truth is somewhere in the middle maybe. This Dublin side will go down as one of the best ever. There can never be a definitive best team ever as it's purely down to opinion. If Dublin win the next 10 in a row ill probably still never concede they are the best ever for example :)

As for the rural Ireland stuff, teams are cyclical and most of them outside Dublin are struggling a bit at county level at the moment. It can change quickly. Donegal look to be putting a nice young side together and Cork, Tyrone, Mayo and Kerry are always going to be around. The OP is just stirring, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have some sort of point.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 22/03/2017 19:13:54    1970107

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