National Forum

Kerry V Donegal

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Replying To Al_Maguire:  "You're the one making the comments. O'Brien moved head first into his opponent and head butted the guy in possession. He didn't stand still.

And besides Ryan McHugh scored a goal just after it anyway.

A couple of neutral supporter have also said it was 100% a penalty.

And I don't really do whataboutery. There was fouling by both teams. In fact statisically we scored more frees which indicates consistent fouling by your backs on our forwards.

I've yet to watch a game where backs don't foul forwards.

Maybe take your blinkers off?"
It didn't look like Steve moved into his way from the cusack stand where I was sitting, now I haven't had the opportunity to look at it back yet but I'm real time it looked like he stood him up,.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 22/07/2019 12:43:29    2214644

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Replying To Sindar:  ""And it's still obstructing the player in possession. So that's a foul". Have a think about what you've just said there. Every player on the field is trying to obstruct the player in possession. It's usually referred to as defending and there is mention of it being a foul in the rulebook. It would be a different game if there was"
I don't really do pedantry either.

Illegally obstructing the player in possession.

Does that make you happy?

It's still a foul.

Al_Maguire (Donegal) - Posts: 244 - 22/07/2019 12:45:45    2214647

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A very good performance yesterday. I thought at one stage we were going to ship a heavy defeat as the Kerry forwards started to click but we kept a lid on it. A few points of note from me.

1. Gallen has to start. We're simply better when he's on the pitch.
2. When Langan went to midfield we got better. It's his best position and he's a better fielder than Hugh.
3. We started the game with almost a reserve defence, they were shaky at times but overall have to be commended. McMenamin had his finest game in a Donegal Jersey.
4. Ryan McHugh is one of the best players in Ireland at the moment and Murphy is just awesome.

It's now winner takes all in Castlebar. We are in exactly the same position as we were going into final game last year but probably in a better place as Mayo are not firing, but of course that doesn't mean it'll be easy. It most certainly won't.

fatkeeper (Dublin) - Posts: 316 - 22/07/2019 12:52:10    2214652

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A game we should have won, it was an exciting game no doubt and some top quality scores and plays, hopefully now we beat Mayo and get to the semi final most likely against Dublin, that's probably the end of the road though, but if we get that far and get a few senior players back from injury we will give Dublin a serious rattle, Kerry v Tyrone is 50/50 hard to call this far out.
of course if Tyrone beat Dublin and we lose to Mayo that changes the whole thing!!!

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2747 - 22/07/2019 12:57:28    2214658

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "A game we should have won, it was an exciting game no doubt and some top quality scores and plays, hopefully now we beat Mayo and get to the semi final most likely against Dublin, that's probably the end of the road though, but if we get that far and get a few senior players back from injury we will give Dublin a serious rattle, Kerry v Tyrone is 50/50 hard to call this far out.
of course if Tyrone beat Dublin and we lose to Mayo that changes the whole thing!!!"
How do you conclude you should have won?

westkerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1250 - 22/07/2019 13:02:27    2214662

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A couple of very cranky Kerry lads on here this morning.

It was a great game & a draw was a fair enough result. Yes we can debate a few things but no need to go all Jimbo on it.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 22/07/2019 13:02:50    2214663

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I personally didn't think it was a foul. I think the clash of heads made it look more than it was so the ref gave it. I saw it as O'Brien making himself big and strong and the attacker with little room trying to burst through. I was always taught that if you stand up square when defending, the man carrying has the responsibility to try and evade the tackle. If he keeps running straight it's charging. The point is, if the Donegal lad had just sidestepped, I'd say O'Brien would have used his arms and fouled him anyway at that speed. It should have been a free out.
For the record, I think Donegal deserved that bit of luck for their overall performance as I think they shaded it. Both sides were excellent though.

BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 311 - 22/07/2019 13:11:36    2214668

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It was a great game for sure and one which will stand to the young players on both respective teams.

If there was one bit of criticism I'd have is Paul Brennan twice choosing completely the wrong option. We'd had a sustained period of possession at one stage, popping it around and probing for an opening to get one of our shooters in a scoring position. This was also having the added benefit of forcing Kerry to chase the ball in extremely tiring conditions. Brennan then got possession and attempted a 50 or 60 yard pass down the pitch which resulted in lost possession and a Kerry score.

The second instance was when he chose a totally over-ambitious shot with the outside of his right foot. Those are the kind of attempts you take on when you're comfortably ahead in a match with a brandy and a cigar. Not when you're playing Kerry in Croke Park in a helter-skelter championship match! It's all about percentages and is one of the reasons Dublin are so good. They choose the right option so often. Could also apply the same logic to the butchered goal chance.

Maybe I'm being overly critical but the fact is that in order to further close the gap on the very best teams then these are the types of decisions and execution that we need to start getting right as close to 100% of the time as possible. (See also Jamie Brennan blasting over against Meath when he had Paddy begging for the simple palm to the net)

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9135 - 22/07/2019 13:19:43    2214674

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Replying To MuckrossHead:  "A couple of very cranky Kerry lads on here this morning.

It was a great game & a draw was a fair enough result. Yes we can debate a few things but no need to go all Jimbo on it."
Your right Muck appologies.

westkerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1250 - 22/07/2019 13:23:14    2214680

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what a game. outstanding by both teams. Kerry should have won but could easily have lost to a gret Donegal team.
I was satisfied with the draw to be fair.
We should top the group now as I expect a very close game in castlebar.

woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 22/07/2019 13:43:09    2214694

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Replying To Al_Maguire:  "I don't really do pedantry either.

Illegally obstructing the player in possession.

Does that make you happy?

It's still a foul."
I'm a very happy person most days thanks.
He got in the way (or "obstruct" if you prefer) of Ó Baoill's route to goal and stood his ground though he certainly did take a step to meet him. The only mention of "obstruct" in the Official Guide is "To use the hurley to obstruct an opponent". I think we can both agree he wasn't carrying a hurley at the time.

I've gone to the bother of getting a clip of it and I also sent it into a WhatsApp group of referees that I'm in. Four said it was penalty and five said it wasn't. Those who said it was quoted the charging rule (To charge an opponent in the back or to the front). They never heard of "illegal obstruction" either.

However, I'm going to change my mind on reviewing it again as he did move forward to meet Ó Baoill and his arms where high. So it probably was a penalty. Does that make you happy?

You might also clear up where the headbutt is that you mentioned earlier? Collision of heads for sure but that's hardly the same thing.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_aZJSX_z2x3mHYwFfIt8f3pqPjdeRDFx/view

Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 348 - 22/07/2019 13:43:12    2214695

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Replying To BaldyBadger:  "I personally didn't think it was a foul. I think the clash of heads made it look more than it was so the ref gave it. I saw it as O'Brien making himself big and strong and the attacker with little room trying to burst through. I was always taught that if you stand up square when defending, the man carrying has the responsibility to try and evade the tackle. If he keeps running straight it's charging. The point is, if the Donegal lad had just sidestepped, I'd say O'Brien would have used his arms and fouled him anyway at that speed. It should have been a free out.
For the record, I think Donegal deserved that bit of luck for their overall performance as I think they shaded it. Both sides were excellent though."
Yep, that was my reading of it.
I don't think we were hard done by as it's easy to see why it was given.

Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 22/07/2019 13:46:44    2214697

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Replying To BaldyBadger:  "I personally didn't think it was a foul. I think the clash of heads made it look more than it was so the ref gave it. I saw it as O'Brien making himself big and strong and the attacker with little room trying to burst through. I was always taught that if you stand up square when defending, the man carrying has the responsibility to try and evade the tackle. If he keeps running straight it's charging. The point is, if the Donegal lad had just sidestepped, I'd say O'Brien would have used his arms and fouled him anyway at that speed. It should have been a free out.
For the record, I think Donegal deserved that bit of luck for their overall performance as I think they shaded it. Both sides were excellent though."
Exactly baldybadger , O'brien was hardly going to get out of his way.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 22/07/2019 13:56:33    2214706

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Replying To Sindar:  "I'm a very happy person most days thanks.
He got in the way (or "obstruct" if you prefer) of Ó Baoill's route to goal and stood his ground though he certainly did take a step to meet him. The only mention of "obstruct" in the Official Guide is "To use the hurley to obstruct an opponent". I think we can both agree he wasn't carrying a hurley at the time.

I've gone to the bother of getting a clip of it and I also sent it into a WhatsApp group of referees that I'm in. Four said it was penalty and five said it wasn't. Those who said it was quoted the charging rule (To charge an opponent in the back or to the front). They never heard of "illegal obstruction" either.

However, I'm going to change my mind on reviewing it again as he did move forward to meet Ó Baoill and his arms where high. So it probably was a penalty. Does that make you happy?

You might also clear up where the headbutt is that you mentioned earlier? Collision of heads for sure but that's hardly the same thing.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_aZJSX_z2x3mHYwFfIt8f3pqPjdeRDFx/view"
When you hit someone on the head with your head it's a head butt. I didn't say he purposely or recklessy did it. But his momentum lead in head first... gave himself a bloody nose in the process... he ceratinly doesn't just stand there and is charged at like other posters are saying.

As i'm not a referee I didn't know the exact phrasing for taking a man out of it in this way. But a frontal charge is still a type of 'illegal obstruction' of the player in plain English, if not the rule book term.

Whatever phrasing you want me to use... it's good to know that you now think its a foul.

But my other point - which everyone ignored - is that if it's not a penalty, it's still a goal to Donegal by Ryan McHugh.

Al_Maguire (Donegal) - Posts: 244 - 22/07/2019 14:18:41    2214727

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Beauty in the eye of the beholder re the peno incident. I can see both arguments, but u might have to argue a bit harder to convince innocence in tackle over charging. Watch again for the craic.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 22/07/2019 14:37:14    2214739

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Exactly baldybadger , O'brien was hardly going to get out of his way."
I agree but I think the issue for him from a defender POV is that he's making no attempt to play the ball. O'Baoill has dropped the ball to take a shot but O'Brien has stayed high with his tackle. Definite pen for me.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 22/07/2019 14:41:57    2214743

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Replying To Sindar:  "You're talking complete nonsense - there was no headbutt!! Here's a neutral who says it was not a penalty. Donegal got lucky. Take the blinkers off!"
Got Lucky? Ryan McHugh scored a goal in the follow up but ref had blown the whistle. A goal was the fair outcome in that instance.

Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 459 - 22/07/2019 14:54:59    2214753

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Replying To MuckrossHead:  "A couple of very cranky Kerry lads on here this morning.

It was a great game & a draw was a fair enough result. Yes we can debate a few things but no need to go all Jimbo on it."
Some of them get cranky alright if you don't let them win. They like to be telling you how great you are when you lose but by Jaysus if you dare bate them then you'll see the mask slip a small bit. ''Twas a good game alright and I'd say it'll stand to Donegal when in Castlebar in a couple of weeks.Kerry however will top the group as they'll get past Meath by a bigger score I'd say. Things are hotting up a small bit now alright.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 22/07/2019 15:16:31    2214766

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Replying To MuckrossHead:  "A couple of very cranky Kerry lads on here this morning.

It was a great game & a draw was a fair enough result. Yes we can debate a few things but no need to go all Jimbo on it."
Ahh to be fair to the Kerry lads it's hard to keep calm when posters like catch22 spout utter anti Kerry nonsense.

dakid (Australia) - Posts: 284 - 22/07/2019 15:31:09    2214776

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I'm not gonna read back through every comment so not sure if it's been mentioned but Patton's goalkeeping was really poor for Kerry goal. Geaney's shot was pretty central and while not exactly tame it was very stoppable. Patton knew it too, he was clearly annoyed with himself after the ensuing kick-out. Some of his defenders were bemused it got past him also.

Adler (Monaghan) - Posts: 754 - 22/07/2019 16:21:13    2214816

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