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Dublin Vs Kerry Replay

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I think we may well have been at different games. I thought i was being uncontroversial calling it a double sweeper, you can use any semantics, blanket defense, double/triple sweeper, getting everyone back behind the ball, its the same outcome in a lot of phases of play there was line between your half back and full back line. Its the old Donnie Buckley rotation protecting the D we saw bring joy to Mayo over the years against us.

Its fine its not a criticism Kerry can set up any way they want to achieve what the manager things is the best outcome in any phase and why wouldn't they Dublin are the most dangerous team in the country for scoring. It was notable in a few phases after half time, when the advantage and numerical advantage needed to be pressed and in the last phase of the game.

What was notable was that we haven't come up against the blancket a lot this year and we looked rusty at it, obviously being a man down didnt help. Hopefully we improve the next day.

I dont agree that Dublin defensive system and Kerry are the same, we are a bit more risky overall, yes we get men back, but Dublin will always cough up chances, because we take risks at the back in our offensive play and if you play at the back you also have to have an offensive role. To give an example our defenders were our best scoring line in the game on Sunday.

We also rarely do back to the wall defending like Kerry in the last 10 mins, we do percentage defending, for example Kerry will think they missed a lot of frees in the first half, they didnt, Dublin force teams in to taking low success percentage shots, trust me that accounts for Kerry wides up until the sending off, look at how many wides teams hit against Dublin. There is always a risk of getting in behind mind as we can be open, Killian goal is an example. Of course our defensive structure was shot to pieces after Jonny went.

Which bring me to TW, yes Dublin will always cough up scores, because we take risks. TW came on and had a good impact as a forward, he got a point and was a unit in there, taht fine we always accept the risk. One thing though, Davey Byrne was very unluky to drop the ball, lets be honest. TW did well to pick it up and pass it, but it was an error rather then a brilliant bit of play.

When TW came on within about 2 mins you saw Brian Howard dance through Kerry lines and begin to have a huge impact on the game, TW is getting close to marking him. So on comes Murchan, one of the speediest players in the Dublin team and immediately gets involved in cutting down offensively the Kerry central channel. TW and his lack of mobility, gave Dublin the freedom for their half backs to flood up the filed resulting in Kerry being under the kosh for the last 10 mins.

There are of course pros and cons to TW hes a threat, but also unleashes and frees up Dublin line as they know we can recover. I think Cluxton finished up marking him, a risk certainly bit that our defense we take risks, but gives you a sense of what our plan was TW, he might impact but we back ourselves to impact more with what he frees up.

Like you say though its a fascinating battle, with 15 Vs 15. Watching it back, we were doing very, very well up to the sending off. I think it might have been our biggest half time lead in a final this era, but i could be corrected on that.

I agree by the way, Kerry let us out of jail big time, could you image what would be written about Mayo or even Tyrone if the didn't turn us over with 14 men for 42 mins."
Dubs up by 7 at half time against tyrone last year

Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 316 - 05/09/2019 08:46:09    2232928

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The GOAT? Top banter there.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6503 - 05/09/2019 09:11:37    2232935

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Dublin are a great team and if they win the Replay then fair play to them. Cluxton and McCaffrey are 2 players will go down as greats, the rest of the team ain't bad either. It will be very intresting to see if Jim Gavin reinstates any of the panel who didnt make the 26 and whether or not he sticks with Cooper on Clifford. Also will Keane go with Tommy Walsh and who he will match up with McCaffery. The only thing I dont want to see is Jason Sherlock running onto the field to put off the Kerry goalkeepers kick outs. We also let our side down squirting the water, it did nothing to influence the game and was wrong also. But looking forward to a tough hard game. If Dublin win, they will go down in history as the greatest ever and Kerry people dont care about that as much as we care about this new young Kerry team that is coming through!

KerrymanStuckInDonegal (Kerry) - Posts: 48 - 05/09/2019 09:33:02    2232937

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Replying To Liamwalkinstown:  "Disagree that it was a mistake to bring DC back. Correct decision. The problem I have, is leaving it too late to bring him on!
I don't blame him for taking that shot on, another inch to the left and he reaffirms his GOAT status. I also would have liked him to have had a pop at the last free. Made for him.
If Kerry had won that game by a point, and we had NOT gone back for him, the world and its mother would say we were wrong!

Now, I am not blind to our faults either
Dropping Brogan was a big error in my mind
Bringing Paddy Small on at that stage of that game another. Kev Mc, Connolly or Bernard would have been ideal in that situation
Not switching Johnny also a mistake

That said, I am reeling off more mistakes than ever with Jim's decisions
Add to that we lost a man, add to that Fenton and Con were out of sorts
McCarthy and Mannion also
Put all that in the pot, 14 men for 35 mins....
We STILL weren't beaten....

i am not gonna play the yerra yerra here either. I am uber confident we will win the replay
Uber confident.
COYBIB"
Liam.
I too thought Diarmuid Connolly should have been introduced earlier last Sunday. A talented forward, he could have given another scoring option to Dublin.
I was sorry Bernard Brogan did not make the match day 26.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1146 - 05/09/2019 10:28:12    2232955

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Big difference between what most GAA fans would call a blanket defence and what Kerry did the last day though would you not agree? Not trying to be pedantic but your post had more than a hint of smugness about it.

Dublin were motoring nicely before the sending off but Kerry had left 2-3 or 2-4 on the table at that stage with some very disappointing misses. They weren't low percentage misses either as you are suggesting, a penalty, a shot from inside the area cleared off the line and several point attempts from in and around the D that were going over in previous games. The scoreboard didn't tell the full story of the half and who knows what happens if the sending off didn't occur. Most people would assume Dublin continues their purple patch and closes out a comprehensive victory but we don't know for sure.

As for Byrne dropping the ball, many scores have an element of luck or a mistake in them. It's not like he dropped it in the square, Spillane had quite a bit to do when he picked that ball up.

TW was left free at times towards the end when Dublin had no choice but to go for broke because they were about to be beaten but I'm not buying that that it is a routine or systematic thing. If they were 2-3 points up there is simply no way that happens because it's just too risky. They went for it and fair play it worked, their experience and know how was huge in those closing stages, as was their incredible conditioning. And yes it was backs to the wall for Kerry in added time.

It should be noted that Kerry took huge risks too, particularly on Dublin restarts and got caught for 1-2 from it in the first half."
I think you are being a wee bit precious to be honest Gerry no offense. I wouldn't actually, there were phases of the game Kerry played the blanket, i wouldn't say they went full Fermanagh for 80 mins, but definitely in some phases they had another line between their defensive line. Why wouldn't they as i said, their defense was a key concerned up against the greatest attacking force in the country. we've seen Donnie do it before and it was the old rotation to protect the D. It worked quite well and sucked up space and forced Dublin to take high risk shots, i think Sunday was our lowest score this year so you have to say fair play.

Look we are both picking the bones out the game, probably from our own perspective and interests heading into the next day. Id disagree with you on defending i think we forced you take pot shots from out the field, Kerry were concerned with committing to many men forward into the D with a flood for fear of the breakdown and counter. Ive been watching Dublin a long time and this is what this team do, draw the opposing forward to the point, put on the snare and try and coax them to commit bodies forwards for a break down, quick restart or if not take on a low percentage shot. Doesnt always work and we will always cough up chances.

I dont begrudge Kerry the goal and ive already gievn Killian credit for how he took it, it was an awful phase of play by three of our players in my opinion. My point was, it was a fortuitous piece of possession and creation as opposed to will ful play in the context of TW impact.

I do feel we had a plan for TW, perhaps not executed precisely given sending off, but i think it was purposeful strategy that when he came on our half backs would attack, if you watch the game back and look at how Howard and Murch played with TW on the feild, they were key to hemming Kerry in and gave us the ability to flood. we took a risk certainly, we will do that, even riskier letting Cluxton mark him, but thats what we do, if we are caught we will accept that as it how we do things. But i do think there are pro and cons for Kerry next day.

I will say this, i am confident and i apologise if that comes across as smugness, that is not my intention. I think Kerry really let us out of jail, no other county has had the luck and alogrithim to have a chance to beat us like that in a final.

Ill put it this way if Mayo had an extra man for 42 mins in a final against us, missed a peno and couldn't close out a lead with minutes remaining on the clock, and not score for roughly the last 10, you can imagine how they be described.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 2805 - 05/09/2019 10:54:50    2232967

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Replying To Gavvygavgav:  "Dubs up by 7 at half time against tyrone last year"
Consider me corrected! ;)

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 2805 - 05/09/2019 10:55:19    2232968

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Big difference between what most GAA fans would call a blanket defence and what Kerry did the last day though would you not agree? Not trying to be pedantic but your post had more than a hint of smugness about it.

Dublin were motoring nicely before the sending off but Kerry had left 2-3 or 2-4 on the table at that stage with some very disappointing misses. They weren't low percentage misses either as you are suggesting, a penalty, a shot from inside the area cleared off the line and several point attempts from in and around the D that were going over in previous games. The scoreboard didn't tell the full story of the half and who knows what happens if the sending off didn't occur. Most people would assume Dublin continues their purple patch and closes out a comprehensive victory but we don't know for sure.

As for Byrne dropping the ball, many scores have an element of luck or a mistake in them. It's not like he dropped it in the square, Spillane had quite a bit to do when he picked that ball up.

TW was left free at times towards the end when Dublin had no choice but to go for broke because they were about to be beaten but I'm not buying that that it is a routine or systematic thing. If they were 2-3 points up there is simply no way that happens because it's just too risky. They went for it and fair play it worked, their experience and know how was huge in those closing stages, as was their incredible conditioning. And yes it was backs to the wall for Kerry in added time.

It should be noted that Kerry took huge risks too, particularly on Dublin restarts and got caught for 1-2 from it in the first half."
Does anyone remember back to the Second Gulf War when the Iraqi Government constantly paraded out this Government spokesman who tried to convince the world the coalition forces were doomed and all this was an elaborate trap being sprung.
He was still in front of the cameras claiming the Iraq army would annihilate their enemy as American tanks were rolling up through the streets of Baghdad.
Your man reminds me of the Dublin GAA version of that, in fairness he's obviously a student of propaganda.

And you hit the nail on the head Gerry, the amount of smugness and insincerity that flows from most of his posts is hard to swallow.
I find it best to simply scroll past them rapidly :)

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 4994 - 05/09/2019 11:56:49    2232983

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@ Username no offence taken my point was that the Dubs run a variation of the same system when they don't have the ball. As soon as they lost the ball the midfield and half forwards dropped back. Virtually all teams do this. Howard and Scully spend more time in defence than they do in attack. The aim is to clog up the space around the D and force low percentage attempts, you said so yourself. You cannot do that without bodies back there. You can call it percentage defence or whatever you want but that doesn't change the fact that in essence it's a version of what Kerry were doing. You are taking a couple of minutes at the end where Kerry were trying to cling to a lead and using it to have a veiled dig at Kerry's tactics throughout the game.

McCarthy was marking Tommy for most of the closing stages from what I could make out until they had to throw the kitchen sink at it and take a chance. They had to chase the game so of course the half backs pushed on.

I'd have to look back on the wides in the first half but at the very least two from Clifford were certainly very doable and the goal chances were as clear cut as you'll get so I'm not sure what there is to disagree with.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1568 - 05/09/2019 12:06:17    2232987

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Does anyone remember back to the Second Gulf War when the Iraqi Government constantly paraded out this Government spokesman who tried to convince the world the coalition forces were doomed and all this was an elaborate trap being sprung.
He was still in front of the cameras claiming the Iraq army would annihilate their enemy as American tanks were rolling up through the streets of Baghdad.
Your man reminds me of the Dublin GAA version of that, in fairness he's obviously a student of propaganda.

And you hit the nail on the head Gerry, the amount of smugness and insincerity that flows from most of his posts is hard to swallow.
I find it best to simply scroll past them rapidly :)"
If anyone is the " comical Ali " of this site I would suggest it's you.
You seem to row in with the "poor us " and always the victim approach at the drop of a hat.

It's typical " our glorious leader will repel the infidels " waffle.
We all know where that got you. Oh mustn't forget the ;-).

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2070 - 05/09/2019 12:12:39    2232991

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Replying To Dubh_linn:  "If anyone is the " comical Ali " of this site I would suggest it's you.
You seem to row in with the "poor us " and always the victim approach at the drop of a hat.

It's typical " our glorious leader will repel the infidels " waffle.
We all know where that got you. Oh mustn't forget the ;-)."
Yerra lad at this stage don't you know I don't give a hoot about what you think of me, you seem to be convinced of the reverse though :D

Hope you enjoyed the game last Sunday, I'm hoping down in Kerry we will enjoy the replay more!

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 4994 - 05/09/2019 12:17:11    2232994

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Yerra lad at this stage don't you know I don't give a hoot about what you think of me, you seem to be convinced of the reverse though :D

Hope you enjoyed the game last Sunday, I'm hoping down in Kerry we will enjoy the replay more!"
Ah dear ,that's very disappointing now , you not caring and all. Funnily enough I won't be losing any sleep over that ;-).

I certainly did enjoy the game. I'd be hopeful we can put in a good shift the next day.

Resistance is futile.
Up the Dubs !

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2070 - 05/09/2019 12:33:26    2233001

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Replying To Dubh_linn:  "Ah dear ,that's very disappointing now , you not caring and all. Funnily enough I won't be losing any sleep over that ;-).

I certainly did enjoy the game. I'd be hopeful we can put in a good shift the next day.

Resistance is futile.
Up the Dubs !"
There's a touch of the Borg about Dublin alright I often thought, ruthless, cynical, unemotional, determined to eradicate all life on a football field.
But sure PK is our very own Captain Picard, must watch First Contact again now before the replay ;D

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 4994 - 05/09/2019 12:43:57    2233003

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Does anyone remember back to the Second Gulf War when the Iraqi Government constantly paraded out this Government spokesman who tried to convince the world the coalition forces were doomed and all this was an elaborate trap being sprung.
He was still in front of the cameras claiming the Iraq army would annihilate their enemy as American tanks were rolling up through the streets of Baghdad.
Your man reminds me of the Dublin GAA version of that, in fairness he's obviously a student of propaganda.

And you hit the nail on the head Gerry, the amount of smugness and insincerity that flows from most of his posts is hard to swallow.
I find it best to simply scroll past them rapidly :)"
Ah he is not the worst Hermit. We have had many a good debate on here. It's more fun when we disagree

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1568 - 05/09/2019 12:51:57    2233009

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Replying To TheHermit:  "There's a touch of the Borg about Dublin alright I often thought, ruthless, cynical, unemotional, determined to eradicate all life on a football field.
But sure PK is our very own Captain Picard, must watch First Contact again now before the replay ;D"
Yeah, thought you'd like that alright . Right up your street .
You boys must be the Munster version so. Laying waste to the provinces young hopefuls for years.
You will be assimilated . Resistance is futile .

Captain Picard wouldn't know a lot about lucky bags though. D

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2070 - 05/09/2019 13:01:23    2233016

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Ah he is not the worst Hermit. We have had many a good debate on here. It's more fun when we disagree"
Yerra sure if you enjoy debating with him fire ahead, your perfectly entitled to Gerry.

I just don't have much time for him now, but that's just a personal taste.

At least with some of the other Dublin posters they make no bones about what angle they are coming from. It's the insincerity of this particular guy and the amount of effort he wastes trying to construct a particular image of himself only for the facade to crumble at the slightest push is what would turn you off!

Plus he's been let say some shocking things on here at times and they would leave a bad taste in the mouth.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 4994 - 05/09/2019 13:13:49    2233018

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Will there be less of a Kerry crowd at the replay I wonder given the throw in time? Could have a bearing on the game as the Kerry fans got behind the team and helped in a big way the last day.

KY4SAM2015 (Kerry) - Posts: 871 - 05/09/2019 13:30:49    2233024

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Replying To Dubh_linn:  "If anyone is the " comical Ali " of this site I would suggest it's you.
You seem to row in with the "poor us " and always the victim approach at the drop of a hat.

It's typical " our glorious leader will repel the infidels " waffle.
We all know where that got you. Oh mustn't forget the ;-)."
Dont worry about it Pal. myself and most of the forum realised that he was a troll about a year ago and essentially no one on the main forum responds to him or gives him oxygen. He gets lonely and tries to quote my posts, throw out insults hoping to bait, wishing i will reply. I feel for him a bit, its sad. ;)

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 2805 - 05/09/2019 13:42:54    2233029

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Replying To KY4SAM2015:  "Will there be less of a Kerry crowd at the replay I wonder given the throw in time? Could have a bearing on the game as the Kerry fans got behind the team and helped in a big way the last day."
I doubt they'll have as big a crowd which is a shame. The throw in time is not a help at all, cutting it very close for last train / bus home especially if there is extra time. Is there any reason why they can't do 3:30 again?

keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 887 - 05/09/2019 13:43:18    2233030

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "@ Username no offence taken my point was that the Dubs run a variation of the same system when they don't have the ball. As soon as they lost the ball the midfield and half forwards dropped back. Virtually all teams do this. Howard and Scully spend more time in defence than they do in attack. The aim is to clog up the space around the D and force low percentage attempts, you said so yourself. You cannot do that without bodies back there. You can call it percentage defence or whatever you want but that doesn't change the fact that in essence it's a version of what Kerry were doing. You are taking a couple of minutes at the end where Kerry were trying to cling to a lead and using it to have a veiled dig at Kerry's tactics throughout the game.

McCarthy was marking Tommy for most of the closing stages from what I could make out until they had to throw the kitchen sink at it and take a chance. They had to chase the game so of course the half backs pushed on.

I'd have to look back on the wides in the first half but at the very least two from Clifford were certainly very doable and the goal chances were as clear cut as you'll get so I'm not sure what there is to disagree with."
I take your point Gerry, if we can we bring men back, the Dublin defensive system varies, we can play a double sweeper at times, with the furthest half forward dropping back if we are caught on the breakdown. That can be anyone form Fenton up. We didn't do that on Sunday as we didn't have the men, we also didnt play with Cian either.

Howard and Scully, do an awful lot of work and flood whatever line is needed midfield and defense admittedly, what i would say is this is often to cover or compensate as opposed to spoiling, when jack or McCarthy go on a mazy run, you may see Howard or Scully dropping back on the cover. They certainly do trojen work from the fort as well. I agree to an extent though, we changed to that hybrid approach a couple years ago as opposed to having day Flynn and Connolly much more maverick players. Though i think Brian has it in him. Id still maintain our defensive game plan is far different to Kerry's i think we are little less devil may care, open and cough up chances. Based on structures i seen at the weekend. Obviously we had a hard time of it with a man down.

Im not really having a dig at Kerry tactics, the tactic was successful, i acknowledged that, i also said Kerry are entitled to put up any defensive system they want. they did a great job in closing down space by flooding back and protecting the D. There is something you guys find offensive in Kerry in acknowledging you pay with multiple sweepers or a blanket defense in games. Its perfectly legit-able and this case successful.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 2805 - 05/09/2019 13:54:43    2233037

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Replying To Dubh_linn:  "Yeah, thought you'd like that alright . Right up your street .
You boys must be the Munster version so. Laying waste to the provinces young hopefuls for years.
You will be assimilated . Resistance is futile .

Captain Picard wouldn't know a lot about lucky bags though. D"
Aren't Cork the allireland minor and U21 champions this year? So you can't say that.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 9545 - 05/09/2019 14:24:39    2233043

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