National Forum

What The GAA Can Learn From Hockey. Take A Free To Yourself.

(Oldest Posts First)

This weekend the Irish Women's hockey team are in action on the TV. Hockey is amazing the way they evolve the rules and the GAA can learn.

The most important is the self pass for a free. If you are fouled the ref blows the whistle and you take the free to yourself and keep going. No one can tackle you for 5 meters. This would transform Gaelic football and hurling.

It is no coincidence that this rule was applied to the super 11s in Boston in hurling. Dessie O'Farrell used to play hockey and it shows.

Watch the matches and observe.

There is one other rule that should be copied. Watch the matches and you will see no black card type offenses. The reason is that there is a rule that stops it. It is so effective that you don't know it is there because the effectiveness means it never needs to be applied. I will explain after the weekend.

shaneShankill (Dublin) - Posts: 36 - 31/10/2019 23:08:29    2246912

Link

Big fan of how mysteriously that post ends.

A free to yourself is a fine idea. The rugby style of tap and go to acknowledge is too close to a solo, so we'd have to get a different physical signal that the player has chosen to go themselves.

Goitse (Donegal) - Posts: 41 - 01/11/2019 13:17:25    2246982

Link

Replying To Goitse:  "Big fan of how mysteriously that post ends.

A free to yourself is a fine idea. The rugby style of tap and go to acknowledge is too close to a solo, so we'd have to get a different physical signal that the player has chosen to go themselves."
A hand up in the air would do the trick

prideofarigner (Roscommon) - Posts: 31 - 01/11/2019 14:34:03    2247004

Link

Replying To Goitse:  "Big fan of how mysteriously that post ends.

A free to yourself is a fine idea. The rugby style of tap and go to acknowledge is too close to a solo, so we'd have to get a different physical signal that the player has chosen to go themselves."
Real cliffhanger alright. What could this rule be that prevents black card offences? Tune in next week for the next episode of Hockey beats Hurling.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4055 - 01/11/2019 14:38:38    2247005

Link

Oh sweet lord...the d4 brigade now advising us as to how we adapt our rules from hockey and rugby!

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1729 - 01/11/2019 20:13:07    2247079

Link

Replying To mayotyroneman:  "Oh sweet lord...the d4 brigade now advising us as to how we adapt our rules from hockey and rugby!"
I think you will be surprised to know both sports are played beyond the over cliched d4 area!

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 338 - 01/11/2019 20:44:51    2247099

Link

In hockey tHere is no need to indicate you are taking a self pass. The whistle sounds and you just keep going. No one can tackle you for 5 meters.

I watched an under 13 hurling match at the weekend. A young lad was through got fouled, ref raised his arm to indicate advantage, young lad did not see it and continued. But he could not catch it again and his shot from the hurl drifted wide.

Imagine if the whistle went and the player could keep going and had two more catches

Similarly look at Murchan's goal in the all Ireland final. How many steps were there after the foul?

With a self pass simply keep going and reset the steps rule from when the tackler lets go.

shaneShankill (Dublin) - Posts: 36 - 01/11/2019 23:47:17    2247161

Link

Replying To shaneShankill:  "In hockey tHere is no need to indicate you are taking a self pass. The whistle sounds and you just keep going. No one can tackle you for 5 meters.

I watched an under 13 hurling match at the weekend. A young lad was through got fouled, ref raised his arm to indicate advantage, young lad did not see it and continued. But he could not catch it again and his shot from the hurl drifted wide.

Imagine if the whistle went and the player could keep going and had two more catches

Similarly look at Murchan's goal in the all Ireland final. How many steps were there after the foul?

With a self pass simply keep going and reset the steps rule from when the tackler lets go."
I like it. You should submit it to your local club for consideration.

I also think cynical fouls should be automatically moved forward 14 yards. A cynical foul inside the 21 or D should be awarded a penalty.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2762 - 02/11/2019 10:25:41    2247191

Link

Replying To shaneShankill:  "In hockey tHere is no need to indicate you are taking a self pass. The whistle sounds and you just keep going. No one can tackle you for 5 meters.

I watched an under 13 hurling match at the weekend. A young lad was through got fouled, ref raised his arm to indicate advantage, young lad did not see it and continued. But he could not catch it again and his shot from the hurl drifted wide.

Imagine if the whistle went and the player could keep going and had two more catches

Similarly look at Murchan's goal in the all Ireland final. How many steps were there after the foul?

With a self pass simply keep going and reset the steps rule from when the tackler lets go."
Good point, would make sense & add a flow to the game. However it would never be adapted by Congress in the GAA as it is from another sport & they would never allow that. Instead they would adapt it to being a dogs boll%x version of the hockey rule that wouldn't work. Anyone hoping for the current leadership or Congress to improve things simply & with a common sense approach with the games are going to be waiting some time.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 889 - 02/11/2019 11:09:42    2247201

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "I like it. You should submit it to your local club for consideration.

I also think cynical fouls should be automatically moved forward 14 yards. A cynical foul inside the 21 or D should be awarded a penalty."
That is the other hockey rule that should be adopted. A deliberate (cynical) foul inside the 22 meter line is punished by a penalty corner. 40% or so are scored.

So effective is this rule is that you never see it used at elite levels. You would not know it is there.

The simple GAA version is that the punishment for a cynical foul inside the 45 should be a penalty. Imagine good statistics, goals, instead of bad statistics, black cards.

shaneShankill (Dublin) - Posts: 36 - 02/11/2019 12:07:39    2247210

Link

I initially posted this in the Donegal forum by mistake, but I think an adaptation of the Hockey shootout would be a good replacement for the soccer penalty.


There has been an increase in the prominence of the use of penalty shootouts to determine winners when no ties are allowed. Rugby Union style shootouts have also been (less frequently) used. I believe that it would be more beneficial to have a shootout that reflects the skills required for Gaelic Football.

There remain two players - an attacker and a goalkeeper.
The ball is placed on the ground on the 20. The attacker starts on the 20, and the keeper on the goaline.
The attacker carries the ball in towards goal. Normal carrying rules apply.
The attacker can shoot at any stage, and can score a point, or a goal.
The ball is considered dead upon contact with the goalkeeper or goal, or upon crossing the line.

I haven't settled yet on whether there should be a restriction on how far the keeper is allowed to approach, or on time limits. I can see arguments either way and it'd be best learned from trialing.

My main motivation for proposing these changes are that young players practicing this approach are practicing skills that are more transferable to gameplay than the soccer style penalty. It's the sort of fun thing that kids love to practice, and has a wider variety of skills built into it, including the pick up, the solo, and a more natural shot, as well as narrowing the angle for the young keepers.

Goitse (Donegal) - Posts: 41 - 02/11/2019 12:22:10    2247212

Link

Replying To Goitse:  "I initially posted this in the Donegal forum by mistake, but I think an adaptation of the Hockey shootout would be a good replacement for the soccer penalty.


There has been an increase in the prominence of the use of penalty shootouts to determine winners when no ties are allowed. Rugby Union style shootouts have also been (less frequently) used. I believe that it would be more beneficial to have a shootout that reflects the skills required for Gaelic Football.

There remain two players - an attacker and a goalkeeper.
The ball is placed on the ground on the 20. The attacker starts on the 20, and the keeper on the goaline.
The attacker carries the ball in towards goal. Normal carrying rules apply.
The attacker can shoot at any stage, and can score a point, or a goal.
The ball is considered dead upon contact with the goalkeeper or goal, or upon crossing the line.

I haven't settled yet on whether there should be a restriction on how far the keeper is allowed to approach, or on time limits. I can see arguments either way and it'd be best learned from trialing.

My main motivation for proposing these changes are that young players practicing this approach are practicing skills that are more transferable to gameplay than the soccer style penalty. It's the sort of fun thing that kids love to practice, and has a wider variety of skills built into it, including the pick up, the solo, and a more natural shot, as well as narrowing the angle for the young keepers."
For ties I think there should just be a next point wins game. Both teams lose 4 players to make it more open and reduce the time taken to score.

It can't be done in soccer because of the lack of frequency of scores a game could go on for ages. It's fine for the Gaelic Games though.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2762 - 02/11/2019 13:50:27    2247224

Link

Ahaha, I like that more than my own suggestion tbh!

Goitse (Donegal) - Posts: 41 - 02/11/2019 14:44:45    2247232

Link

Replying To Goitse:  "Ahaha, I like that more than my own suggestion tbh!"
Rather than first score wins. You could have it lady team to lead wins if there is a draw in extra time. That way, unless extra time is nil nil, you get a winner.

shaneShankill (Dublin) - Posts: 36 - 02/11/2019 20:35:44    2247290

Link