National Forum

Try Hurling 'Super 10' (incl Prov Championships)

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To counter the football saturation in July/Aug, we could have a 'Super 10' for hurling, without getting rid of the strong Munster Championship. Here goes - Have a 'Qualifier Rd Robin' to get down to KO 'Munster 5' and 'Leinster 5'. Then as KO Prov pairings unfold, split the two between Groups A and B. Say, Muns QF loser to A, winner to B, and therefore, B SF bye opponent to A. From other Muns SF, place winner in A and loser in B. Do similar with Lein, starting with QF loser to B. To complete the 'Super 10', all in A plays all in B for a 5-match schedule. AI KO SFs are 1st in A v (2nd or 3rd QF winner in A) and 1st in B v (2nd or 3rd QF winner in B). In the '5v5, Super 10', there will be 25 matches, incorporating 8 from the Provs.

omahant (USA) - 07/03/2017 17:56:48    1965163

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"Tony kelly has made a lot of sense.. do you think the munster teams really care bout a munster title, waterford want an all ireland as do tipp and limerick. Cork won munster in 2013 but clare the big price, who is remembered??? 8 to 10 team super championship in three divisions with relegation of maybe two teams. Sex it up with good promotional adds and you would see every kid in wexford and limerick wanting to play hurling!!! Scrap the league and play lenister and munster championship early in year as a strong warm up competition. The old saying quality over quantity and with good planning there would be plenty of time for clubs inbetween.. All finals on same day in croke park with early minor final. What a way to promote hurling!!!! Run football in a similar format maybe"

tonydoranfan (Wexford) - 07/03/2017 19:12:30    1965193

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Omahant..We already have a 2 tier system in hurling so your plan could easily be implemented and without much resistance . It uses the provincials as a sort of seeding system for the super 10. Its a good idea. Only problem would be possibility of a few dead rubbers at the tail end of the super 10 , possibly.

ZUL10 (Clare) - 07/03/2017 19:40:27    1965215

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but this is just another idea to keep the provinces in both codes, old wine in newer bottles. I would like a structure in hurling that has 4 quarter finals though.

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - 07/03/2017 20:47:50    1965249

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Replying To tonydoranfan:  ""Tony kelly has made a lot of sense.. do you think the munster teams really care bout a munster title, waterford want an all ireland as do tipp and limerick. Cork won munster in 2013 but clare the big price, who is remembered??? 8 to 10 team super championship in three divisions with relegation of maybe two teams. Sex it up with good promotional adds and you would see every kid in wexford and limerick wanting to play hurling!!! Scrap the league and play lenister and munster championship early in year as a strong warm up competition. The old saying quality over quantity and with good planning there would be plenty of time for clubs inbetween.. All finals on same day in croke park with early minor final. What a way to promote hurling!!!! Run football in a similar format maybe""
Well obviously the 2013 Munster winners weren't remembered seeing as Limerick won it :)

mike03 (Limerick) - 07/03/2017 20:53:39    1965259

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Replying To ZUL10:  "Omahant..We already have a 2 tier system in hurling so your plan could easily be implemented and without much resistance . It uses the provincials as a sort of seeding system for the super 10. Its a good idea. Only problem would be possibility of a few dead rubbers at the tail end of the super 10 , possibly."
With the top 3 in each going through, hopefully dead rubber risk is reduced, although not eliminated.

omahant (USA) - 07/03/2017 23:00:02    1965298

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Best Format I think for Hurling was the 2012 HDC proposal - 3 Groups of 5 teams- all rounb robins - each team has 2 home and 2 away games Group A(Cork, Tipp, Limerick, Clare, Waterford) - Munster Group B(Kilkenny, Wexford, Dublin, Galway, Offaly) - Leinster Group C(Laois, Westmeath, Carlow, Kerry, Antrim) - Other Two 2 in Group A and B meeting in 'Munster' and 'Leinster' Finals 3rd Place in Group A & B and Top 2 in Group C play off for quarter final spot against provincial runners up - provincial winners into semi final Bottom team in Group C releagted and Christy Ring winners promoted. Simple - provides a good amount of games, each game means something

73forever (Limerick) - 08/03/2017 17:27:20    1965511

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Replying To 73forever:  "Best Format I think for Hurling was the 2012 HDC proposal - 3 Groups of 5 teams- all rounb robins - each team has 2 home and 2 away games Group A(Cork, Tipp, Limerick, Clare, Waterford) - Munster Group B(Kilkenny, Wexford, Dublin, Galway, Offaly) - Leinster Group C(Laois, Westmeath, Carlow, Kerry, Antrim) - Other Two 2 in Group A and B meeting in 'Munster' and 'Leinster' Finals 3rd Place in Group A & B and Top 2 in Group C play off for quarter final spot against provincial runners up - provincial winners into semi final Bottom team in Group C releagted and Christy Ring winners promoted. Simple - provides a good amount of games, each game means something"
Thats actually perfect

Malonemagic (Laois) - 08/03/2017 18:03:11    1965516

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I'll try to keep this brief: The 4 provincial finalists and 4 qualifiers should enter 2 groups of 4. The remaining 6 counties and 2 Christy Ring finalists should enter a second championship with the winner guaranteed a group stage spot in the following year.

legendzxix (Kerry) - 09/03/2017 21:11:23    1965814

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Replying To 73forever:  "Best Format I think for Hurling was the 2012 HDC proposal - 3 Groups of 5 teams- all rounb robins - each team has 2 home and 2 away games Group A(Cork, Tipp, Limerick, Clare, Waterford) - Munster Group B(Kilkenny, Wexford, Dublin, Galway, Offaly) - Leinster Group C(Laois, Westmeath, Carlow, Kerry, Antrim) - Other Two 2 in Group A and B meeting in 'Munster' and 'Leinster' Finals 3rd Place in Group A & B and Top 2 in Group C play off for quarter final spot against provincial runners up - provincial winners into semi final Bottom team in Group C releagted and Christy Ring winners promoted. Simple - provides a good amount of games, each game means something"
Yep I thought the same. My only change would be that the bottom team in B played top in C in playoff so likes of Laois or Carlow etc got a cracking at playing in leinster as a reward for a good year. Offaly nearly in group B based on traditional alone. No dig at Offaly just an observation based on last few years form.

Clareman (Clare) - 10/03/2017 11:13:37    1965921

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Replying To Clareman:  "Yep I thought the same. My only change would be that the bottom team in B played top in C in playoff so likes of Laois or Carlow etc got a cracking at playing in leinster as a reward for a good year. Offaly nearly in group B based on traditional alone. No dig at Offaly just an observation based on last few years form."
That is an ideal solution and really should be pushed for. I don't see why anyone would oppose it either as it is both fair and the potential for dead rubber games is very small.

Soma (UK) - 10/03/2017 11:35:21    1965928

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There are teams such as Meath and possibly Kildare that would also benefit from being in Group C. Meath have a big championship ahead of them this year and i hope they can repeat the performance of 2016.

Brian_Coyote (Antrim) - 10/03/2017 19:06:53    1966058

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Replying To 73forever:  "Best Format I think for Hurling was the 2012 HDC proposal - 3 Groups of 5 teams- all rounb robins - each team has 2 home and 2 away games Group A(Cork, Tipp, Limerick, Clare, Waterford) - Munster Group B(Kilkenny, Wexford, Dublin, Galway, Offaly) - Leinster Group C(Laois, Westmeath, Carlow, Kerry, Antrim) - Other Two 2 in Group A and B meeting in 'Munster' and 'Leinster' Finals 3rd Place in Group A & B and Top 2 in Group C play off for quarter final spot against provincial runners up - provincial winners into semi final Bottom team in Group C releagted and Christy Ring winners promoted. Simple - provides a good amount of games, each game means something"
This is a good simple way to set up an All- Ireland tournament - it is a little more comlicated if you want to incorporate Prov ties as well - mine does that.

omahant (USA) - 11/03/2017 16:07:15    1966175

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Replying To 73forever:  "Best Format I think for Hurling was the 2012 HDC proposal - 3 Groups of 5 teams- all rounb robins - each team has 2 home and 2 away games Group A(Cork, Tipp, Limerick, Clare, Waterford) - Munster Group B(Kilkenny, Wexford, Dublin, Galway, Offaly) - Leinster Group C(Laois, Westmeath, Carlow, Kerry, Antrim) - Other Two 2 in Group A and B meeting in 'Munster' and 'Leinster' Finals 3rd Place in Group A & B and Top 2 in Group C play off for quarter final spot against provincial runners up - provincial winners into semi final Bottom team in Group C releagted and Christy Ring winners promoted. Simple - provides a good amount of games, each game means something"
It's not bad. Home and away games seem a bit much. It's like an expansion of the Munster Senior Hurling League format. The top team in Group C would have to have a play-off shot at Group A or B. If top of Group C are playing a third place team in a quarterfinal playoff, it'll be a bit bizarre to then be playing a 5th placed team in a relegation-promotion playoff.

legendzxix (Kerry) - 11/03/2017 17:03:40    1966187

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Imagine if the Tipp / KK draw was played in the 3rd of the 5 rounds in my '5 v 5, 5 by 5' plan, say after KK's defeat of Galway in the Lein SF (2nd match) as they await say, Wex in the Lein Final (held over to say, the 4th or 5th match, allowing momentum to build while playing attractive inter-prov games in the meantime.

omahant (USA) - 12/03/2017 22:18:42    1966562

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Replying To tonydoranfan:  ""Tony kelly has made a lot of sense.. do you think the munster teams really care bout a munster title, waterford want an all ireland as do tipp and limerick. Cork won munster in 2013 but clare the big price, who is remembered??? 8 to 10 team super championship in three divisions with relegation of maybe two teams. Sex it up with good promotional adds and you would see every kid in wexford and limerick wanting to play hurling!!! Scrap the league and play lenister and munster championship early in year as a strong warm up competition. The old saying quality over quantity and with good planning there would be plenty of time for clubs inbetween.. All finals on same day in croke park with early minor final. What a way to promote hurling!!!! Run football in a similar format maybe""
Tony In 2013 Dublin after 51 years and Limerick after 17 years, won their respective provincial titles each to great acclaim. The scenes in Limerick and at headquarters after the games gave ample testimony to how players and supporters in success starved counties appreciate wins like these.The fact is the proposed changes would benefit the bigger counties like those brought in in the nineties did.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - 13/03/2017 00:17:06    1966585

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Replying To tonydoranfan:  ""Tony kelly has made a lot of sense.. do you think the munster teams really care bout a munster title, waterford want an all ireland as do tipp and limerick. Cork won munster in 2013 but clare the big price, who is remembered??? 8 to 10 team super championship in three divisions with relegation of maybe two teams. Sex it up with good promotional adds and you would see every kid in wexford and limerick wanting to play hurling!!! Scrap the league and play lenister and munster championship early in year as a strong warm up competition. The old saying quality over quantity and with good planning there would be plenty of time for clubs inbetween.. All finals on same day in croke park with early minor final. What a way to promote hurling!!!! Run football in a similar format maybe""
Tony In 2013 Dublin after 51 years and Limerick after 17 years, won their respective provincial titles each to great acclaim. The scenes in Limerick and at headquarters after the games gave ample testimony to how players and supporters in success starved counties appreciate wins like these.The fact is the proposed changes would benefit the bigger counties like those brought in in the nineties did.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - 13/03/2017 00:17:30    1966586

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Prov Draw - Muns SF1 has M1 v M2 and Muns QF has M3 v M4 (winner plays M5 in MSF2). LSF1 has L1 v L2 and LQF has L3 v L4 (L5 bye to LSF2). Hypothetical 5x5 Schedule (assumes Prov SF winners are M1, M3, L1 and L3) - Rd 1 has MSF1; LSF1; MQF; LQF; and M5vL5. Rd 2 has MSF2; LSF2; MQFL (loser) v LQFL; M1vL1; and L2vM2. Rd 3 has M1vL4; L2vL5; L3vM3; M4vL1; and M5vM2. Rd 4 has M1vL5; L2vM3; L3vL1; M4vM2; and M5vL4. Rd 5 has M1vM3; L2vL4 L3vM2; M4vL5; and M5vL1. Imagine the Tipp/KK draw in Rd 3, prior to Lein Final (Rd 4, L3vL1) and Muns Final (Rd 5, M1vM3).

omahant (USA) - 14/03/2017 17:37:33    1967019

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put this in other thread - how about scrapping the league and championship is 2 groups of 6 , No 1 seeds are all ireland finalists no 2 seeds are semi finalists. ! and 2 seeds kept apart - otherwise open Draw with max 3 munster teams in one pool . Group winners go to semis. Group runner ups to to quarter finals along with provincial champions. If provincial champ has already qualified, A 3rd place team gets the spot. Bottom team in each group play off - loser relegated to christy ring, play off winner plays ring cup runner up for promotion/relegation. MAtches played fortnightly with club championship played in between, is it any good?

janesboro (Limerick) - 14/03/2017 23:27:53    1967138

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Replying To janesboro:  "put this in other thread - how about scrapping the league and championship is 2 groups of 6 , No 1 seeds are all ireland finalists no 2 seeds are semi finalists. ! and 2 seeds kept apart - otherwise open Draw with max 3 munster teams in one pool . Group winners go to semis. Group runner ups to to quarter finals along with provincial champions. If provincial champ has already qualified, A 3rd place team gets the spot. Bottom team in each group play off - loser relegated to christy ring, play off winner plays ring cup runner up for promotion/relegation. MAtches played fortnightly with club championship played in between, is it any good?"
It'd be very good. Omahants system would also be very good. Both big improvements on current system. Omahants is more flexible than he states above. There doesn't need to be even numbers in the Leinster and Munster championships to split the teams into 2 sections and it would be possible to have more than 10 teams accommodated. I like how his system will have unique pairings guaranteed right up to and including the semifinals. Relegation could be introduced to keep eliminated teams having to play for something. Either system could be played off in May to August bank holiday. Loads of top quality hurling getting played at the height of the summer.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - 15/03/2017 13:09:33    1967255

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