National Forum

Could A Professional Hurling/Football League Survive In Ireland?

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Replying To Trump2020:  "To some of the naysayers: you're making good points but stop thinking in a GAA format. This would not compete with GAA and in fact would inject some money to the GAA by renting their grounds from them on a fairly consistent basis. Renting GAA grounds would be far cheaper than buying land and developing it.

Someone asked how it would benefit them as a spectator and I say CHOICE is good. You'd have a fitter and more dedicated product on the field.

Recruiting could take place at schools and solve some of the unemployment woes that plague the Government which would give them incentive to help out too."
Ah - right - I have a choice and yet you say this new league is not competing with the GAA ?

Are they not competing for players or are you sayin g that this is an extra level of competition on top of club and county ? If the latter, how do you prevent player burn-out, which is already a concern ?

More basically, do I need a fitter product on the field ? Over the last few weeks, I've watched games going as far back as 1961. Were the players as fit as today ? No. Were the games entertaining ? Yes.

More dedicated ? Jeez - I think amateur players are dedicated. They put a lot of time in for nothing.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 475 - 14/05/2020 16:45:26    2278149

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Good article:

https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2018/01/09/news/club-gaa-following-on-rugby-s-road-to-nowhere-1227556/

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 14/05/2020 16:57:36    2278150

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Replying To Trump2020:  "To some of the naysayers: you're making good points but stop thinking in a GAA format. This would not compete with GAA and in fact would inject some money to the GAA by renting their grounds from them on a fairly consistent basis. Renting GAA grounds would be far cheaper than buying land and developing it.

Someone asked how it would benefit them as a spectator and I say CHOICE is good. You'd have a fitter and more dedicated product on the field.

Recruiting could take place at schools and solve some of the unemployment woes that plague the Government which would give them incentive to help out too."
So, what the proposal is, is for a professional league outside of the GAA? So, the suggestion is the GAA inter-county championships would run as is, and this professional league would be entirely separate from the GAA.

If thats the proposal, then by definition, it's a competitor to the GAA. Players couldn't play both, so the new league would be competing with the GAA for players, and spectators. If that was the case, there's no way the GAA would give that pro league use of its grounds. The revenue from that rent wouldn't be worth it.

And for fitness/dedication, what inter-county players currently give on that front is already way beyond what can be expected from na amateur athlete, its amazing what they do.
BUT, that does raise a legitimate question about professionalism. How long can we expect amateur athletes to maintain that level of dedication/fitness/sacrifice, while the GAA add more games to the calendar each year. There's a discussion to be had about at what point amateurism is unsustainable at that level. But it the solution would have to be GAA centric, and tuned to the unique aspect/culture of the game.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 14/05/2020 17:02:29    2278151

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Replying To Trump2020:  "Fair enough. It would start small but if ran right and marketed right it could flourish. Players getting paid could put more time into their training and tactics and not have conflicting things like jobs getting in the way. Ireland by itself could probably not support it alone so it would have to have a lot of International help and support. Some of the teams could have foreign sponsors such as Coke or Pepsi, etc. Billionaires that currently don't own an NFL or NBA team, etc might be encouraged to buy and sponsor a team. As I said players would not be tied to locations and could play for any team that wants them."
i can see your good self donald trump (who does not own an nfl or nba team,nor never will own an nfl team after his ownership of the new jersey generals in the xfl) clamouring to own a piece of "south-western trumpians"
he'll make billions there.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 14/05/2020 17:09:55    2278152

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It's not economically viable. No chance. Not a hope. Zero likelihood it'll happen in the next 30 years.

We're too small a market.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4223 - 14/05/2020 17:15:31    2278155

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "The issue with the teams not representing counties, is that you'd automatically lose a massive amount of interest. This is essentially what drives the disproportionate interest there is in GAA compared to other sports in the country. It's community based and the teams represent where people are from, not only in name but most importantly in terms of players.
Take this away and you end up with something far less people will have an interest in. The financial viability of a professional competition, which is questionable even with current support levels, then becomes a non-runner."
In the vast majority of sports most DONT play local. I mean the Liverpool team doesn't have all local Liverpool lads nor does any NFL team for example. But you could still have both as in 99% of hurlers or footballers do NOT make the county team for various reasons so you have a huge pool to choose from.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2120 - 14/05/2020 18:11:20    2278162

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Sure where the f*** will Amazon get a billion dollars a year to pay The Dubs?!!!!

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 14/05/2020 18:28:10    2278164

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Replying To Trump2020:  "In the vast majority of sports most DONT play local. I mean the Liverpool team doesn't have all local Liverpool lads nor does any NFL team for example. But you could still have both as in 99% of hurlers or footballers do NOT make the county team for various reasons so you have a huge pool to choose from."
Localism has been an important part of the GAA's philosophy since its foundation. You play for you club and county and that's it. We already have enough problems to fix in the GAA so any talk of a professional league should be binned for the foreseeable future.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 14/05/2020 19:30:30    2278169

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Localism has been an important part of the GAA's philosophy since its foundation. You play for you club and county and that's it. We already have enough problems to fix in the GAA so any talk of a professional league should be binned for the foreseeable future."
You can still have Localism. You can have both. You can have choices. It's just a conversation we're having here.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2120 - 14/05/2020 20:20:06    2278172

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Its possible to have a profesional hurling league but not football ! 8 teams produce all the hurling income as things stand . 10million hurling income and 18 million from football ( 32 squabbling counties )! If you want a profesional league in hurling , go alone in hurling. Its also helpfull the top eight hurling teams have large support bases and 4 team are cities ( better for the commercial side) .

jfk21 (Dublin) - Posts: 51 - 14/05/2020 20:21:08    2278173

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Replying To essmac:  "At best, it'd end up like Rugby - a handful of clubs full of mercenaries and an ignored club scene."
Except that isnt like rugby at all

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 14/05/2020 20:22:46    2278174

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Replying To Whammo86:  "It's not economically viable. No chance. Not a hope. Zero likelihood it'll happen in the next 30 years.

We're too small a market."
Too small a market is true enough but Television and Streaming and Advertising change all that as far as revenue generating is concerned.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2120 - 14/05/2020 20:23:00    2278175

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Replying To Marlon_JD:  "So, what the proposal is, is for a professional league outside of the GAA? So, the suggestion is the GAA inter-county championships would run as is, and this professional league would be entirely separate from the GAA.

If thats the proposal, then by definition, it's a competitor to the GAA. Players couldn't play both, so the new league would be competing with the GAA for players, and spectators. If that was the case, there's no way the GAA would give that pro league use of its grounds. The revenue from that rent wouldn't be worth it.

And for fitness/dedication, what inter-county players currently give on that front is already way beyond what can be expected from na amateur athlete, its amazing what they do.
BUT, that does raise a legitimate question about professionalism. How long can we expect amateur athletes to maintain that level of dedication/fitness/sacrifice, while the GAA add more games to the calendar each year. There's a discussion to be had about at what point amateurism is unsustainable at that level. But it the solution would have to be GAA centric, and tuned to the unique aspect/culture of the game."
You made some great points but you seem too tied to the GAA. What I mean is for example if the GAA would quadruple ticket prices would you be ok with it? And charge triple for parking any near an event? If they're not running it all correctly doesn't it open the door for another entity? I know they're the only show in town now for Gaelic Games but it doesn't have to be.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2120 - 14/05/2020 20:29:43    2278177

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Replying To Trump2020:  "There's been tons of debate on whether the GAA should pay its players or not with plenty of passion on both sides but is it at all possible for a professional Football and/or Hurling League to survive alongside the GAA? Players would get paid, play for a professional team probably owned by a sponsor like SuperMacs or Guinness, etc., not tied to a county or place of birth. Food for thought."
Most likely the vast majority of GAA players who grew up with their club and had any real love for the game would stay with the club and while you would have some that would jump ship I don't think the appetite for it would be there overall. GAA is very deep rooted in most communities in the country.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 14/05/2020 20:38:00    2278179

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Replying To Trump2020:  "You can still have Localism. You can have both. You can have choices. It's just a conversation we're having here."
When will this professional league be played? The GAA won't rent out their stadiums to professional teams during the summer because they'll be using them for their own championship.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 14/05/2020 20:41:59    2278183

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "When will this professional league be played? The GAA won't rent out their stadiums to professional teams during the summer because they'll be using them for their own championship."
Not every weekend. How often does Galway play at Peirce Stadium? Yeah some stadiums get plenty of use like Nowlan Park or Semple Stadium but many don't.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2120 - 14/05/2020 22:16:41    2278188

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Replying To catch22:  "Most likely the vast majority of GAA players who grew up with their club and had any real love for the game would stay with the club and while you would have some that would jump ship I don't think the appetite for it would be there overall. GAA is very deep rooted in most communities in the country."
I can understand that....but imagine not being good enough for the county as there are very few slots why wouldn't a lad go for it? Get paid to train full time....why not?

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2120 - 14/05/2020 22:20:42    2278190

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Replying To Trump2020:  "Not every weekend. How often does Galway play at Peirce Stadium? Yeah some stadiums get plenty of use like Nowlan Park or Semple Stadium but many don't."
Most stadiums wouldn't be suitable for a professional game.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 14/05/2020 23:41:24    2278194

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Replying To Trump2020:  "I can understand that....but imagine not being good enough for the county as there are very few slots why wouldn't a lad go for it? Get paid to train full time....why not?"
Who would want to watch a lad that wasn't good enough for county ? Sure ,there are plenty of good hurlers but, again, most people would just want to watch club and county.Plenty to be getting on with besides watching lads that wouldn't be any better in most cases.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 15/05/2020 06:46:22    2278198

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Replying To Trump2020:  "I can understand that....but imagine not being good enough for the county as there are very few slots why wouldn't a lad go for it? Get paid to train full time....why not?"
Trump, you're usually a sensible poster but I think the lockdown may have got to you!

So you're thinking the players not quite good enough to play for the county would go professional and the people would have interest in watching and paying money to see them as a product, playing for Pepsi Cola or whatever? Think about that for a minute and then come out of the fog!

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1903 - 15/05/2020 09:34:27    2278205

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