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There was a stat today that the last Dublin player to attempt a shot from open play outside the 45 was diarmuid connolly back in 2016. His attempt last Sunday was right on the line. Players are being coached not to attempt a long range shot. Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 04/09/2019 15:26:13 2232777 Link 12 |
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Not the percentage shot I suppose.Wrong call by Connolly last Sunday.He missed and Kerry had the ball back.Gavin would have wanted Connolly to have retained possession and to have worked the ball in closer to goal.
endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2155 - 04/09/2019 15:53:38 2232788 Link 0 |
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2 points for a score from play outside the 45 ;) Idea would be good but trying to ref it!
BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 04/09/2019 16:04:13 2232792 Link 0 |
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It's a percentages game now. Looking back at older matches, there were very few very long shots scored either. There were more taken, but most were missed. Obviously there's a much greater chance of a longer shot missing the target, but also dropping short to the keeper, which is even worse. Leaving aside management, as a supporter I'd be annoyed if a player regularly took on low percentage shots and brought a wasteful end to our attacks. A point from inside the 45 is worth the same as one from outside, so until this changes, I'd prefer my team to work a more realistic shot. WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2037 - 04/09/2019 16:05:48 2232794 Link 1 |
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Hey Jacko you obviously weren't watching the Dublin v Kerry game very closely last Sunday, some teriffic high fielding by both teams notably Brian Howard and David Moran!
DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 932 - 04/09/2019 16:33:27 2232800 Link 2 |
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Brian Howard is just an incredible high fielder.He's not that tall either.Less than 6 foot I think.David Moran has been around since being on the Kerry minor team of 2006 beaten by Roscommon in the All -Ireland Final replay.He's great at plucking the ball out of the sky.He's having a great season at 31 years of age.
endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2155 - 04/09/2019 16:50:24 2232804 Link 1 |
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2 points from outside the 45? Why would anyone go for a goal. Unless it was worth say 6 points.
shaneShankill (Dublin) - Posts: 42 - 04/09/2019 22:21:02 2232893 Link 0 |
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I said decline of high fielding not death. With the short kick outs there's way less high fielding. Maybe 2 points for a score outside the 45! Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 04/09/2019 22:30:10 2232896 Link 10 |
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Interesting statistic if true. I thought Kerry were playing on adrenaline in the first half last Sunday and trying a lot of long range, low percentage shots, when it might have been smarter to work the ball into a more scorable position, like Dublin usually do (although even they started kicking long range wides in the second half which I'm sure Jim Gavin was hopping mad at). ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 04/09/2019 23:51:59 2232907 Link 1 |
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This is the key problem with the football. There is a (totally understandable as the rules stand) obsession in football with the "scoring zone" where the percentage chance of scoring is highest. The defense knows this so crowd that zone. This causes blanket defenses, the incessant handpasses around the 50 meter line, boredom for fans! If you look at basketball, there is a direct equivalent called the "paint". Which is the painted zone on the court near the basket somewhat equivalent to the "scoring zone" in football where shots have a much higher percentage of success. The killer of just defending the "paint" in basketball (blanket defense in football) is good outside shooters who can score from long range. Even though these shots have less chance of success the shots are worth taking because they are worth 3 instead of 2 inside a certain zone. In football if you made a rule that a score outside the 45 is worth 2 it would make a HUGE difference. Defenses would become more stretched because they have to cover too much area and gaps open for goals. Very simple change that few are talking about. pauk123 (USA) - Posts: 189 - 05/09/2019 00:33:40 2232911 Link 1 |
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When did players shoot from behind the '45? I can't think of too many back in the day who tried this? Connolly is one off the top of my head who does it a lot after that I'm struggling to think of players who shoot behind the 45 consistently. I don't think players 20 or 30 years ago would even try for a score that far out but maybe I'm completely wrong. clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 05/09/2019 07:35:11 2232919 Link 8 |
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So its now an issue that Dublin don't attempt long range points! Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 05/09/2019 08:22:37 2232921 Link 0 |
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Saw John Quane score a point from his own 40 one night ....... think it was some time between 1995-1996. Hit it up field, wind behind him and bounced before going over the bar. You don't see that much these days. ........ slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 05/09/2019 10:01:49 2232944 Link 0 |
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Actually Colm McFadden loved a long range point he was brilliant at it. clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 05/09/2019 10:33:44 2232956 Link 11 |
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Which was more prevalent I wonder, the long range point or the long range wide! baire (Galway) - Posts: 1785 - 05/09/2019 10:34:16 2232957 Link 1 |
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I like your way of thinking. If goals really did dry up then 4 points for a goal would work too. But as you said there would be more gaps so probably more goals. Clondalkin, from Meath you had players like nigel Crawford, Mark ward, Joe Sheridan, Chris O'connor and Kevin reilly. Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 05/09/2019 14:39:19 2233051 Link 10 |
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Place a parabola in each half, much like the one used in badketball. Give a player two points for scoring a point from outside it. If dirty play makes a mockery of It, introduce a rule whereby fouls on the kicking player are punished with a 45 from square in front of goal. Then again, where would the modern game be without the horsing, gouging and tomfoolery??? plike (Kerry) - Posts: 569 - 05/09/2019 14:51:17 2233055 Link 0 |
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I think you are looking at it in a quite negative way to be honest. The game has moved with the times becoming a much smarter game and when people start seeing trends in the game that differ from years gone by it's usually highlighted as a negative. The game has evolved a lot in the last 10 years and even though we had to endure some years where most teams adopted ultra defensive systems we have now progressed to a better version of the game than has ever existed before. We just need a few teams to join Kerry in challenging Dublin for top honours and I don't think the likes of Mayo, Cork, Galway, Tyrone, Donegal and maybe a few others (Meath included) are far from that level Dublin have adopted a system where they work the ball to the best scoring position possible and as a result their conversion rate is higher than anyone else and is usually 70% plus. You've titled this thread as the death of the long range point but I see it more as the death of brain dead shooting on sight tactics. The average scores in games are now higher than they have ever been and not all teams have the skill set available to apply Dublin method of attack and have their own way of doing things. I know my own county have excellent long range point takers who have kicked some wonderful scores during the year (The 1-20 a piece draw with Kerry being the best example) but this tactic backfired when they lost to Mayo in Castlebar when they had an off night with their shooting and I'm sure it's something they'll look at in the off season to ensure they have a back up plan in place for 2020. Teams have now struck a perfect balance between defense and attack and teams who want to challenge Dublin know that it will take at least 20 points to have a chance of beating them. This means that they have to make their attacks count and can't be taking on a high number of low percentage shots as you will only have a certain amount of attacks in a game. I don't see the number of long range attempts from outside the 45 dropping as a negative at all because it has led to a more of an all round team game with players being coached to take the right option and for some teams like Donegal that still involves plenty of long range efforts at the right time. As for kicouts, surely the skill level of the top keepers has made the kickout aspect of the game one of the most intriguing parts of the game to watch? Teams putting full court presses on and trying to force the turnover is great to watch and the top keepers nearly always manage to find a way of kicking it to the right area. I also think it's myth that there is no high fielding anymore. I've seen plenty of high catches in games I've attended this year. Just because keepers don't give their own team as many 50/50 balls anymore people think high fielding has gone but this is simply not true. Skill levels are as high now as they ever have been if not higher but because the decision making of players have improved then some people think the game has declined. I honestly think if we can get the championship structure right (not sure about the super 8's) we could be in for a real golden era of GAA football in the next 4 or 5 years. Not all change is bad!! Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 459 - 05/09/2019 16:30:44 2233091 Link 1 |
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Yeah I'm struggling to think of players from the 80s who scored consistently from outside the 45. Jack O'Se had a shot on him, the Blue Panther also had a belt. In the 90s Jack Sheedy was known for the odd long distance effort for Dublin. Whelo also. Maurice for Kerry, Larry Tompkins comes to mind also. Not that many stand out in my memory.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 05/09/2019 17:36:25 2233110 Link 10 |
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Colin Corkery is the player I remember most for long range scores. He kicked some monsters for both club and county.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2037 - 05/09/2019 23:26:49 2233184 Link 0 |