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Kerry V Dublin

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Replying To BeJasus:  "If this was Mayo instead of Kerry last Sunday they would have been lambasted as bottlers by the Media and opinionated people ..

This Dublin team are made of stern stuff and are incredibly difficult to break, even when its put up to them in the most difficult of situations and for that i tip my hat to them.

Both Dublin and the management team had an off -day and still survived.

Kerry were brilliant last Sunday and it looks like they've made the step-up , and will be around for a deacde at least regardless of what happens in the replay."
I'm going to explain to you the difference...
That Mayo team that gave Dublin some great matches but ultimately came up short was a very experience bunch of lads, players that as 1-15 had been been in or around that team for years, they were a team in their prime. They came up short against a fantastic team.
Kerry on the other hand have been a team massively in transition, think of the star players they had that have retired or not available in the last number of years. Donaghy, gooch, the O Se's, omahony, killian Young, Aidan Maher, Darren osullivan, Donie Buckley, Sheehan, Donnacha Walsh...the list is endless, all of these won All Irelands. They rebuilt a young team with numerous lads playing their first final against arguably the greatest county side ever...
I'm shocked this needs explaining and everything i see the comparison to Mayo I'm in disbelief.
I'll go as far as to say Dublin with 14 should have beaten them, but watch this space this Kerry generation will win multiple All Irelands.

PointRoad (Louth) - Posts: 111 - 03/09/2019 11:43:02    2232307

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Holy God, still can't make sense of what happened on Sunday. Did we leave it behind us or will this actually give these young Kerry warriors huge confidence and self-belief to go out and finish the job?

Time will tell, but when will people learn? Dismissing the challenge of a Kerry team go into a final what fools some mortals be!!"
No doubt about it.Kerry have far too much history and tradition to be written off going in to an All-Ireland Final.37 titles says it all.I knew Kerry would give a big performance last Sunday.I thought though that Dublin would play better than they did and of course the sending off was not foreseen and it clearly influenced the game.Dublin know theyr'e up against it now if they're to do 5 in a row.Wasn't there a time when Kerry were considered unbeatable in replays until Offaly beat them in a replayed Final.Think it was 1972.I would fancy Dublin to win the replay but i won't be one bit surprised if Kerry win it .

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2155 - 03/09/2019 11:49:13    2232310

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So basically, all advantages are with Kerry for replay. Can't see how that is the case. If anything it is the same as last Sunday which was a 50/50 call despite what the media say. Both teams will look to improve in certain areas and will need to.
Yes, Kerry have proved that the can handle the big day but sure that is hardly a surprise and the real positives for them were how they overcame a missed penalty and the other goal opportunity cleared off the line. Lesser teams would have cracked at that stage but they didn't. They will expect more from forwards clifford and geaney the next day but similarly Dublin will hope for a marked improvement from Paul Mannion and to a lesser extend CO'C. The Dublin midfield will need to up the anti big time as well if they can. The ironic thing is that the Kerry defence was deemed to performed heroically whereas the Dublin defence was all over the place apparently and yet both conceded the exact same score!!!The game turned midway through second half when Paddy Small's point effort was caught and ended up a brilliant goal at the other end after slip by Davy Byrne. This meant from a 6 point lead it was only 2 and then it looked as if it was there for Kerry but they couldn't get over the line. If anything Dublin with 14 men finished stronger and had the chances to win it. Yes it seems Kerry's bench was far more influential but the Dublin subs with the exception of Small had limited time to get into a cauldron that it was. I would be surprised if the Dublin bench could be as strong as in other years as it doesn't or didn't last sunday contain serial all-ireland medal winners in Brogan, O Gara, Flynn to name but a few. Overall I couldn't see how a draw was not a fair result. I have no doubt that this Kerry team will win all-irelands and it possibly could start saturday week but that game will take a life of it's own. Something really to look forward to as we will either see the crowning of the greatest football team of all time or in my opinion the start of a period of dominance by the Kingdom.

Adamski (Dublin) - Posts: 339 - 03/09/2019 11:54:01    2232318

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Replying To Jonnycee:  "Got the papers this morning and a agog with the overwhelming credit given to Kerry for there display yesterday. Yes they fought hard, but it seems to me that people are missing some very simple facts.
1. Kerry played dublin for almost 45 mins with 15 vs 14.
2.Until the sending off (which i taught was the right call) this game was moving along to its predictable end.
3. Even playing with an extra man the Kerry defence struggled with the dublin attack. And Kerry did not have the nerve to go after the dublin kickouts.
4. With most of the Kerry lads playing at the top of there game and a number of dublin lads underperforming Kerry could not win.
5. Even with a so called star studded forward line Kerry could not create the scored to put dublin to bed.
6. And the Kerry lads were the beneficiaries of some very generous refereeing by Mr Gough.

The term "missed the boat" comes to mind you would have to think that Dublin will improve by 20 % and as it stands currently Kerry have not got the scope for that improvement.
Replays can be an anti climax and I have a feeling this is what will happen."
Sorry, number 3 is just nonsense. Dublin's goal came because Kerry were so aggressively pressing on Dublin's kickout. They did go for it, really pushed up on it in my opinion.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 03/09/2019 11:56:38    2232322

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Honestly, saying Kerry didn't have the nerve to go after the Dublin kickout, did you watch the game? From McStay in the IT:

"The move could have been a Dublin set-play or at least a sketch planted in the minds of the players. But that strategy would fail dramatically if Kerry hadn't pushed up. Pushing up is all fine and good if you can break the ball. But if you concede a clean possession, you better foul fast or you will pay. Dublin took them for 1-3 from that aggression. It was amazing to see just how brave Kerry were on pressuring Dublin's kick-out. But it cost them."

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 03/09/2019 12:16:41    2232333

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Replying To JoeSoap:  "Sorry, number 3 is just nonsense. Dublin's goal came because Kerry were so aggressively pressing on Dublin's kickout. They did go for it, really pushed up on it in my opinion."
I agree with you JoeSoap and I have to say I was a bit surprised to see Kerry getting caught like that for the goal as Cluxton continually plays kick-outs beyond midfield to the left-half forward spot.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 03/09/2019 12:30:01    2232343

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Hearing Fenton was sick all last week and hadn't fully recovered but they went with him yesterday, explains a lot."
Anecdotal evidence is now fact I see. BTW, rumours in Kerry that David Cliffords left leg fell off Saturday night and had to be sewn back on 2 hours before the game. Explains a lot

dakid (Australia) - Posts: 284 - 03/09/2019 12:42:07    2232349

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Replying To Jonnycee:  "Got the papers this morning and a agog with the overwhelming credit given to Kerry for there display yesterday. Yes they fought hard, but it seems to me that people are missing some very simple facts.
1. Kerry played dublin for almost 45 mins with 15 vs 14.
2.Until the sending off (which i taught was the right call) this game was moving along to its predictable end.
3. Even playing with an extra man the Kerry defence struggled with the dublin attack. And Kerry did not have the nerve to go after the dublin kickouts.
4. With most of the Kerry lads playing at the top of there game and a number of dublin lads underperforming Kerry could not win.
5. Even with a so called star studded forward line Kerry could not create the scored to put dublin to bed.
6. And the Kerry lads were the beneficiaries of some very generous refereeing by Mr Gough.

The term "missed the boat" comes to mind you would have to think that Dublin will improve by 20 % and as it stands currently Kerry have not got the scope for that improvement.
Replays can be an anti climax and I have a feeling this is what will happen."
Point 4 is rubbish.

Clifford missed scores he never does. Geaney didn't play well. O'Brien has more in him. Kerry's kick outs were poor enough overall, 2 went over the sideline. Kerry young lads first Senior AI. Kerry have a good record in replays.

Both Kerry and Dublin have equal scope for improvement. Fenton in midfield can only improve. Kilkenny, Mannion and Scully, James McCarthy have more in them etc.

You can look at that match which ever way you want to suit who you want to win, but the fact is whoever will learn the most from the first day and improve the most will win. Dublin in 2016 were expected to easily beat Mayo in the replay. They won because of Hennelly's meltdown really. I feel the Kerry keeper could have this in him too...

Are Dublin showing a little lack of hunger with the length they are on the road? Did the elevation of Connolly do something to the over all morale.

Look no one knows..

Defaulter1831 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 40 - 03/09/2019 12:53:22    2232356

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "The excuses for Fenton are a small bit OTT surely? If he really was that sick he shouldn't have played. They could have started Howard or McCarthy in there. He is allowed to have a quiet game every now and then and he was up against a good Kerry midfield with David Moran in particular playing great football. That may also have had something to do with his muted performance.

Who are the three midfielders btw? Spillane didn't play there."
Moran had a terrific game i agree, i haven't seen him play like that and against Mayo in a long while, i had my doubts about him at the start of the year but he has been terrific.

I suppose its perceptional, on the Fenton issue, i think most would agree he has plenty of headroom regardless of the reason, so we can hope, the talk up here is he had illness last week and wasnt involved hugely in preparation, Kerry lads did great on him to be sure. I think we might rejig the midfield the next day with Jamsey going in and i can see Murch or O Sullivan coming in and taking O Shea.

Spillane came in and was part of the flood and four man press, there were stages when Kerry played with three in there, although it was fluid admittedly, that's fair enough is not a criticism, Dublin also can do this as Rock and Howard proved, though with a man down i was impressed how we were able to put our finger in the dam. I thought Kerry could have used the extra man better myself, it was a very rigid 6 at the back for a 5 man attack. Not a criticism really as they dealt with the Dublin forwards ably and we struggled without the extra man to break down the blanket.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 03/09/2019 12:58:00    2232359

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Replying To dakid:  "Anecdotal evidence is now fact I see. BTW, rumours in Kerry that David Cliffords left leg fell off Saturday night and had to be sewn back on 2 hours before the game. Explains a lot"
His arm wont be feeling the better for Sunday either! :D

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 03/09/2019 12:59:20    2232362

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Replying To TheUsername:  "His arm wont be feeling the better for Sunday either! :D"
Haha.
Did Johny Cooper return Cliffords arm after the game or did he take it home with him? :D

dakid (Australia) - Posts: 284 - 03/09/2019 13:09:10    2232367

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You can look at that match which ever way you want to suit who you want to win, but the fact is whoever will learn the most from the first day and improve the most will win. Dublin in 2016 were expected to easily beat Mayo in the replay. They won because of Hennelly's meltdown really. I feel the Kerry keeper could have this in him too...

Are Dublin showing a little lack of hunger with the length they are on the road? Did the elevation of Connolly do something to the over all morale.

Look no one knows..
Defaulter1831 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 24 - 03/09/2019 12:53:22

No they weren't. That's just made up stuff.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 03/09/2019 13:17:12    2232373

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Replying To MesAmis:  "You can look at that match which ever way you want to suit who you want to win, but the fact is whoever will learn the most from the first day and improve the most will win. Dublin in 2016 were expected to easily beat Mayo in the replay. They won because of Hennelly's meltdown really. I feel the Kerry keeper could have this in him too...

Are Dublin showing a little lack of hunger with the length they are on the road? Did the elevation of Connolly do something to the over all morale.

Look no one knows..
Defaulter1831 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 24 - 03/09/2019 12:53:22

No they weren't. That's just made up stuff."
Ah they were. Mayo missed the boat etc.

Shur everything is made up stuff ;) Every article you read, be it online or in print. Opinion is all made up by the author :)

Defaulter1831 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 40 - 03/09/2019 13:31:09    2232378

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Replying To dakid:  "Haha.
Did Johny Cooper return Cliffords arm after the game or did he take it home with him? :D"
Hopefully, its at Cooper HQ, helping to get the mugs of the top shelf.

The lads so good he probably only needs the one arm to be fair to him.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 03/09/2019 13:32:40    2232379

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Moran had a terrific game i agree, i haven't seen him play like that and against Mayo in a long while, i had my doubts about him at the start of the year but he has been terrific.

I suppose its perceptional, on the Fenton issue, i think most would agree he has plenty of headroom regardless of the reason, so we can hope, the talk up here is he had illness last week and wasnt involved hugely in preparation, Kerry lads did great on him to be sure. I think we might rejig the midfield the next day with Jamsey going in and i can see Murch or O Sullivan coming in and taking O Shea.

Spillane came in and was part of the flood and four man press, there were stages when Kerry played with three in there, although it was fluid admittedly, that's fair enough is not a criticism, Dublin also can do this as Rock and Howard proved, though with a man down i was impressed how we were able to put our finger in the dam. I thought Kerry could have used the extra man better myself, it was a very rigid 6 at the back for a 5 man attack. Not a criticism really as they dealt with the Dublin forwards ably and we struggled without the extra man to break down the blanket."
Also though Brain Howard made children of the Kerry midfield as the game wore on dancing through them, i think the Kerry midfield notably faded as the game wore on, as good a performance as the game for 60 odd minutes.

A definite strategy for us if Barry is given the man marking job is to use Fenton as a decoy and go three in there at phases, with Jamsey and Howard, Kerry dont have an answer for Howard in my opinion. People talk about Jack and he was exceptional but Brian Howard gave a man mountain performance, dancing through Kerry lines, playing half back, midfield and half forward, what a player.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 03/09/2019 13:41:32    2232380

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Also though Brain Howard made children of the Kerry midfield as the game wore on dancing through them, i think the Kerry midfield notably faded as the game wore on, as good a performance as the game for 60 odd minutes.

A definite strategy for us if Barry is given the man marking job is to use Fenton as a decoy and go three in there at phases, with Jamsey and Howard, Kerry dont have an answer for Howard in my opinion. People talk about Jack and he was exceptional but Brian Howard gave a man mountain performance, dancing through Kerry lines, playing half back, midfield and half forward, what a player."
Spillane was on Howard for most of the game and I'd agree it's not a good match up for Kerry. I can't think of who else would have the physicality and engine to stick with him though and I had a feeling he was going to be a problem before the game. He fielded a few beauties out by the wing but I couldn't see him doing that v Moran and Barry in the middle to be honest. His role the last day was perfect and if I was Gavin I'd use him like that again as long as it's working.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 03/09/2019 16:03:14    2232457

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@username forgot to say I agree with you that in hindsight we misused the extra man early in the second half. I think Peter Keane thought that he could use the extra body in defence and pick Dublin off. It was a reasonable thing to do but it was clear after 10-15 mins that it wasn't happening. It was only when we abandoned the sweeper and brought Spillane and Walsh in that we pulled the lead back. If they had done that at half time who knows what might have happened.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 03/09/2019 16:55:49    2232472

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Replying To Defaulter1831:  "
Replying To MesAmis:  "You can look at that match which ever way you want to suit who you want to win, but the fact is whoever will learn the most from the first day and improve the most will win. Dublin in 2016 were expected to easily beat Mayo in the replay. They won because of Hennelly's meltdown really. I feel the Kerry keeper could have this in him too...

Are Dublin showing a little lack of hunger with the length they are on the road? Did the elevation of Connolly do something to the over all morale.

Look no one knows..
Defaulter1831 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 24 - 03/09/2019 12:53:22

No they weren't. That's just made up stuff."
Ah they were. Mayo missed the boat etc.

Shur everything is made up stuff ;) Every article you read, be it online or in print. Opinion is all made up by the author :)"
Opinion? Some come within an ass's roar and some dont! Assuming that it's all down to set plays, gym stats and whatever else is going this season is wrong. Ultimately, it's about showing dog in the fight... as long as you have the talent with it.

plike (Kerry) - Posts: 569 - 03/09/2019 17:45:20    2232488

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "@username forgot to say I agree with you that in hindsight we misused the extra man early in the second half. I think Peter Keane thought that he could use the extra body in defence and pick Dublin off. It was a reasonable thing to do but it was clear after 10-15 mins that it wasn't happening. It was only when we abandoned the sweeper and brought Spillane and Walsh in that we pulled the lead back. If they had done that at half time who knows what might have happened."
All fair Gerry, Howard is some bolster in there for the flood, hes a cracking player, one of my favorite Dublin ones, i often think hes underrated until you see him in the flesh.

In a way Keane was right though, Gavin could have done a lot tactically in the second half to cover the spare man so i understand him delaying the subs until the Dublin repsonse became known. The conventional thinking was the third quarter was Dublins most dangerous as well, so maybe he was adhering to that narrative and trying to give them a chance coming down the straight, so it worked. Hindsight is great thing!

Walsh made an impact coming on, but it also allowed Dublin to be more mobile and commit more men forward, Howard made hay when Walsh came on as there was no way he was marking him. We also introduced Murch whos mobility and offensive play through the center hurt Kerry i felt when Walsh came on we got bolder. I think in the end we abandoned even marking Walsh and Cluxton marked him. There were pros and cons to Walsh i thought. Killian Spillane had a good impact, the goal was a bit fortuitous and Davey and Fits will be dissapointed with their two individual errors, as will Cluxton for that matter - ii though he could have done better, but you make you own luck and Walsh and Killian did well and to be fair to Kerry they missed easier chances for goals on the day so maybe it was coming.

I remember Killain being a crack underage player good to see him find his feet at this level, i was more impressed with the couple of big points he got at clutch times. Really put his hand up for the shirt i thought.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 03/09/2019 18:04:22    2232498

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Replying To dakid:  "Haha.
Did Johny Cooper return Cliffords arm after the game or did he take it home with him? :D"
Should've been a free out.......

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 03/09/2019 18:47:48    2232514

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