National Forum

Club Championships - Teams Play In The Same Championship Level According To Their League Position

(Oldest Posts First)

the Tyrone club championship is based of the teams league position

i.e.
Division 1 - Teams can only play in Senior Championship
Division 2 - Teams can only play in Intermediate Championship
Division 3 - Teams can only play in Junior Championship

Is this the norm in most counties around the country? The reason I ask is that if a club is lucky enough to win the junior or intermediate championship within Tyrone they could end up playing another team that are playing league football on a higher level which would seem disadvantage.
Just interested in what other counties do for their own championships, as I know some other Ulster counties allow individual clubs to choose.

conman1282 (Tyrone) - Posts: 34 - 06/11/2019 17:02:12    2248150

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League and Championship are tied together in Monaghan aswell. You get relegated from the Senior League, and you play Intermediate League and Championship the following year, and so on. An example is Magheracloone who got relegated from Senior last year after a long stint in the top flight, but they bounced back to win the intermediate championship this year and are currently in the Ulster club intermediate semis. Despite relegation I thought they were still above Intermediate level and they've proved that since.

I like this system, I can never understand other counties where a club could be playing different levels at league and championship, but I suppose that's because I'm used to the Monaghan system. Championship is undoubtedly king, but it means that you can't just forget about the league because your league status is tied to your championship. Another example is Clontibret last year, who had a very stuttering first year under John McEntee, and let the league get away from them to the point that they were flirting with relegation towards the end of the year, despite them clearly being better quality than that. But they pulled through, and a year on, they're in the Ulster club semis after beating Cross.

I don't think it's unfair at all, the step up to senior from intermediate(or junior to intermediate)can be tough, but if you're good enough to win your championship, then you're good enough to have a crack in the league above.

patk (Monaghan) - Posts: 812 - 06/11/2019 17:45:12    2248157

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Replying To patk:  "League and Championship are tied together in Monaghan aswell. You get relegated from the Senior League, and you play Intermediate League and Championship the following year, and so on. An example is Magheracloone who got relegated from Senior last year after a long stint in the top flight, but they bounced back to win the intermediate championship this year and are currently in the Ulster club intermediate semis. Despite relegation I thought they were still above Intermediate level and they've proved that since.

I like this system, I can never understand other counties where a club could be playing different levels at league and championship, but I suppose that's because I'm used to the Monaghan system. Championship is undoubtedly king, but it means that you can't just forget about the league because your league status is tied to your championship. Another example is Clontibret last year, who had a very stuttering first year under John McEntee, and let the league get away from them to the point that they were flirting with relegation towards the end of the year, despite them clearly being better quality than that. But they pulled through, and a year on, they're in the Ulster club semis after beating Cross.

I don't think it's unfair at all, the step up to senior from intermediate(or junior to intermediate)can be tough, but if you're good enough to win your championship, then you're good enough to have a crack in the league above."
I'd agree with that.

In Antrim teams I think can choose.

The intermediate champion has to play senior but won't necessarily be division 1 league if they weren't promoted.

Mostly division 1 teams play senior championship but I don't think teams have to.

Outside of Ulster I think league and championship are much more separate.

Meath they're changing the championship and league system but they have the 2 completely separate.

A division 2 team could be senior and a division 1 intermediate.

It was the case that second teams could play up to Intermediate championship.

There was a separate league structure for 2nd teams. B league where an intermediate team would play in B league division 1 at their highest level.

They have changed it now and merged A league division 4 with B league division 1 to create a division 4 and 5 with their being B league below that.

It's a bit of a mad system. So different to what I was used to in Antrim.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2744 - 06/11/2019 18:40:51    2248166

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It's a well know fact that teams are playing a
lower grade specifically to win championships.
Most clubs are honest enough to play their proper
grade and hats off to them but it is becoming
very common now in hurling and football to see
teams dropping down and thinking they can
get to Croke Park for the intermediate or junior finals.
Winning trophies rejuvenates clubs , parishes and towns. But too often now teams from all over the
country are not pushing on at the higher level.
Just got be believe in the players abilities to compete
and push on and never give up because they haven't
won in X amount of years.

hunchback (Antrim) - Posts: 51 - 06/11/2019 18:57:07    2248168

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Replying To conman1282:  "the Tyrone club championship is based of the teams league position

i.e.
Division 1 - Teams can only play in Senior Championship
Division 2 - Teams can only play in Intermediate Championship
Division 3 - Teams can only play in Junior Championship

Is this the norm in most counties around the country? The reason I ask is that if a club is lucky enough to win the junior or intermediate championship within Tyrone they could end up playing another team that are playing league football on a higher level which would seem disadvantage.
Just interested in what other counties do for their own championships, as I know some other Ulster counties allow individual clubs to choose."
Can you be promoted through both the league and championship in Tyrone, and relegated through them both? It used to be like that in many counties, but then clubs refused to play any games without their county players as it could cost them their senior status. For that reason many counties changed the rules so that league and championship was completely seperate, allowing clubs to play league games throughout the summer.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2296 - 06/11/2019 18:59:22    2248169

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Cork is being revamped. We have one club St Nicks who are senior in championship because they won it in the 1960s and they just believe themselves to be senior. There was no relegation from senior championship over the last few years so they managed to stay in there. In the league, they are bottom of all county division 5 league. You can't go lower in the leagues really. There are lower leagues at Junior level but are organised regionally. Next year, we are reforming. Long, long overdue.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3741 - 06/11/2019 20:12:54    2248176

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The Roscommon division 1 league has been won by the team relegated in the championship. So league champions will be playing intermediate next year.

catchturnscore (Longford) - Posts: 111 - 06/11/2019 20:37:41    2248182

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Replying To catchturnscore:  "The Roscommon division 1 league has been won by the team relegated in the championship. So league champions will be playing intermediate next year."
That almost happened a few years ago in Monaghan - if the team that wins the senior championship finishes in the relegation zone, then they still stay up in the senior championship & league - championship supersedes league.

Another aspect regarding intermediate & junior - the teams that are promoted are the championship winners and league winners, so both are rewarded. The two relegated from Senior and intermediate are the bottom 2 of each league (unless they won that championship as I said above).

patk (Monaghan) - Posts: 812 - 06/11/2019 21:07:40    2248184

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Replying To patk:  "That almost happened a few years ago in Monaghan - if the team that wins the senior championship finishes in the relegation zone, then they still stay up in the senior championship & league - championship supersedes league.

Another aspect regarding intermediate & junior - the teams that are promoted are the championship winners and league winners, so both are rewarded. The two relegated from Senior and intermediate are the bottom 2 of each league (unless they won that championship as I said above)."
Of what I know I think that's as good of a system as in the country.

Starred league games are weighted higher in Monaghan too I heard.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2744 - 06/11/2019 21:33:40    2248190

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Leitrim had a linked league and championship till sometime in the 00s I think, then they split them up, so that a Div 1 team could be playing in the intermediate championship and a Div 2 team could be playing in the senior championship.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 532 - 07/11/2019 01:04:50    2248204

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To me it seems unusual to have the 2 competitions linked. In Westmeath you play a lot of league games without your county players, so it wouldn't work here. An example is Killucan, who play division 3 in the league but in the second group of the senior championship. Imo this shows how division 3 isn't their level if they had a full team all the time.

iarmhi_an_mhaith (Westmeath) - Posts: 219 - 07/11/2019 10:39:40    2248234

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Replying To Soma:  "Can you be promoted through both the league and championship in Tyrone, and relegated through them both? It used to be like that in many counties, but then clubs refused to play any games without their county players as it could cost them their senior status. For that reason many counties changed the rules so that league and championship was completely seperate, allowing clubs to play league games throughout the summer."
Yes the team that finishes top of the junior and intermediate leagues will be promoted to the next division up and therefore play in a higher championship the following year

the Championship winners of both lower championships will also be promoted to the higher grade

bottom 2 teams in Div 1 and 2 automatically go down.

There is a playoff then between the teams that finish in the 2nd - 6th in league (excluding championship winner if they are in one of these positions) and the winner of that will play the playoff loser in the grade above. The result of this game determines if a third team is promoted or just 2.

conman1282 (Tyrone) - Posts: 34 - 07/11/2019 12:01:26    2248265

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Replying To iarmhi_an_mhaith:  "To me it seems unusual to have the 2 competitions linked. In Westmeath you play a lot of league games without your county players, so it wouldn't work here. An example is Killucan, who play division 3 in the league but in the second group of the senior championship. Imo this shows how division 3 isn't their level if they had a full team all the time."
I agree, small clubs can't sustain high standards all year, particularly ones with county players, but that shouldn't mean they can't be in the mix with the best come championship when they have everyone. League and championship should be separate competitions and I'd be hard convinced otherwise.

Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 144 - 07/11/2019 12:15:00    2248271

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Replying To conman1282:  "Yes the team that finishes top of the junior and intermediate leagues will be promoted to the next division up and therefore play in a higher championship the following year

the Championship winners of both lower championships will also be promoted to the higher grade

bottom 2 teams in Div 1 and 2 automatically go down.

There is a playoff then between the teams that finish in the 2nd - 6th in league (excluding championship winner if they are in one of these positions) and the winner of that will play the playoff loser in the grade above. The result of this game determines if a third team is promoted or just 2."
I just had a look there, it seems there was no senior club league or championship football played in Tyrone from mid June to mid August. In most counties where league and championship is kept seperate club football games would be played all summer as relegation or promotion in the league is not as big a deal, so they play without county players. Arguments can be made for and against both systems but I don't think either one puts anyone at a disadvantage come the club provincial championships.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2296 - 07/11/2019 12:34:40    2248276

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