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Replying To Whammo86: "I don't hate the Provincial championships, I do accept though that the interest levels in them are waning. They pose complications when trying to come up with how best to run a fair national championship. The knockout nature in football isn't great for providing a good season for county players or fixture certainty for club players.
Having a knockout based championship comes at the expense of more games between the best teams.
Having a hurling championship based on set regional groups hurts equality of opportunity amongst teams. Kerry are a victim to this mainly.
I love the Ulster championship but increasingly keeping it as part of the main competition may be at the expense of an overall better system." Accusing people of hating the provincial championships is all they've got at this stage.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 12/07/2020 13:19:25
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Also, the Munster final won't have the same status this year, no matter what. If its played, it'll be played in front of a much reduced crowd, at the least optimal time of year. No matter what, this years championship will be a lesser version of the usual championship. Having an open draw for this one year may have given this championship a uniqueness which may have compensated for the other enforced shortcomings.
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1754 - 11/07/2020 15:03:17 2283771
+1 to all of that. The funny thing is, there were plenty of traditionalists who were dead against the league style provincial championships, yet it turned out to be a roaring success, unless a team gettting as little as 2 championship games a year is your thing. If these traditionalists had their way, we would still have a handful of games in either province. WHY?
The point is, change is something even for 1 year (when the gate receipts are going to be zero so there is no finanical loss) should have been tried out. There is no championship format which can't be reversed if it doesn't work. Just like changes to refereeing, hawk-eye, etc, etc - try to evolve and if it doesn't work, then change it back.
"Munster final is a National Day", cringe.......
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1729 - 12/07/2020 13:37:11
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Also, the Munster final won't have the same status this year, no matter what. If its played, it'll be played in front of a much reduced crowd, at the least optimal time of year. No matter what, this years championship will be a lesser version of the usual championship. Having an open draw for this one year may have given this championship a uniqueness which may have compensated for the other enforced shortcomings.
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1754 - 11/07/2020 15:03:17 2283771
+1 to all of that. The funny thing is, there were plenty of traditionalists who were dead against the league style provincial championships, yet it turned out to be a roaring success, unless a team gettting as little as 2 championship games a year is your thing. If these traditionalists had their way, we would still have a handful of games in either province. WHY?
The point is, change is something even for 1 year (when the gate receipts are going to be zero so there is no finanical loss) should have been tried out. There is no championship format which can't be reversed if it doesn't work. Just like changes to refereeing, hawk-eye, etc, etc - try to evolve and if it doesn't work, then change it back.
"Munster final is a National Day", cringe......." Munster final is the 3rd biggest GAA day after the Football and Hurling All Ireland Finals. Look at the huge crowds for the round Robin in Munster last year and 2018. In comparison to Leinsters very average crowds. Infact Leinster is falling further and further behind. Can't win an All Ireland under 21 for love nor money. Its a huge issue. The problem with the open draw is one Leinster people don't factor. You could have all Leinster teams out of the competition very early on ..excepting Kilkenny. And nobody wants that.
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 12/07/2020 15:27:08
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Replying To bloodyban: "Munster final is the 3rd biggest GAA day after the Football and Hurling All Ireland Finals. Look at the huge crowds for the round Robin in Munster last year and 2018. In comparison to Leinsters very average crowds. Infact Leinster is falling further and further behind. Can't win an All Ireland under 21 for love nor money. Its a huge issue. The problem with the open draw is one Leinster people don't factor. You could have all Leinster teams out of the competition very early on ..excepting Kilkenny. And nobody wants that." is this a wind up?
Wexford in 2 Leinster finals brought over 60k 3 years ago and just under it last year.
last year Leinster championship was incredible and only the most deluded in this world could debate that.
If the munster championship is such a draw why is Cusack and Walsh Park able to hold these matches?
and you really believe that wexford,galway are inferior to the munster teams?based on what?
munster final day is indeed great but what happened these great munster teams when they met kk in their prime?only Tipp and Cork could lay a glove in them for the guts of 10 years
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 12/07/2020 16:58:10
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Replying To perfect10: "is this a wind up?
Wexford in 2 Leinster finals brought over 60k 3 years ago and just under it last year.
last year Leinster championship was incredible and only the most deluded in this world could debate that.
If the munster championship is such a draw why is Cusack and Walsh Park able to hold these matches?
and you really believe that wexford,galway are inferior to the munster teams?based on what?
munster final day is indeed great but what happened these great munster teams when they met kk in their prime?only Tipp and Cork could lay a glove in them for the guts of 10 years" Comparing attendances is unfair as Munster has the bigger population/fanbase and half the teams have little or no chance of an All Ireland or even Leinster win most of the time.
Cusack and Walsh were too small under the old knockout format but its only fair they are allowed in a home and away group stage despite being small. Clare and Waterford are small counties and cant be expected to have big stadia but the other 3 have the biggest stadia in the country outside Dublin
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 12/07/2020 17:42:06
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I just think the Munster Hurling championship is successful because you've 5 really good teams playing one another week in week out.
Hurling would be better if you'd just a league based championship where the top 10-12 teams each play each other once a season.
You'd still have the 10 games between Munster teams but you'd add games like Kilkenny v Tipperary, Galway v Cork each year.
If you have to find some way of having the Munster final in their something could be figured out how to do it.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4195 - 13/07/2020 09:20:57
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Yes, that would be an exciting league-based championship. I suppose you could have the 'highest 2' from each Prov in respective Finals (although not ideal, as a team from the lower half of the table could make it).
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2568 - 13/07/2020 15:57:11
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Replying To perfect10: "is this a wind up?
Wexford in 2 Leinster finals brought over 60k 3 years ago and just under it last year.
last year Leinster championship was incredible and only the most deluded in this world could debate that.
If the munster championship is such a draw why is Cusack and Walsh Park able to hold these matches?
and you really believe that wexford,galway are inferior to the munster teams?based on what?
munster final day is indeed great but what happened these great munster teams when they met kk in their prime?only Tipp and Cork could lay a glove in them for the guts of 10 years" The Munster round Robin 2019 had an attendance of 237,000.
Leinster had 92,500 .
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 13/07/2020 20:52:16
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Replying To bloodyban: "The Munster round Robin 2019 had an attendance of 237,000.
Leinster had 92,500 ." And that would have nothing to do with the reality that one of the counties is tiny with no interest in hurling, in another the game is the poor relation to the big ball and in another 1 team or other has to go 200-350km to a game?
You also did not answer his questions about on what you are basing your ridiculous notion that the only team that would come out of Leinster is Kilkenny? If you make a point, no matter how stupid, at least be able to defend it!
It is probably worth reminding what the title of the thread is at this stage.....complaining about a lopsided structure but not being willing to do anything to change it is a waste of time arguing about it.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1729 - 14/07/2020 08:38:22
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