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The Amateur Ethos

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Meant to say "original county only". Blame autocorrect and typing on a bus essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 18/02/2020 07:09:08 2268273 Link
Replying To traleegerry: "The gaa is pro in the Dublin senior set up" Yerra Kerry had a few lads pro in the noughties https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportsjoe.ie/amp/gaa/kieran-donaghy-quits-job-to-go-full-time-with-kerry-24414 hamsterdean (Limerick) - Posts: 223 - 18/02/2020 07:14:49 2268274 Link
The difficulty here is the old turkeys voting for Christmas argument. The gaa has turned into a huge revenue generator and it has attracted administrators who get paid stupid money. They need the tills to keep ringing to justify their positions and will do anything to ensure it happens. The arguments on here show the crossroads we're at, some think it's ok for an organisation the size of the gaa to have these administrations others don't. Personally if they administered the whole organisation it might be justified but realistically they are looking after the top 1%. We keep harking back to the amateur ethos, to get back there the sacrifices may be less coverage on tv, less media in general etc. Is it a price we're willing to pay? I think something has to change, you can't have the levels of disparity between the counties, 10 times worse with the club player, throwing a load of wealthy admin on top, that's a recipe for revolution if ever there was, question is what way does it go, back to amateur or further into professionalism and all that will entail. duckula20 (Antrim) - Posts: 175 - 18/02/2020 07:24:34 2268275 Link
Replying To Breezy: "Celtic Warriors was a made up team for the pro era and never really got going despite being from a big rugby area the fans never took to them and stayed with their old amateur clubs. Wakefield is a rugby league stronghold and although they did try they were never gonna make it in pro union. London Irish haven't merged with anyonebut do ground share with Reading FC and are going in with Brentford FC on a new stadium. Professionalism has been on the whole good for rugby union even the for the small clubs but it has brought it's problems and I'm certainly not trying to use that to advocate for pro GAA" Rugby union going professional has been great for the international sides, pro clubs and pro players, but has been a disaster for local clubs and players below pro level. i.e. translated to GAA professionalism would benefit county teams, county players and be a disaster for everyone else. icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2550 - 18/02/2020 07:35:28 2268276 Link
Replying To centerfield: "Your argument is like saying Bruce Springsteen's roadie should get paid but there's not enough money in the gig for Bruce to get paid. Or Katie Taylor's promoter should get paid for a bout but not Katie. I don't just think the players should get paid i think they should demand it and they should see this amateur ethos for the nonsense it is" Ridiculous argument. Katie Taylor being an exception because she brought huge sponsorship with her. Boxers have to pay everyone out of their purse. When they are starting off their is often not enough cash left and they have to fund the shortfall themselves, pay for their own trainer, nutrition, travel etc. Eric Donovan has to sell a certain amount of tickets to break even and he is reasonable successful. https://www.the42.ie/eric-donovan-glasgow-2-4903401-Nov2019/ I am not ethical against players being paid but remember CP is sold out once per year in each code. Rarely are games sell outs. Would professionalism be sustainable Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1825 - 18/02/2020 09:39:57 2268282 Link
I am not ethical against players being paid but remember CP is sold out once per year in each code. Rarely are games sell outs. Would professionalism be sustainable If ticket prices were not as expensive i have no doubt stadium would be full more often. But these over paid guys in croke park that reward themselves with pay rises even when the game is going backwards dont care about the fan or the player just making money. sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1142 - 18/02/2020 10:33:27 2268290 Link
Replying To icehonesty: "Rugby union going professional has been great for the international sides, pro clubs and pro players, but has been a disaster for local clubs and players below pro level. i.e. translated to GAA professionalism would benefit county teams, county players and be a disaster for everyone else." Not true. Professionalism has allowed rugby to generate far more money through Internationals & Provinces which funds the clubs. Over 11 million to clubs in 18/19. Facilities in rugby clubs are far better now than in the pre professional era. Unfortunately for the GAA there is no international dimension that will generate large TV money unlike most other sports bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4624 - 18/02/2020 10:52:22 2268293 Link
Replying To icehonesty: "Rugby union going professional has been great for the international sides, pro clubs and pro players, but has been a disaster for local clubs and players below pro level. i.e. translated to GAA professionalism would benefit county teams, county players and be a disaster for everyone else." It has not at all been disaster for amateur local clubs or players below pro level. Care to expand how it's been so bad for amateur players and local clubs. Sport going pro has seen more and more kids join clubs and start playing the sport. And it cant be directly compared to GAA. KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3494 - 18/02/2020 13:05:13 2268306 Link
Replying To bad.monkey: "Not true. Professionalism has allowed rugby to generate far more money through Internationals & Provinces which funds the clubs. Over 11 million to clubs in 18/19. Facilities in rugby clubs are far better now than in the pre professional era. Unfortunately for the GAA there is no international dimension that will generate large TV money unlike most other sports" Money is great, but if players becomes contracted to the IRFU there club no longer has access those players. That's the real issue at club level The_Fonz (Westmeath) - Posts: 213 - 18/02/2020 14:36:39 2268319 Link
Replying To KillingFields: "It has not at all been disaster for amateur local clubs or players below pro level. Care to expand how it's been so bad for amateur players and local clubs. Sport going pro has seen more and more kids join clubs and start playing the sport. And it cant be directly compared to GAA." How did Clontarf get on in last season's champions cup? cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5009 - 18/02/2020 14:52:25 2268321 Link
With the amount of money being generated by the GAA it's difficult to see the players not wanting a cut of it. Whether we like it or not, the inter county game is edging towards semi-professionalism. I can see this issue coming down the tracks in the not too distant future. Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1873 - 18/02/2020 15:20:51 2268323 Link
Replying To cavanman47: "How did Clontarf get on in last season's champions cup?" There would not be a champions cup without professionalism and had Ireland entered clubs and not provences we would have been ripped apart and neither rugby in Ireland or the champions cup would have been the same without exploits like the early Munster campaigns. Rugby in Ireland couldn't even muster an All Ireland tournament until the 1990s. A few big clubs like Shannon and Garryowen in Limerick have seen attendances down as they no longer have access to international players but most clubs especially in smaller towns have done better under professionalism. But as others pointed out here the GAA has no international audience to fund a pro game and top players playing club would definitely go but the huge worry is no pro game I know of has managed to balance pro contracts and keeping players tied to home teams Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 18/02/2020 15:21:57 2268324 Link
Replying To traleegerry: "The gaa is pro in the Dublin senior set up" Explain that statement, not a shred of evidence arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4894 - 18/02/2020 15:42:00 2268329 Link
Replying To The_Fonz: "Money is great, but if players becomes contracted to the IRFU there club no longer has access those players. That's the real issue at club level" They do in some cases and would gaa going pro have as many games for the pro players as the provinces and Irish team have in rugby. The players would have to be also playing for their clubs in the GAA KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3494 - 18/02/2020 16:15:32 2268333 Link
Replying To Breezy: "There would not be a champions cup without professionalism and had Ireland entered clubs and not provences we would have been ripped apart and neither rugby in Ireland or the champions cup would have been the same without exploits like the early Munster campaigns. Rugby in Ireland couldn't even muster an All Ireland tournament until the 1990s. A few big clubs like Shannon and Garryowen in Limerick have seen attendances down as they no longer have access to international players but most clubs especially in smaller towns have done better under professionalism. But as others pointed out here the GAA has no international audience to fund a pro game and top players playing club would definitely go but the huge worry is no pro game I know of has managed to balance pro contracts and keeping players tied to home teams" Yep Nenagh and many other clubs countrywide have gone strength to strength since provinces have been playing more and more. Rugby just didn't have an all Ireland league until the 90s. They just didnt see need it wasnt due to there not being enough clubs or anything else. The main competitions were provincial cups and then cross provincial friendlies which were very traditional. Sides would play the same sides year in year out. Likes of shannon, garryowen also dont have anywhere near as many players from other clubs as they used to in early 90s as so many clubs are now senior and playing in the AIL whereby in 90s the clubs were junior and players were dual status or just playing AIL. Clubs in this case were any in tipp, gruff etc. Top players in a professional GAA would have to play club hurling/gaelic as there wouldnt be enough inter county games to maintain them for a season. KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3494 - 18/02/2020 16:21:47 2268335 Link
Replying To Mayonman: "Ridiculous argument. Katie Taylor being an exception because she brought huge sponsorship with her. Boxers have to pay everyone out of their purse. When they are starting off their is often not enough cash left and they have to fund the shortfall themselves, pay for their own trainer, nutrition, travel etc. Eric Donovan has to sell a certain amount of tickets to break even and he is reasonable successful. https://www.the42.ie/eric-donovan-glasgow-2-4903401-Nov2019/ I am not ethical against players being paid but remember CP is sold out once per year in each code. Rarely are games sell outs. Would professionalism be sustainable" Full professionalism is obviously not possible given the number of teams. A payment of 8k-10k is probably doable. That's probably in the region of 12-15million per annum if it's across 5o teams. Aussie Rules teams look to have a wage bill of 8M eur each with 18 teams that would be 144M ballpark. Given we have approx a fifth of their population it would be like a wage bill of 25 M here. I would not advocate certain teams/players getting paid more though same payment to everyone who's named in a match day squad centerfield (Mayo) - Posts: 360 - 18/02/2020 19:47:19 2268358 Link
The average croke park exec salary is 125k? Theres a fair few intercounty managers knocking down that i d imagine.. and lots of club trainers costing anything from 10k to 80k. So I wouldn't be overly worried about that. Look at the money delaney etc was getting in the fai and the shambles it is! The more successful counties/players do get "rewarded" for their profile. Cant be denied. Even in our small little county it happens- a job, a car etc. Wouldnt begrudge it to them. So who's driving things? (Not the free cars!!) The paid personal - management etc and the players who demand it! We all would have heard the stories about the savagery of matches and competing for the parish etc back in the 1880s etc. We ve just replaced the savagery on the pitch with money off it - 30 million. And to win what really? So 30 players can lift a piece of silverware. Crazy! But we love it! old yellar (None) - Posts: 2625 - 18/02/2020 21:21:54 2268372 Link
Replying To old yellar: "The average croke park exec salary is 125k? Theres a fair few intercounty managers knocking down that i d imagine.. and lots of club trainers costing anything from 10k to 80k. So I wouldn't be overly worried about that. Look at the money delaney etc was getting in the fai and the shambles it is! The more successful counties/players do get "rewarded" for their profile. Cant be denied. Even in our small little county it happens- a job, a car etc. Wouldnt begrudge it to them. So who's driving things? (Not the free cars!!) The paid personal - management etc and the players who demand it! We all would have heard the stories about the savagery of matches and competing for the parish etc back in the 1880s etc. We ve just replaced the savagery on the pitch with money off it - 30 million. And to win what really? So 30 players can lift a piece of silverware. Crazy! But we love it!" Ya but dare we regulate or stream line it so it is fair for all. We just love the auld nod nod wink wink under the table stuff. You know down in the pub stuff. I know some thing you don't know so make me more powerful and popular. It is bred into us. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2653 - 18/02/2020 22:30:32 2268384 Link
The average croke park exec salary is 125k? Between 40-60 grand too much IMO. sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1142 - 19/02/2020 11:01:39 2268414 Link
Replying To sourmilk93: "The average croke park exec salary is 125k? Between 40-60 grand too much IMO." No it isnt considering they are execs in an organisation with so many members, facilities to manage etc and all to do with running the whole organisation Compare it to any other similar organisation with similar number of members etc elsewhere KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3494 - 19/02/2020 15:04:17 2268452 Link