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Replying To PaudieSull1: "EJ there are a couple of things here.....firstly Laois, Westmeath, Offaly, Meath are all in Leinster hence the focus is always going to be on an expansion in the Leinster section ( even geographically it is closer for Antrim as well) that's reality
Also the soundings out of Leinster are that they are open to a six team group, its their championship so up to them in many ways and I think it will happen.....there is no appetite for the Munster counties to open it up to six counties and bring Kerry in ( not even Kerry want that)......again that is reality, it has nothing to do with your 'Munster snobbery' chip on your shoulder nonsense just facts
Carlow stay up and Laois are promoted which leaves only four in Mc Donagh cup so that needs sorted as well ( make that six too? don't relegate Offaly and put both down and Meath up which means the winners of Ring each year have at least one winnable game to target to stay up and consolidate).......as big an issue is the u20B competition with two walkovers already and a lopsided draw, this should be kept to the 6/8 counties that really want to play and give them 3 games in round robin with top teams playing in final.....no opportunity to develop lads in a competition where half the games won't even be played......" All that makes absolute sense. The aim should be to get all the developing counties up to the next standard up from where they are at now. Obviously the key to this is to get playing numbers up in those counties. And a successful county team is 1 of the best ways to achieve that. There are loads of young lads with hurls in there hands pucking a ball around the streets of the village I live in which wasnt the case 5 years ago. And obviously from the point of view of senior county player standards it would obviously help the top players in Laois or Carlow for talks sake to be playing more games against Limerick or Wexford or Cork or Tipp or Kilkenny. And furthur down the pyramid wouldnt it be great for hurling in Down or Meath to see highlights of their senior teams on the Sunday Game playing Offaly or Westmeath in the Joe McDonagh? RTE have to be brought on board too- maybe tell them its a condition of their tv rights package for the AI finals that they have to show highlights of the 2nd tier games?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 08/07/2019 11:38:12
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Replying To PaudieSull1: "EJ there are a couple of things here.....firstly Laois, Westmeath, Offaly, Meath are all in Leinster hence the focus is always going to be on an expansion in the Leinster section ( even geographically it is closer for Antrim as well) that's reality
Also the soundings out of Leinster are that they are open to a six team group, its their championship so up to them in many ways and I think it will happen.....there is no appetite for the Munster counties to open it up to six counties and bring Kerry in ( not even Kerry want that)......again that is reality, it has nothing to do with your 'Munster snobbery' chip on your shoulder nonsense just facts
Carlow stay up and Laois are promoted which leaves only four in Mc Donagh cup so that needs sorted as well ( make that six too? don't relegate Offaly and put both down and Meath up which means the winners of Ring each year have at least one winnable game to target to stay up and consolidate).......as big an issue is the u20B competition with two walkovers already and a lopsided draw, this should be kept to the 6/8 counties that really want to play and give them 3 games in round robin with top teams playing in final.....no opportunity to develop lads in a competition where half the games won't even be played......" All that makes absolute sense. The aim should be to get all the developing counties up to the next standard up from where they are at now. Obviously the key to this is to get playing numbers up in those counties. And a successful county team is 1 of the best ways to achieve that. There are loads of young lads with hurls in there hands pucking a ball around the streets of the village I live in which wasnt the case 5 years ago. And obviously from the point of view of senior county player standards it would obviously help the top players in Laois or Carlow for talks sake to be playing more games against Limerick or Wexford or Cork or Tipp or Kilkenny. And furthur down the pyramid wouldnt it be great for hurling in Down or Meath to see highlights of their senior teams on the Sunday Game playing Offaly or Westmeath in the Joe McDonagh? RTE have to be brought on board too- maybe tell them its a condition of their tv rights package for the AI finals that they have to show highlights of the 2nd tier games?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 08/07/2019 11:39:34
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This can be made to be very straightforward:
Allow a 6th team in Munster or Leinster. This should depend on who the McDonagh winners are. Therefore the 6th placed team from the 6 team provincial championship are always relegated and the McDonagh winner are always promoted to their provincial championship.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7842 - 08/07/2019 11:43:14
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Replying To Viking66: "All that makes absolute sense. The aim should be to get all the developing counties up to the next standard up from where they are at now. Obviously the key to this is to get playing numbers up in those counties. And a successful county team is 1 of the best ways to achieve that. There are loads of young lads with hurls in there hands pucking a ball around the streets of the village I live in which wasnt the case 5 years ago. And obviously from the point of view of senior county player standards it would obviously help the top players in Laois or Carlow for talks sake to be playing more games against Limerick or Wexford or Cork or Tipp or Kilkenny. And furthur down the pyramid wouldnt it be great for hurling in Down or Meath to see highlights of their senior teams on the Sunday Game playing Offaly or Westmeath in the Joe McDonagh? RTE have to be brought on board too- maybe tell them its a condition of their tv rights package for the AI finals that they have to show highlights of the 2nd tier games?" Spot on Viking about coverage, in Down we got super coverage from the local papers and irish news ahead of the Ring final...created a massive buzz around the place and TG4 streaming it was great too so imagine the lift we would get from games on the Sunday Game if we got into Mc Donagh cup over next couple of years......
PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 738 - 08/07/2019 12:02:11
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If the McDonagh and Ring can have the same 6 group format. Both finals as a double header in Croke Park on the day before the Leinster Football final should be televised.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7842 - 08/07/2019 12:20:45
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My post makes even more sense now with Laois beating Dublin. I believe a 6th team wouldn't even add an extra week of fixtures to the calendar. It would just mean instead of having a bye for one of the weekends it they would be playing a match instead.
I think the idea is perfect. It will stop the issue of the 5th team yo yoing up and down and will genuinely allow the likes of Laois to improve as they might spend a few seasons in Leinster before a relegation.
Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 08/07/2019 13:08:08
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Joe Quaid has suggested that Leinster should have 8 teams with 2 groups of 4. Possibly worth looking at.
slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 08/07/2019 13:38:53
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Replying To slayer: "Joe Quaid has suggested that Leinster should have 8 teams with 2 groups of 4. Possibly worth looking at." Not sure thats a great idea. The point of expanding it to 6 is to give two so called weaker counties the chance to play the 4 so called stronger 1s and 1 other with the chance of staying up? If you split it into 2 groups of 4 and presumably seed it the weaker counties will only get to play 2 of the stronger 1s?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 08/07/2019 14:49:55
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Replying To Jack_Goff: "My post makes even more sense now with Laois beating Dublin. I believe a 6th team wouldn't even add an extra week of fixtures to the calendar. It would just mean instead of having a bye for one of the weekends it they would be playing a match instead.
I think the idea is perfect. It will stop the issue of the 5th team yo yoing up and down and will genuinely allow the likes of Laois to improve as they might spend a few seasons in Leinster before a relegation." I think it'd be a very good improvement.
6 to Christy Ring also makes sense.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4223 - 08/07/2019 17:07:54
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Replying To legendzxix: "This can be made to be very straightforward:
Allow a 6th team in Munster or Leinster. This should depend on who the McDonagh winners are. Therefore the 6th placed team from the 6 team provincial championship are always relegated and the McDonagh winner are always promoted to their provincial championship." Yer man from Co. Down seems to be extremely knowledgeable about Kerry hurling.
Can you confirm that it is Kerry's wish not to play in the Munster hurling championship?
Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 355 - 08/07/2019 17:22:00
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Replying To PaudieSull1: "EJ there are a couple of things here.....firstly Laois, Westmeath, Offaly, Meath are all in Leinster hence the focus is always going to be on an expansion in the Leinster section ( even geographically it is closer for Antrim as well) that's reality
Also the soundings out of Leinster are that they are open to a six team group, its their championship so up to them in many ways and I think it will happen.....there is no appetite for the Munster counties to open it up to six counties and bring Kerry in ( not even Kerry want that)......again that is reality, it has nothing to do with your 'Munster snobbery' chip on your shoulder nonsense just facts
Carlow stay up and Laois are promoted which leaves only four in Mc Donagh cup so that needs sorted as well ( make that six too? don't relegate Offaly and put both down and Meath up which means the winners of Ring each year have at least one winnable game to target to stay up and consolidate).......as big an issue is the u20B competition with two walkovers already and a lopsided draw, this should be kept to the 6/8 counties that really want to play and give them 3 games in round robin with top teams playing in final.....no opportunity to develop lads in a competition where half the games won't even be played......" Paudie, you obviously have not read too many of my posts in the past.
If you had you will know that I have no chip on either shoulder when it comes hurling and or 'munster snobbery'.
I concede that I think that the development and promotion of the game outside of the 'top tier' could and should be drastically improved and I have stated how in my humble opinion things could be bettered.
I have friends from many counties where the small ball game is and always will be secondary to football and their county will never be a stronghold for hurling. However, their passion for the game is as strong as any.
If you consider my viewpoint to be flawed I have no issue with that at all.
Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 355 - 08/07/2019 18:04:56
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Replying To slayer: "Joe Quaid has suggested that Leinster should have 8 teams with 2 groups of 4. Possibly worth looking at." why not throw kerry and 2 others into munster?
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 08/07/2019 18:16:36
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Im not against 6 team provinces in principle but the constant tinkering I have a problem with.
We have had 2 great seasons under this new format so can we just give it a bit of time.
Maybe the Joe Mc will turn out to be best for smaller teams and it seems to have done a lot better for Laois so far than all the beatings they got in Leinster over the years
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 08/07/2019 19:28:38
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Replying To Breezy: "Im not against 6 team provinces in principle but the constant tinkering I have a problem with.
We have had 2 great seasons under this new format so can we just give it a bit of time.
Maybe the Joe Mc will turn out to be best for smaller teams and it seems to have done a lot better for Laois so far than all the beatings they got in Leinster over the years" The current format is much better than what was there before.
But in my opinion a 6th team (certainly in Leinster) will improve it even further and i believe the change will happen sooner rather than later.
I can't envisage the Leinster council risking a scenario where Galway and Antrim are playing in the provincial championship and one of Wexford, Dublin or Kilkenny are not.
Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 355 - 08/07/2019 19:53:48
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Replying To Ej: "The current format is much better than what was there before.
But in my opinion a 6th team (certainly in Leinster) will improve it even further and i believe the change will happen sooner rather than later.
I can't envisage the Leinster council risking a scenario where Galway and Antrim are playing in the provincial championship and one of Wexford, Dublin or Kilkenny are not." The 5 + 6 format that some were proposing doent seem like too much of a change in fairness but still not sure if it will change much for smaller teams
I know it will probably never happen but you could some day have a Galway Sligo London Antrim Warwickshire Leinster championship
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 08/07/2019 20:08:30
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Replying To Ej: "Paudie, you obviously have not read too many of my posts in the past.
If you had you will know that I have no chip on either shoulder when it comes hurling and or 'munster snobbery'.
I concede that I think that the development and promotion of the game outside of the 'top tier' could and should be drastically improved and I have stated how in my humble opinion things could be bettered.
I have friends from many counties where the small ball game is and always will be secondary to football and their county will never be a stronghold for hurling. However, their passion for the game is as strong as any.
If you consider my viewpoint to be flawed I have no issue with that at all." EJ my point back to you was around you saying why Leinster not Munster for a group of six, it has nothing to do with Munster snobbery like some posters here seem to think pervades the game but rather the geographical reality that most of the teams on the cusp of the next tier are Leinster so that's why I think it should be six team Leinster
I think two groups of six is too much yet to be honest as is an eight team Leinster.....six team Leinster gives the team coming up a chance to stay up and consolidate if good enough, same as six team Mc Donagh otherwise you end up with 2/3 counties constantly yo-yoing between the tiers.....
PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 738 - 08/07/2019 21:23:50
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Replying To PaudieSull1: "EJ my point back to you was around you saying why Leinster not Munster for a group of six, it has nothing to do with Munster snobbery like some posters here seem to think pervades the game but rather the geographical reality that most of the teams on the cusp of the next tier are Leinster so that's why I think it should be six team Leinster
I think two groups of six is too much yet to be honest as is an eight team Leinster.....six team Leinster gives the team coming up a chance to stay up and consolidate if good enough, same as six team Mc Donagh otherwise you end up with 2/3 counties constantly yo-yoing between the tiers....." Could also consider 2x3 team groups in Leinster. Round-robin. Top from each play Leinster final. 2nds play off with loser to prelim QF vs McDonagh winner/runner-up. Bottom teams play-off for relegation decider. All teams get 3 games but rest periods/time for clubs as well.
When Kerry qualify from McDonagh could then have 2x3 in Munster - a while away from that yet tho.
Observer23 (UK) - Posts: 17 - 08/07/2019 21:43:27
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so are you robbing another couple of weeks from the club players for this?
as skillet says,it has worked perfectly and been a great success.
the big question will be if laois stay up next year and one of the other counties are relegated will they just take their medicine like they should?
the unfairness of the system simply cannot be ignored in my view.i dont know how to square the circle but carlow being relegated is ok but waterford having won no game,cant be relegated,is complete crap
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 08/07/2019 21:59:09
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Replying To perfect10: "so are you robbing another couple of weeks from the club players for this?
as skillet says,it has worked perfectly and been a great success.
the big question will be if laois stay up next year and one of the other counties are relegated will they just take their medicine like they should?
the unfairness of the system simply cannot be ignored in my view.i dont know how to square the circle but carlow being relegated is ok but waterford having won no game,cant be relegated,is complete crap" I agree that its unfair that one side has a playoff and the other doesnt. Waterford are not immune to relegation
Waterford were not in a relegation battle this year because Kerry didnt win JoeMc some people seem to forget that.
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 08/07/2019 22:13:28
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There are now too many tiers in hurling
valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1890 - 08/07/2019 22:17:19
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