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The UEFA Nations League, like the GAA NFL, facilitates teams of similar quality to play each other in a structured tournament for the first time.
In parallel, and in contrast, the Euro 2020 Qualifiers, has balanced groups with teams of mixed quality, similar to the Champions League,
Qualification to the Euro 2020 finals is a blended mix of 20 Qualifiers and 16 others who participate in the Playoff SFs based on Narions League results.
Should the GAA use a similar mixed approach for the AIC ? - say top 4 in each NFL div - and the top 2 in each of 8 Champions League groups of 4 - advancing to the AI Last 32 ?
After a combined 10 matches per team (7 + 3), teams are seeded according to their NFL position and get byes to AI Rd of 16 for 'advancing twice'.
Most likely, a team quantity between 16 and 32 will advance to the AI KO - the weakest teams will participate in the Preliminary Rd to complete the AI Rd of 16.
In the Rd of 16 and KO QFs, the highest seed hosts the lowest, the 2nd seed hosts the 2nd lowest etc.
The AI SFs are played at neutral Prov venues; and Final at Croke Park.
Retain the Prov Championships - but these are played independently in early season.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 20/11/2019 01:36:00
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Replying To omahant: "The UEFA Nations League, like the GAA NFL, facilitates teams of similar quality to play each other in a structured tournament for the first time.
In parallel, and in contrast, the Euro 2020 Qualifiers, has balanced groups with teams of mixed quality, similar to the Champions League,
Qualification to the Euro 2020 finals is a blended mix of 20 Qualifiers and 16 others who participate in the Playoff SFs based on Narions League results.
Should the GAA use a similar mixed approach for the AIC ? - say top 4 in each NFL div - and the top 2 in each of 8 Champions League groups of 4 - advancing to the AI Last 32 ?
After a combined 10 matches per team (7 + 3), teams are seeded according to their NFL position and get byes to AI Rd of 16 for 'advancing twice'.
Most likely, a team quantity between 16 and 32 will advance to the AI KO - the weakest teams will participate in the Preliminary Rd to complete the AI Rd of 16.
In the Rd of 16 and KO QFs, the highest seed hosts the lowest, the 2nd seed hosts the 2nd lowest etc.
The AI SFs are played at neutral Prov venues; and Final at Croke Park.
Retain the Prov Championships - but these are played independently in early season." No.
Let's only take good elements of other sports for our own competitions.
OGarmaile (Tyrone) - Posts: 248 - 20/11/2019 09:34:58
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Replying To omahant: "The UEFA Nations League, like the GAA NFL, facilitates teams of similar quality to play each other in a structured tournament for the first time.
In parallel, and in contrast, the Euro 2020 Qualifiers, has balanced groups with teams of mixed quality, similar to the Champions League,
Qualification to the Euro 2020 finals is a blended mix of 20 Qualifiers and 16 others who participate in the Playoff SFs based on Narions League results.
Should the GAA use a similar mixed approach for the AIC ? - say top 4 in each NFL div - and the top 2 in each of 8 Champions League groups of 4 - advancing to the AI Last 32 ?
After a combined 10 matches per team (7 + 3), teams are seeded according to their NFL position and get byes to AI Rd of 16 for 'advancing twice'.
Most likely, a team quantity between 16 and 32 will advance to the AI KO - the weakest teams will participate in the Preliminary Rd to complete the AI Rd of 16.
In the Rd of 16 and KO QFs, the highest seed hosts the lowest, the 2nd seed hosts the 2nd lowest etc.
The AI SFs are played at neutral Prov venues; and Final at Croke Park.
Retain the Prov Championships - but these are played independently in early season." The Euro qualifiers were an awful mess.
I don't think we need a convoluted approach to our championship.
If anything we should be looking to simplify from the current system.
Have the competition more about the matches and less about the structure.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4202 - 20/11/2019 10:29:47
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That nations league format makes my head hurt.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 20/11/2019 10:46:49
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Really looks like a solution desperate for a problem.
The 16 teams qualified from the NFL before the group stages start will have nothing to play for. In fact they might take it as an opportunity to ease off and refresh before aiming to peak in the knockout stages.
Plus its a bit of a silly comparison to the Nation's League. UEFA gave the extra 2 spots to the Lower Leagues, but you've 31 teams fighting for those 2 spots, so they still have to really work to come out on top and actually earn qualification. But this proposal gives 8 spots to the lowest ranked 16 teams, so teams have only to be mediocre in the bottom division and they're through?
And generally I'd not be in favour of any format where anywhere between 16 and 32 teams can be in a given round. Ridiculous uncertainty.
CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1642 - 20/11/2019 14:24:56
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Guys, team quantities advancing from each stream could be adjusted to suit the goal - UEFA has 20 Qualifiers and 16 in the Playoffs.
To use a better UEFA cloning than before - top 4 of each NFL div is guaranteed a 16-team Playoff berth, with 2 KO Rds advancing 4 to the AI Series - the 4 determined after Champions League-style groups advance the initial 12 to the AI KO Rd of 16 (8 group winners and 4 best 2nds).
To follow the UEFA idea, the 4 Playoff teams advancing from each NFL div would be 4 not having made it via the groups already.
Alternatively - simply advance the 16 of 32 with the best 10-match record (7 in NFL, 3 in group play).
Despite your criticism, UEFA is making a lot of progress for its constituents - there will be a Small Fry league D team in a major tournament for the first time in 2020 - that's the type of inclusion GAA NFL Div 4 teams need - Tier 2 could be akin to Leagues C/D, while still playing Champions League-style groups.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 20/11/2019 23:23:54
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Omahant do you need a new thread for every over the top competition format idea you propose? Why not keep them in one single thread and people can see them and compare them within that thread.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3494 - 21/11/2019 15:27:35
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Because it's like bathroom visits - I can't keep it all in for one visit - I produce as needed - and pleased to have intervals between varying levels of production.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 22/11/2019 00:30:23
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You want simplicity - here you go -
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/1121/1094351-lad
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 22/11/2019 05:40:06
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Replying To KillingFields: "Omahant do you need a new thread for every over the top competition format idea you propose? Why not keep them in one single thread and people can see them and compare them within that thread." https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/1121/1094351-ladies-gfa-confirm-shake-up-to-championship-structures/
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 22/11/2019 05:42:44
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Replying To omahant: "You want simplicity - here you go -
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/1121/1094351-lad" That's actually pretty good.
I like competitions where 3 from a group qualify to make winning a group meaningful but otherwise this makes a lot of sense.
In football 2 tiers of 2 groups of 8 with 3 going through from each group and a total of 3 relegated is my preferred football solution.
In hurling 3 tiers of 2 groups of 6 with 3 going through from group and 1 team being relegated would work.
Provincials as stand alone competitions.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4202 - 22/11/2019 09:49:49
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Replying To omahant: "Because it's like bathroom visits - I can't keep it all in for one visit - I produce as needed - and pleased to have intervals between varying levels of production." I think it's fair to say you're the only one who thinks all these ridiculous proposals are "needed".
CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1642 - 22/11/2019 12:08:37
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Replying To omahant: "Because it's like bathroom visits - I can't keep it all in for one visit - I produce as needed - and pleased to have intervals between varying levels of production." But do you need a new thread each time when your proposals are so convoluted and or similar
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3494 - 22/11/2019 13:05:27
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Does everyone post all in one message to comply with your arbitrary rule purity ? Ideas flow like a brainstorming session. When most posters here can't even articulate one idea, they fall back on blowing smoke - what's your next point - you too think that Impeachment process is a hoax ?
All these ideas are 'not needed' - just for discussion - it's impractical to implement more than one idea at a point in time. If I ranked my ideas, some would have to be near the bottom - I also have good ones.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 22/11/2019 13:32:12
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Replying To Whammo86: "That's actually pretty good.
I like competitions where 3 from a group qualify to make winning a group meaningful but otherwise this makes a lot of sense.
In football 2 tiers of 2 groups of 8 with 3 going through from each group and a total of 3 relegated is my preferred football solution.
In hurling 3 tiers of 2 groups of 6 with 3 going through from group and 1 team being relegated would work.
Provincials as stand alone competitions." Of all my ideas, I like the two Conferences of 16, for a single / merged season-long tournament.
- Put half of each NFL div in Conf A (16 teams)
- Other 16 in B
- All teams play 12 of 16, 'AvB Inter-Conf' pairings
- Div 1v4, 2v2 and 3v3 are avoided (handicaps div1)
- Top 8 to respective Conf QFs (all non-repeat)
- Best seed hosts worst, 2nd hosts 2nd worst etc in re-seeded Conf QFs and SFs
- Conf Finals (AI SFs) at neutral Prov venues; AI Final at Croke Park
- Confs reset for following year - Conf Finalists, their Conf QF opponents and those placed 11-14 remain in same Conf, other 8 cross over
- Option - Permit teams placed 9th and below with a 'better record' to replace those placed 8th and above in Other Conf QFs (likely repeat pairings)
Whether one likes this or not, is it understandable/ not convoluted ?
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 22/11/2019 14:29:39
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Replying To omahant: "Does everyone post all in one message to comply with your arbitrary rule purity ? Ideas flow like a brainstorming session. When most posters here can't even articulate one idea, they fall back on blowing smoke - what's your next point - you too think that Impeachment process is a hoax ?
All these ideas are 'not needed' - just for discussion - it's impractical to implement more than one idea at a point in time. If I ranked my ideas, some would have to be near the bottom - I also have good ones." Omahant you have loads of competition proposals. Of all your posts I'd say 80% are about changing format of all Ireland competitions. Why not post them all in the one place instead of putting them across every single thread that may be about changes to format.
I've formatted my ideas plenty of times. I would have provincial competitions as standalone straight knockout cups. League like now but played through year not shoehorned into first couple months of year and then an all Ireland cup as well and that could be tiered with more games for weaker sides if necessary
You do have some good ideas but why not put them all into one thread instead of having them in about 30/40 threads which you have done.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3494 - 22/11/2019 16:33:11
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Replying To omahant: "Of all my ideas, I like the two Conferences of 16, for a single / merged season-long tournament.
- Put half of each NFL div in Conf A (16 teams)
- Other 16 in B
- All teams play 12 of 16, 'AvB Inter-Conf' pairings
- Div 1v4, 2v2 and 3v3 are avoided (handicaps div1)
- Top 8 to respective Conf QFs (all non-repeat)
- Best seed hosts worst, 2nd hosts 2nd worst etc in re-seeded Conf QFs and SFs
- Conf Finals (AI SFs) at neutral Prov venues; AI Final at Croke Park
- Confs reset for following year - Conf Finalists, their Conf QF opponents and those placed 11-14 remain in same Conf, other 8 cross over
- Option - Permit teams placed 9th and below with a 'better record' to replace those placed 8th and above in Other Conf QFs (likely repeat pairings)
Whether one likes this or not, is it understandable/ not convoluted ?" I don't like this one though at all because it gives teams an easier schedule for performing badly.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4202 - 22/11/2019 17:28:02
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Replying To Whammo86: "I don't like this one though at all because it gives teams an easier schedule for performing badly." Yes, not by much though, and it shouldn't lead to tanking, I think -
- Div 2 teams (call them prior year Conf QF losers after year 1) play Divs/Quadrants 1, 3 & 4
- Div 4 teams play 2, 3 & 4 (8 of 12 games are common to 'any two' teams in a Conf)
- Stronger teams should naturally beat weaker ones and still advance to the KO stage with ample incentive to achieve a better seeding)
I handicap for a few reasons -
1) Avoid Div 1v4 mismatches
2) Limit inter-county schedule to aid clubs
3) Replace the draft, or other 'equalisation' measures, used in US sports or Aussie AFL.
Goal in any year should be to get to the KO and ultimately, win the AI - why tank for an easier schedule that leads to nexy year's KO in lieu of this year's KO ? - besides, after qualifying for the KO in any one year, the team will be treated as a Quadrant 1/ Div 1 team (prior year Conf QF winners) or Div/Quad 2 (Conf QF losers) in the following year (allows a 'bit' of ebb and flo).
Analysis - what does cutting 4 games per team do?
Avoiding Div 1v4 should 'cheat' a Div 1 of 4 wins
Avoiding Div 2v2 gives prior Conf QF losers an 'advantage' over Div/Quadrant 3 teams.
There are horses for courses - I like this.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 23/11/2019 01:17:23
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Replying To KillingFields: "Omahant you have loads of competition proposals. Of all your posts I'd say 80% are about changing format of all Ireland competitions. Why not post them all in the one place instead of putting them across every single thread that may be about changes to format.
I've formatted my ideas plenty of times. I would have provincial competitions as standalone straight knockout cups. League like now but played through year not shoehorned into first couple months of year and then an all Ireland cup as well and that could be tiered with more games for weaker sides if necessary
You do have some good ideas but why not put them all into one thread instead of having them in about 30/40 threads which you have done." 80 is on the low side, there, for sure - what else could I possibly talk about ? :)
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 23/11/2019 01:44:05
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Replying To omahant: "80 is on the low side, there, for sure - what else could I possibly talk about ? :)" Why not put then in one thread than spammingnthe entire forum?
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3494 - 23/11/2019 11:13:04
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