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Limerick V Kilkenny

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Replying To Champions2018:  "Am i correct guys that because Buckley wasnt 13m away from the cut, that it should have been a limerick frees 13m closer in or on the 20m line, instead of a 65. Both of these were clear to me watching the game naked eye.
Think myself it was a Limerick line ball."
From my seat, it was difficult to see. On reviewing it, the linesman appears to be directing Buckley of where he can't go beyond by putting his arm out and in my opinion Buckley was in line with the linesman. Again, the linesmans position in line with Buckley being an issue.

It is impossible to definitively say how close Buckley was without getting into the realms of technology delays. It is very difficult for the linesman to police that rule because 13m at one angle could be 11m at another or whatever.

There was an incident in the minor match (I think) when limerick took a sideline infront of the Cusack in the second half and a player went short and the taker hit it no more than 7-8 metres. It wasn't called but was blatant and in another match could have been very costly. Some incidents are such tight calls that I think we would be wrong to criticise them.

KK4Life (Kilkenny) - Posts: 56 - 30/07/2019 11:58:20    2218685

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Replying To Champions2018:  "Am i correct guys that because Buckley wasnt 13m away from the cut, that it should have been a limerick frees 13m closer in or on the 20m line, instead of a 65. Both of these were clear to me watching the game naked eye.
Think myself it was a Limerick line ball."
It would be a free 13 meters forward up to the 21 although a free on the sideline at the 21 would be worse than a 65.

Although I understand why Limerick fans would be aggrieved, if you went back and looked at every single decision over the game god knows what the outcome would have been.

Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 30/07/2019 12:02:16    2218687

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Replying To Champions2018:  "Am i correct guys that because Buckley wasnt 13m away from the cut, that it should have been a limerick frees 13m closer in or on the 20m line, instead of a 65. Both of these were clear to me watching the game naked eye.
Think myself it was a Limerick line ball."
Yes, that is correct.

fainleog (Limerick) - Posts: 598 - 30/07/2019 12:02:54    2218688

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Spot on.

Three days on it is still very raw but well done Kilkenny. I thought it was a 50/50 game and Kilkenny did the business to come out on top. If they win the final this year it is Cody's greatest ever achievement. Not a panel with the rapier like quality of Brennan, Shefflin, Carter or Carey nor the defenders like Tyrell, Delaney or Hickey, but a panel of lads who brought frenetic aggression to the table and toppled the champions.

Well done.


I'm sure the vast majority of Limerick fans walked out of Croke Park saying ye were beaten by the better team on the day but we didn't hear them. Likewise, the majority of Kilkenny fans walked out saying, 'we were the better team, we could easily have lost, we go again the next day' but again, we weren't heard saying that.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 30/07/2019 12:03:29    2218689

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Replying To slayer:  "Spot on.

Three days on it is still very raw but well done Kilkenny. I thought it was a 50/50 game and Kilkenny did the business to come out on top. If they win the final this year it is Cody's greatest ever achievement. Not a panel with the rapier like quality of Brennan, Shefflin, Carter or Carey nor the defenders like Tyrell, Delaney or Hickey, but a panel of lads who brought frenetic aggression to the table and toppled the champions.

Well done.


I'm sure the vast majority of Limerick fans walked out of Croke Park saying ye were beaten by the better team on the day but we didn't hear them. Likewise, the majority of Kilkenny fans walked out saying, 'we were the better team, we could easily have lost, we go again the next day' but again, we weren't heard saying that."
Walking out of Croke Park I heard plenty of Limerick folks congratulate KK folks. One in particular with a teary eye patted one of my Kilkenny wearing kids on the head with ' well done , good luck in the final ' . I just told him that Limerick are great champions and filed on out of the stadium. Limerick will be back , they have the look of a set-up who will be more determined by Saturdays setback.

Finsceal (None) - Posts: 559 - 30/07/2019 12:52:20    2218713

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Replying To slayer:  "Spot on.

Three days on it is still very raw but well done Kilkenny. I thought it was a 50/50 game and Kilkenny did the business to come out on top. If they win the final this year it is Cody's greatest ever achievement. Not a panel with the rapier like quality of Brennan, Shefflin, Carter or Carey nor the defenders like Tyrell, Delaney or Hickey, but a panel of lads who brought frenetic aggression to the table and toppled the champions.

Well done.


I'm sure the vast majority of Limerick fans walked out of Croke Park saying ye were beaten by the better team on the day but we didn't hear them. Likewise, the majority of Kilkenny fans walked out saying, 'we were the better team, we could easily have lost, we go again the next day' but again, we weren't heard saying that."
Champions who had liost their edge and 3 games in this year's championship.Limerick at their best would have won last Saturday night Kilkenny intensity or not Hard to do back to back and Limerick players would have had a lot of engagements to attend after winning the All-Ireland for the first time in 45 years.It was predictable in some ways that Cody's Kilkenny would take them out.That Limerick team will be back though.Too talented not to be.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2154 - 30/07/2019 13:29:20    2218727

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Replying To fainleog:  "Yes, that is correct."
This evening in Kilkenny I was talking to a keen hurling man and a selector with a legendary KK club. He assured me as he just beside the scene that Paul Murphy was the last man to touch the ball before it over the sideline. He said he 100% certain of this.
However we will conclude this now and move on. Best of luck to KK.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4316 - 30/07/2019 18:14:58    2218837

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Replying To endgame:  "
Replying To slayer:  "Spot on.

Three days on it is still very raw but well done Kilkenny. I thought it was a 50/50 game and Kilkenny did the business to come out on top. If they win the final this year it is Cody's greatest ever achievement. Not a panel with the rapier like quality of Brennan, Shefflin, Carter or Carey nor the defenders like Tyrell, Delaney or Hickey, but a panel of lads who brought frenetic aggression to the table and toppled the champions.

Well done.


I'm sure the vast majority of Limerick fans walked out of Croke Park saying ye were beaten by the better team on the day but we didn't hear them. Likewise, the majority of Kilkenny fans walked out saying, 'we were the better team, we could easily have lost, we go again the next day' but again, we weren't heard saying that."
Champions who had liost their edge and 3 games in this year's championship.Limerick at their best would have won last Saturday night Kilkenny intensity or not Hard to do back to back and Limerick players would have had a lot of engagements to attend after winning the All-Ireland for the first time in 45 years.It was predictable in some ways that Cody's Kilkenny would take them out.That Limerick team will be back though.Too talented not to be."
"... Limerick players would have had a lot of engagements to attend after winning the All-Ireland for the first time in 45 years."

Ah lads, as excuses go, I've heard it all now!

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 30/07/2019 18:19:27    2218841

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Lads - I missed the game so I was hoping someone might steer me in the right direction to get a copy of be able to watch it somewhere. Cheers!

CatDub (USA) - Posts: 2 - 30/07/2019 21:51:02    2218913

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Replying To KK4Life:  "From my seat, it was difficult to see. On reviewing it, the linesman appears to be directing Buckley of where he can't go beyond by putting his arm out and in my opinion Buckley was in line with the linesman. Again, the linesmans position in line with Buckley being an issue.

It is impossible to definitively say how close Buckley was without getting into the realms of technology delays. It is very difficult for the linesman to police that rule because 13m at one angle could be 11m at another or whatever.

There was an incident in the minor match (I think) when limerick took a sideline infront of the Cusack in the second half and a player went short and the taker hit it no more than 7-8 metres. It wasn't called but was blatant and in another match could have been very costly. Some incidents are such tight calls that I think we would be wrong to criticise them."
Re the line ball that went no further than 7-8 metres , there is no rule regarding distance travelled , only that players must be 13m away at the taking of it. Galway tried a trick play in Sunday's minor game by tapping it a small distance as the second player walked over pretending to go and take the sideline. However the ref blew it back for no apparent reason.

conordee (Galway) - Posts: 440 - 30/07/2019 22:31:22    2218931

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Replying To Faithfull:  "It would be a free 13 meters forward up to the 21 although a free on the sideline at the 21 would be worse than a 65.

Although I understand why Limerick fans would be aggrieved, if you went back and looked at every single decision over the game god knows what the outcome would have been."
Well Pat Horgan got a very simple free to level last years semi final and I have often seen what could be called 40/60 frees often given in these circumstance, where the ref seems to conclude 'this is too close to call', lets go again, whether it be extra time or a replay. In fact I have often heard referees being accused of 'making a draw of it'. But I can see the logic in that. It is widely said KK were the better team last Saturday and certainly were well on top early on and in the fact that Limerick never leveled up the game. However it could be countered that despite that early KK onslaught, Limerick outscored KK by 2.15 to 13 points in the last sixty minutes of the game. Anyway I have long lost count of the number of games I have attended where 'the better team' was overhauled at the death only to be destroyed in extra time or in a replay. However this debate has gone on long enough now and the best of luck to KK.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4316 - 31/07/2019 07:49:00    2218982

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Replying To ballydalane:  "
Replying To endgame:  "[quote=slayer:  "Spot on.

Three days on it is still very raw but well done Kilkenny. I thought it was a 50/50 game and Kilkenny did the business to come out on top. If they win the final this year it is Cody's greatest ever achievement. Not a panel with the rapier like quality of Brennan, Shefflin, Carter or Carey nor the defenders like Tyrell, Delaney or Hickey, but a panel of lads who brought frenetic aggression to the table and toppled the champions.

Well done.


I'm sure the vast majority of Limerick fans walked out of Croke Park saying ye were beaten by the better team on the day but we didn't hear them. Likewise, the majority of Kilkenny fans walked out saying, 'we were the better team, we could easily have lost, we go again the next day' but again, we weren't heard saying that."
Champions who had liost their edge and 3 games in this year's championship.Limerick at their best would have won last Saturday night Kilkenny intensity or not Hard to do back to back and Limerick players would have had a lot of engagements to attend after winning the All-Ireland for the first time in 45 years.It was predictable in some ways that Cody's Kilkenny would take them out.That Limerick team will be back though.Too talented not to be."
"... Limerick players would have had a lot of engagements to attend after winning the All-Ireland for the first time in 45 years."

Ah lads, as excuses go, I've heard it all now!"]No excuses lad, enjoy the final :-)

"... Limerick players would have had a lot of engagements to attend after winning the All-Ireland for the first time in 45 years."

Ah lads, as excuses go, I've heard it all now!
ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 915 - 30/07/2019 18:19:27

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 31/07/2019 10:59:26    2219027

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No idea why the last message got screwed up, probably PEBKAC, but this is in reply to Ballydalane:

No excuses here - enjoy the final!

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 31/07/2019 11:21:28    2219038

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Replying To conordee:  "Re the line ball that went no further than 7-8 metres , there is no rule regarding distance travelled , only that players must be 13m away at the taking of it. Galway tried a trick play in Sunday's minor game by tapping it a small distance as the second player walked over pretending to go and take the sideline. However the ref blew it back for no apparent reason."
Sorry, I may not have been very clear in my previous comment. The ball was struck the 7 or 8 metres direct to a player. I've probably hit more sidelines that went less than 13m than went more!!!

KK4Life (Kilkenny) - Posts: 56 - 31/07/2019 11:40:02    2219043

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An off colour Limerick team beaten by 1 point with a side line decision that was wrong on Two fronts and we all know Buckley should have got red card so he should not have been on the pitch even to make that block. Limerick actually did deserve extra time despite the 15 wides they got themselves back in the game not playing well and got deprived of what they deserved that chance by a bad decision. Gillanes penalty may be soft but Fennelly got away with steps that evens that out. A sign of a good team is to stay in a game not playing well Limerick done that. And the behind the sideline cut clip shows O'Donovan made a good connection so it may have been going over the bar. A team was deprived of extra time in an All Ireland semi final the panel, managers and backroom staff deserve better. And us Limerick folk deserves better then the bashing we have been getting since not only from the opposition county supporters on the day who suffer from a Liverpool fans syndrome Tunnel Vision but other supposed hurling fans too.

LuimneachDaithi (Limerick) - Posts: 7 - 31/07/2019 12:02:04    2219056

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Well Pat Horgan got a very simple free to level last years semi final and I have often seen what could be called 40/60 frees often given in these circumstance, where the ref seems to conclude 'this is too close to call', lets go again, whether it be extra time or a replay. In fact I have often heard referees being accused of 'making a draw of it'. But I can see the logic in that. It is widely said KK were the better team last Saturday and certainly were well on top early on and in the fact that Limerick never leveled up the game. However it could be countered that despite that early KK onslaught, Limerick outscored KK by 2.15 to 13 points in the last sixty minutes of the game. Anyway I have long lost count of the number of games I have attended where 'the better team' was overhauled at the death only to be destroyed in extra time or in a replay. However this debate has gone on long enough now and the best of luck to KK."
Probably similar to the 2007 final. After the initial KK 10 minute onslaught didn't Limerick actually outscore KK for the remainder of the game.

My observation on the game was that KK had 2 purple patches, one in the first half to go 8 points up and one in the second half to go 5 points up. Say 25 minutes of hurling. Limerick had the purple patch to bring it back to 3 and another purple patch in the last quarter. Probably 30 minutes. The main difference was when KK had their patch Limerick were hitting wides whereas when Limerick were on top KK were still scoring the odd point to just keep out in front.

You're right, semi finals have probably been exhausted now!

Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 31/07/2019 12:06:56    2219059

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Replying To LuimneachDaithi:  "An off colour Limerick team beaten by 1 point with a side line decision that was wrong on Two fronts and we all know Buckley should have got red card so he should not have been on the pitch even to make that block. Limerick actually did deserve extra time despite the 15 wides they got themselves back in the game not playing well and got deprived of what they deserved that chance by a bad decision. Gillanes penalty may be soft but Fennelly got away with steps that evens that out. A sign of a good team is to stay in a game not playing well Limerick done that. And the behind the sideline cut clip shows O'Donovan made a good connection so it may have been going over the bar. A team was deprived of extra time in an All Ireland semi final the panel, managers and backroom staff deserve better. And us Limerick folk deserves better then the bashing we have been getting since not only from the opposition county supporters on the day who suffer from a Liverpool fans syndrome Tunnel Vision but other supposed hurling fans too."
Maybe you can lodge an official complaint with the GAA......oh, sorry, you're County Board have already done that!

Ye have a very good hurling team but my God, that's petty, small-time stuff. I'd say yer players are mortified. It's like your Mammy coming into your class to give out to the teacher.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 31/07/2019 13:33:08    2219086

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Replying To LuimneachDaithi:  "An off colour Limerick team beaten by 1 point with a side line decision that was wrong on Two fronts and we all know Buckley should have got red card so he should not have been on the pitch even to make that block. Limerick actually did deserve extra time despite the 15 wides they got themselves back in the game not playing well and got deprived of what they deserved that chance by a bad decision. Gillanes penalty may be soft but Fennelly got away with steps that evens that out. A sign of a good team is to stay in a game not playing well Limerick done that. And the behind the sideline cut clip shows O'Donovan made a good connection so it may have been going over the bar. A team was deprived of extra time in an All Ireland semi final the panel, managers and backroom staff deserve better. And us Limerick folk deserves better then the bashing we have been getting since not only from the opposition county supporters on the day who suffer from a Liverpool fans syndrome Tunnel Vision but other supposed hurling fans too."
As has been stated already one of Limericks scores from a free came from an incorrect illegal handpass call by the ref, so if you had got and scored your 65, Kilkenny would have been deprived of a win that they deserved.

It is likely that Limerick would have scored the 65, but its not certain. It is certain that Limerick scored the aforementioned free for the 'throw' by TJ Reid. Such is sport, you had more than the rub of the green in last years QF.

Buckley was lucky not to get a red this time round and last year Limerick should have been down to 14 for 60 minutes of the game for this https://youtu.be/OjL94ykHeu8?t=278

As we in Kilkenny know well, when public sentiment is with your opponent, for example when you are champions, people are quick to gloss over injustices suffered, and you just have to move on. If this sideline incident happened in the first minute there would be little to no mention of it. Besides, and I mentioned this elsewhere, that looking back on discussions from during the match on a few forums, that most neutrals had the opinion that the ref was being harder on Kilkenny than Limerick.

Heftydickonem (Kilkenny) - Posts: 175 - 31/07/2019 13:47:56    2219094

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Lads. Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the game? Thanks!

CatDub (USA) - Posts: 2 - 31/07/2019 15:39:42    2219139

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Replying To ballydalane:  "Maybe you can lodge an official complaint with the GAA......oh, sorry, you're County Board have already done that!

Ye have a very good hurling team but my God, that's petty, small-time stuff. I'd say yer players are mortified. It's like your Mammy coming into your class to give out to the teacher."
Jesus great reply.

LuimneachDaithi (Limerick) - Posts: 7 - 31/07/2019 17:03:40    2219173

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