(Oldest Posts First)
If the Tier 2 Championship is approved at Congress, should the Division 3 finalists of April 2019 qualify for the qualifiers or the Division 3 finalists of April 2020? If the Tier 2 Championship is approved, counties will have to vote on this. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7824 - 05/10/2019 13:10:51 2241482 Link 1 |
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/1004/1081156-tier-2-proposal-a-case-of-much-done-more-to-do/ Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 05/10/2019 14:34:56 2241486 Link 9 |
Whatever system they pick someone will complain. If they use the 2019 teams then whoever gets promoted up to Div 2 next year will say 'we're now a Div 2 side so should be in the qualifiers'. If they use the 2020 teams then whoever gets relegated to Div 3 next year will say 'we were a Div 2 side all year so should be in the qualifiers'. It's a mad system anyway, the Tommy Murphy Cup version 2.0 - teams won't be interested I reckon. M Lyster (Antrim) - Posts: 461 - 05/10/2019 19:49:10 2241524 Link 0 |
Motion 2 for the special congress gives two options: OPTION 1. "Tier 1 - The composition of the respective Divisions of the National League referred to in (a), (b) and (c) above shall be on the basis of the composition of these Divisions of the National League as played in the Competition Year." "Tier 2 - The composition of the respective Divisions of the National League referred to above shall be on the basis of the composition of these Divisions of the National League as played in the Competition Year. OPTION 2 . "Tier 1 - The composition of the respective Divisions of the National League referred to in (a), (b) and (c) above shall be on the basis of the composition of these Divisions as determined for the National League of the following year on the basis of the outcomes of the National League, including those of Promotion and Relegation, of the Competition Year." "Tier - 2 The composition of the respective Divisions of the National League referred to above shall be on the basis of the composition of these Divisions as determined for the National League of the following year on the basis of the outcomes of the National League, including those of Promotion and Relegation, of the Competition Year." My preference would be Option 2 i.e. the tiers for the championship of 2020 would be determined by the 2021 league divisions. Otherwise, with Option 1, there could be a scenario in which a team, say Cork, wins promotion from Division 3 in 2020 but can't participate in Tier 1 that year (assuming they don't get to the Munster final) and so have to take part in the Tier 2 championship, with no incentive to win it as they're guaranteed a place in Tier 1 anyway in 2021 via the league. CeachtPeile (Cavan) - Posts: 96 - 05/10/2019 23:08:07 2241547 Link 0 |
There are two oddities about the structure proposed. CeachtPeile (Cavan) - Posts: 96 - 05/10/2019 23:33:22 2241550 Link 0 |
My head hurts reading these proposals :-) For what it's worth 16 teams is too many for a secondary competition. If they insist on this proposal then Div 2 teams should remain in the higher competitions for the duration of that year regardless if they're relegated or not. sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 07/10/2019 12:10:22 2241772 Link 0 |
I agree the GAA's proposals are convoluted. I disagree that their should be less than 16 teams in the 2nd tier. The most natural split for a 2 tier competition is to split down the middle. Once you start decreasing the number of teams I think the impression becomes that it's a losers competition. It's a case of teams are being excluded from the top championship rather than their just being 2 divisions in the competition. A simple and strong structure would be 2 championships of 16 teams. 4 groups of 4 in each tier. Top 2 in each to the quarterfinals. Group winners get a home quarter final. Relegation and promotion is determined by the championship and not the league. 2 or maybe even 3 up and down between the tiers. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 07/10/2019 12:47:48 2241791 Link 8 |
I can see the logic in your argument and the reasons for splitting it down the middle. Unless the GAA lean and get international delegates onside (which is possible) I can't see how they'd get a two thirds majority for a 16 team secondary competition. Without suggesting counties are arrogant what would motivate a county like Down with 5 All Ireland's and a rich history to vote for a system that in all likihood condemns them to a secondary competition?! The problem for Down is they wouldn't have the comfort of the Munster Championship to save them. The 16 team competition may have it's merit however it leaves too many traditional, successful and well supported counties who are trying to progress at significant risk. If they fall to the bottom 12 in the country then they can have no arguments but 16 teams is too many. A competition that genuinely gives weaker counties a chance to progress may have it's merits but it shouldn't be dragging counties who are around the competitive 9th to 18th bracket with them. The counties in that bracket are doing good work and there is usually only a few points between them in games but there is a risk of them falling to Div 3 due to the competitive nature. They are also well ahead in terms of structures and preparation of the bottom 12 but if they're made play Div 4 standard games these counties could genuinely suffer and GAA locally could be affected. Counties in Div 4 need help I agree but not by undoing genuine efforts of other counties. sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 07/10/2019 13:49:38 2241827 Link 0 |
Those are all fair points. What I'd say though is there's a lot of effort still going into the game in the lowest 12 ranked teams. Carlow, Leitrim aren't messing around how they treat their football, they just have limited playing resources and you wouldn't want to cut them off. I also worry about the motivations behind the timing of the lower tiers in each code. The GAA actively want them finished early. Is that because some county boards want to get their club commitments finished in their weaker code quickly without impacting upon the competitions in their more popular code. Will those change lead to effectively single code counties. In my opinion that trend is something that is completely at odds with the GAA's mission to promote Gaelic games. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 08/10/2019 18:34:03 2242137 Link 9 |
I think 16 is too many for Tier 2. Division 4 teams would see 8 as too few. I would be in favour of a compromise of 12. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7824 - 10/10/2019 11:20:06 2242529 Link 0 |