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TrueBlue35 (Dublin) - Posts: 145 - 11/06/2019 22:40:17 2193739Link 0 0
Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2784 - 11/06/2019 23:04:48 2193745Link 1 0
I agree hopefully he will enjoy his day out leinster final...and learn one or two things that will help him going forward
WhyTheLongFace (Meath) - Posts: 822 - 12/06/2019 00:24:59 2193765Link 2 0
2017 Meath beat Galway by 2 points.
2017 Meath lose to Donegal by 1 point. Game level at 70 mins.
2018 Meath draw with Roscommon in Roscommon. Roscommon get the draw with peno in 4th min of injury time
2018 Meath lose to Tyrone by a point. Tyrone get out of jail with equaliser point in 5th min of injury time with last kick of the game to send the game into extra time. Tyrone win the game in contervesial circumstances in extra time by a point
2019 Meath lose by 2 points to Donegal. Meath lead all the way to 63rd min. Winning by 4 points at 63rd min. Unlucky goal conceded by Meath Donegal win by 2
2019 Meath lose to Donegal by 2 points after ahead by 5 at half time. Donegal only take the lead in 65th min.
So yes Meath did lose most of the games but every single game v top team and we r talking 6 games Meath went toe to toe with All Ireland finalist , Ulster and Connacht champions. The 4th best team in the country eg Tyrone , the 5th best team in the country eg Donegal 6th best team in the country eg Galway and 8th best team in country eg Roscommon. Meath havent played Dublin Mayo or kerry. But the rest of the top 8 Meath went toe to toe for 70 mins and were either 1 point ahead or level going into injury time v these teams. Meath lacked the experience and especially div 1 experience to get over the line. And that is an issue. But they were more then competitive. U could say Meath were unlucky not to beat Tyrone last year and Donegal in Ballybofey this year.
Surely in any ones book Meaths performances v Tyrone Donegal 3 times Galway and Roscommon are a positive for Meath and a very good sign for Meath. Most people expected Tyrone Donegal Galway and Roscommon not just to beat but to beat Meath comprehensivly. Yet Meath were in position to get a result in every single one of those games. If u just mention the laois and Offaly games and dont mention Meaths performances v Tyrone Donegal 3 times Galway and Roscommon then u are not looking at the full picture. And ur anaylsis is incomplete and based on insufficient evidence.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 833 - 12/06/2019 01:36:01 2193777Link 2 1
I apologise wholeheartedly to great Kildare men like Kildare kelly and St Conleths for the below. Not tryng to rub it in. Im just tryinh to explain why I think Meath will put it up to Dublin. I have to use kildare comparsion. No disrespect guys .
Meath and Dublin is an evenly matched rivalry. Its unequal rivalry in terms of resources. But its even v results . The only true evenly matched rivals in football are Galway and Mayo and Meath and Dublin. Cork and kerry is a great event but kerry nearly always win. Only in the late 80s early 90s were Cork sucessful v kerry.
Dublin v Meath is an even rivalry and only very recently has it become a really one sided rivalry.
Just s few stats to back up this.
Between 1930 and 2010 Dublin won 9 All Irelands and Meath won 7 All Irelands.
In the 1930s Dublin won 0 All Irelands . In the 1930s Meath won zero All Irelands
In the 1940s Dublin won 1 All Ireland Meath won 1 All Ireland
In the 1950s Dublin won 1 All Ireland Meath won 1 All Ireland
In the 1960s Dublin won 1 All Ireland Meath won 1 All Ireland.
In the 1970s Dublin won 3 All Irelands Meath won 0 All Irelands
In the 1980s Dublin won 1 All Ireland Meath won 2 All Irelands
In the 1990s Dublin won 1 All Ireland Meath won 2 All Irelands
In the 00s Dublin won 0 All Irelands Meath won 0 All Irelands.
Modern Meath v Dublin rivalry begins in 1983 with Heffernans Dublin v Boylans Meath.
In the last 35 years there has 14 Meath v Dublin leinster finals
Dublin have won 7 Meath v Dublin leinster finals and Meath have 7 Meath v Dublin l leinster finals
In the last 35 years there has been 28 Meath v Dublin championship matchs. There has been 5 draws and 12 victories for Dublin and 11 victories for Meath
Meath v Dublin has been very competitive until recently.
Meath v Dublin in 1940s 50s and 60s Meath were the dominant team but it was very a competitive rivalry
In the 1970s Dublin were the dominant team but it was very competitive rivalry
In the 1980s and 1990s Meath were the dominant team but it was s very competitive rivaket
In the 00s Dublin were a bit more sucessful but it was a very competitive rivaley
In the early part of the decade Dublin were more sucessful but it was still a competitive rivaly.
Its only in the last 4 or 5 years in the last 2 matchs the rivalry has become very one sided and very uncompetitive.
Lets look at how tight the rivaley was
All the winning Margins of every Meath v Dublin championship game since 1983
1983 A draw In the replay Dublin win by 3 points
1984 Dublin won by 4 points
1986 Meath won by 2 points
1987 Meath won by 4 points
1988 Meath won 2 points
1989 Dublin won by 5 points
1990 Meath won by 3 points
1991 3 Draws, the 3rd replay Meath win by 1 point
1993 Dublin won by 1 point
1994 Dublin won by 1 point
1995 Dublin won by 10 points
1996 Meath won by 2 points
1997 Meath won by 3 points
1999 Meath won by 5 points
2001 Meath won by 1 point
2002 Dublin won by 7 points
2005 Dublin won by 2 points
2007 A draw in the replay Dublin won by 4 points
2009 Dublin won by 2 points
2010 Meath won by 11 points
2012 Dublin won by 3 points
2013 Dublin won by 7 points
So as u can see the margin of victories up to bad defeats in 2014 and 2016 were very small. If u take out the hammering in 1995 by Dublin and hammered in 2010 by Meath which were freakish results in Meath v Dublin rivalry the average margin of victory in a Meath v Dublin leinster championship matchs for 35 years and 24 games was 3 points.
So in 30 years and 24 championship games between Meath and Dublin the average winning margin by either was 3 points. Now that has to be one of the closest rivalries in Irish sport.
Its only in 2014 with 16 point win and 10 point in 2016 that the rivalry is uncompetitive and one sided and Dublin are hammering Meath. So it very recent and it only in last two games.
Kildare in comparison would have much poorer record. Dublin have had kildare in mental vice grip for generations. With exception of late 90s and early 70s the kildare v Dublin rivalry has been non existant and very one sided and uncompetitive. And this decade the rivalry has been even less competitive. Meath has deteroated v Dublin in last 2 games , But Meath dont have the decades of heavy loses to Dublin and even in this decade the loses Meath have had v Dublin have worsened but not way on the level of kildare loses to Dublin.
Meath v Dublin since 2005 Dublin began their dominance in leinster. Winning margin in every Meath v Dublin league or championship match since 2005.
2005 Dublin won by 2 points
2007 A draw Dublin win replay by 4 points
2008 Dublin win by 1 point
2008 Dublin won by 2 points
2010 Meath win by 11 points
2012 Dublin win by 3 points
2013 Dublin won by 7 points
2014 Dublin won by 16 points
2016 Dublin won by 10 points.
The average losing margin Meath have had v Dublin since 2005 sis 5 points.
The average losing margin kildare have had v Dublin since 2005 has been 11 points
Dublin v kildare winning margins in all league and championship games since 2005
2009 Dublin win by 3 points
2011 Dublin win by 1 point
2013 Dublin win by 15 points
2013 Dublin won by 11 points
2014 Dublin won by 10 points
2015 Dublin win by 19 points
2017 Dublin win by 9 points
2018 Dublin won by 7 points
2019 Dublin win by 15 points
Since 2010 Kildare have had 6 bad hammering from Dublin. Since 2010 Meath have had 2 bad hammerings. Since 2010 Kildare have had 4 defeats by Dublin over 10 point mark. Since 2010 Meath have had 1 defeat by Dublin over the ten point mark.
My point is here kildare have decades of bad loses to Dublin and in this decade kildare have had record hammerings pretty game after game. Meath have had decades of sucess v Dublin and only in the last 2 games have Dublin been hammering Meath.
So when u say Kildare dont beat Dublin Meath wouldnt , that makes no sense in that Meath dont have the mental.baggage kildare have traditionally and currently v Dublin. Maybe Dublin will hammer Meath for third time sunday week. But the Meath v Dublin rivalry turing very uncompetitve and very one sided and Dublin dishing out hammering to Meath is very recent and just happened in last 2 games. And if you look at Meaths record v Dublin in this decade it is one of best in the country
There has been 2 c competive games and massive Meath victory .Meath along with Cork Mayo and Donegal are the only teams to beat Dublin in the championship in this decade.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 833 - 12/06/2019 04:36:42 2193779Link 2 0
But but again I dont mean to be disrespectful to kildare lads here and will probably come across as arrogant Meath man. But I think reality is Meath have moved ahead of kildare in the last 12 months and while in 2017 and 2018 kildare were second best team in leinster and Dublin's main challenger in the provience. All the evidence suggests Meath are now second best team in leinster and Dublins main challenger. Kildare have regressed and their clearly issues in the team and allot of disquiet with the management. More then likely kildare will have a new manager next year. And I personally believe under a Glen Ryan manager and Davy Burke as his assistant that management team and the talent kildare have kildare the ability and potential to not just win leinster once but twice and push for Sam Maguire in the next 5 or 6 years. Kildare and Meath have got their act togther at underage they are organised finance and coaching numbers have increased massively. Meath and kildare mark my words will have a much stronger decade in this decade.
Anyway as I said kildare have regressed and there is clearly disquiet in the camp. Meath have improved dramatically in the last year and all the news from the Meath camp are the players are delighted with McEntee/ Nally management team. Meath are in a much better place in 2019 then kildare. Meath are stronger then kildare in 2019. The same way kildare were stronger then Meath in 2017 and 2018.
Meath were promoted to div 1 this year. Kildare were not promoted to div 1 this year. Kildare failed to beat Fermanagh and Armagh in the league. Meath comprehensivly beat Fermanagh and Armagh in the league. Kildare lost to Donegal by 15 points in the league. Meath lost by 2 points in 2 games in the league v Donegal and were very unlucky to win one of the games and were very competitive in the next game. Meath played kildare in the league and defeated Kildare . And while it was 1 point win the fact is Meath completely dominated the second half and if Meath won by 8 or 9 points it would have being the correct score. While the Meath camp are very united happy camp Meath manager will probably be given another 3 year contract at the end of the league , kildare manager will probaly lose his job.
So Meath have got promoted kildare havent , Meath defeated kildare in an impressive manner , Meath went toe to toe with Ulster champions, kildare were hammered by 15 points by Ulster champions, kildare failed to beat Fermanagh and and Armagh Meath beat them comprehensivly. And Meath r United camp kildare the manager has probaly lost the dressing room And yet you seem to think kildare are in a better place to take on Dublin then Meath. I think someone is deluded and it aint me
And throw in Meath long tradition v Dublin. Kildare and Dublin rivalry has been very mute for generations. With exception of 1920s and early 70s and late 90s kildare have always struggled badly v Dubs. Meath have dominated Dublin in 40s 50s 60s 80s and 90s.
kildare have beaten Dublin in 1 leinster final in 91 years.
Meath have beaten Dublin in 7 leinster finals in the last 35 years.
Dublin have beaten Meath in 7 leinster finals in last 35 years.
However I do think the future is bright for kildare and Meath. And Dublin will decline quicker and faster then people think. Let me explain.
Dublin should be winning minors like Kerry to dominate in the future. At underage in leinster at minor and under 20 leinster championship is very competitive. Meath and kildare are more then match for Dublin at underage. kildare hammered Dublin in under 20 leinster final last year. Meath have a very strong under 20 team this year and have beaten Dublin 4 times in 4 previous years at minor level. If this continues for next 5 or 10 years this will effect Dublin at senior. And all the signs are that Meath and kildare will continue to be strong at underage.
For the last 15 years minor and under 20 and under 21 leinster championship has been Dublin play thing. Dublin have won 5 under 21 All Irelands. No other team in leinster won under 21 All Ireland in that period. Kildare had two good under 21 teams in that period but that all. At minor level Dublin werent as strong but they could use the minor grade for development rather then winning trophies. This was easy to do as leinster championship in last 15 years has been the poorest in the country. No team in leinster has won a minor All Ireland outside Dublin in 15 years and only 1 leinster team has reached minor final in last 15 years outside Dublin eg Meath 2012.
Underage was very poor in leinster for 10 to 12 years. There is a seachange at underage now. Meath and kildare are stronger and getting stronger. Wicklow louth have had more finance and coachs and are improving and Offaly and Westmeath have had good teams. If this continues Dublin will see impact at senior. Look at Clare or Galway or limerick All Irelands it was based on underage hurling sucess.
I believe people will be shocked how much Dublin will dip in 2020s. Kerry are coming with a great team. Cork will surely comeback. Mayo will keep pushing for Sam until they win. Galway I have hunch will be very strong in 2020s at underage Galway have got their act togther. Roscommon have a good underage record recently that sud continue. There's an All Ireland in Donegal team. And in Ulster there is young Jimmy McGuiness or a young Mickey Harte or Peter McGrath no one knows or heard of yet who will take over a Derry or an Armagh or an Down . And become another great Ulster like eg Down Derry Donegal 90s , Armagh Tyrone 00s and Donegal in this decade. Wait til u see. Theyr will be another great Ulster in 2020s. Meath and kildare will be much stronger in 2020s. Can Dublin like kerry stay at the top. Yes Dublin have gone up a level.
In the past we saw great Dublin teams every 40 or 50 years. In 20s 70s and this decade. Kerry produced Great team in every second decade eg 1950s 1970s 1980s and 00s and soon in 2020s. Dublin will have great teams similar in 2030s and 2050s 2070s. But kerry have dipped after great teams. Dublin will dip. The 2020s should be a very competitive era. Anytime we have had a team dominating an era and we have uncompetitive era, the next decade is a very competitive era. We have two examples.
Between 1974 and 1986 in 12 years Dublin and kerry won 11 of the 12 All Irelands. There was only two All Ireland contenders in the late 70s and early 80s.
In the following 12 years we had 8 different All Ireland winners in 12 years. In 1984 or 1985 you had two All Ireland contenders eg Dublin or kerry. Ten years later u had 8 or 9 contenders for Sam in 1 year eg Meath Dublin kildare Mayo Galway Cork Kerry Mayo Derry Down Donegal Armagh Tyrone.
In hurling we had the same thrend. We had two All Ireland contenders late 00s. Ten years later in hurling u have 6 or 7 All Ireland contenders. In ln 00s kilkenny dominated hurling similar to a Dublin now. If u said in ten years time in 2009 that in the next decade Clare and Galway and limerick would win liam mcarthy no one wud have believed u. The same way in football in 1986 when kerry had won their 8th All Ireland in 12 years, if u said that Donegal Derry Meath Cork Down Galway would all.win All Irelands in the next 12 years u would have been laughed at.
When have an era which one team dominates and is uncompetitive eg kerry in 70s and 80s , Kilkenny in 00s and Dublin in this decade. The next decade is very competitive era where there is multiple All Ireland winners.
What happens. Teams up their game in response to one team domiting especially the main rival. Kerry had their greatest team between 1974 to 1986. Cork had their greatest team right after from 1987 to 1993. Its no coincidence. Dublin had their greatest team before this decade between 1974 to 1985. Meath had their greatest team straight after. 1986 to 1991. Its no coincidence that when kerry hsd there great Cork were forced to up their game and they produced a great team in reaction to kerrys sucess. Its no coincidence when Dublin had their great team Meath were forced to up their game and they produced a great team in reaction to Dublin. Rivals push each other to sucess.
Already we have seen counties responding to Dublin sucess. Kerry 5 minor All Irelands are an response are caused by Dublins sucess. Kerry response to Dublins sucess and is placing serious work into minor level. Kerry upped their game in response to Dublin sucess. Meath winning minor leinster title last yeat and two in a row at that new level and kildare All Ireland under 20 win are direct response to Dubljns sucess. In hurling Limerick Clare and Galqay had huge underage sucess. Again they upped their game in terms of preparation and this was a response to kilkenny sucess.
The thrend is Dublin should dip in the 2020s like kerry did in 90s and kilkenny did in this decade. And we should see a football championship similar to 90s or 00s. U can definitely at underage see that something is stirring. I cud be wrong maybe Dublin will win the next 10 All-Irelands. But the evidence is when one team dominates a decade the following decade is a much more competitive era. Time will tell. But I think Dublin will decline and have much less sucess in 2020s people. They wouldnt go back to 1996 to 2010 they have gone up a level. But Dublin winning a pile of All Irelands in 2020s is not as certain as people thinks. They will be strong at the start of the decade but when the greats like Cluxton retire from 2023 2024 onwards Dublin will decline like kilkenny have done. Dont be surprised that Dublin dont win Sam better 2024 and 2030. I think u will see a very competitive era at the end of the 2020s.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 833 - 12/06/2019 04:49:33 2193780Link 2 2
southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 650 - 12/06/2019 07:38:46 2193785Link 2 0
southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 650 - 12/06/2019 07:44:53 2193786Link 3 2
up and 1 competitive game in Croker. A team nearly a decade together v a team 12 months together. Possibly the greatest team of all.time versus the 8th or 9th best team in the country. Thats been realistic. And u r been realistic. Being realistic two years ago I said we wud win leinster title in 2021 2022. Two years on this forum I said we wud improve this year and make impact in 2020 2021 2022. We seem to be on schedule.
I respect ur honesty and in many ways true anaylsis. But it for me everytime we play Dublin I always feel we can beat them. Its not rational. Its thinking with ur heart not ur head. It pure passion and emotion. For the next two weeks I will get more exicited and I cannot wait for the match. And I know thw evidence is very strong I know the gap between the teams but when the ball is thrown I will still believe we can beat them. It doeant make sense . But it does I at was four games in 91. Every game we should have beaten . It was a mircale we drew the 3 games and its a mircale we won the last game with extraordinary Kevin Foley goal and Beggy. I know those 4 games have no relevance to Sundays game. But I am not thinking with my head it just all heart. Since 1991 it doesnt matter if Dublin win every All Ireland til 2030. If we meet them in 2031 leinster final after they have won 15 in a row. I will still believe we can beat them. Is it leinster final fever or delusional behaviour. Who knows. All I know theres no harm in believing in the same way there is no harm in u being honest.
Meath are getting stronger and Meath will suceed. I have little evidence just feeling in my water more then anything we will put it up to Dublin on 23rd and if we do u just never know . Anyway we all want the best for Meath football. lf we lose, we lose. The Good old Meath ship stil keeps sailing in to the future. One day we will beat the Dubs. Im just believing we will do it Sunday week. I cannot give any concrete evidence other as I said I always believe 15 meath can always beat 15 Dublin. As I said I respect ur comments because u r being honest and realistic. But I still believe in the spirit of 1991. And if u turn 91 around it is 19. Surely a sign we will win. There u r I have evidence we will now. Its enough me. Meath v Dublin leinster finals are everything wouldn't be great if final on the 23rd was like leinster final from 70s or 80s or 90s or 00s. We can only dream. But sometimes not all the time sometimes dream come true. Fingers crossed. An Mhi Abu.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 833 - 12/06/2019 10:35:34 2193838Link 1 1
DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 649 - 12/06/2019 10:43:36 2193841Link 0 0
clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9863 - 12/06/2019 11:25:07 2193862Link 2 1
Maybe a point for another thread but a problem for Meath, Kildare, and to a lesser extent the likes of Laois is that their populations are growing, but they are commuter Dubs who don't put down roots in their new communities. Their children support Dublin mostly.
BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 514 - 12/06/2019 11:41:34 2193870Link 1 0
20 % of people in Cork are not from Cork.
18% of people who live in Donegal are not from Donegal
71% of people who live in Meath are not from Meath.
Thats from the latest census. Anyone who says Meath and kildare and laois sud be doing better with population boom are not looking properly at the situation. When people bring up population one word says it all Wicklow, big population close to Dublin, great clubs, great gaa people. Yet after kilkenny footballers probaly the least sucessful inter county team. Along with Fermanagh Wicklow are the only counties to never win provicial title..And Wicklow had it first win in the championship in Croker 10 years ago. Wicklow should be on 3 or 4 All Irelands and 10 or 12 leinster titles for it size. But population guratees nothing.
Look at Antrim I know half population dont have interest in gaa but no Ulster titles since 1940s. Look at limerick no Munster football title or victory over kerry in football since the 1890s. Only two hurling All Ireland titles in nearly 80 years. 1 All Ireland hurling victory every 40 years. Population gurantees nothing. There has been population explosion in Meath kildare and loais in this decade. Yet this is Meaths worst decade since the 1920s , its kildares worst decade along with 1980s since the 1920s also and it laois worst decade since 1970s.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 833 - 12/06/2019 11:59:17 2193877Link 1 0
TrueBlue35 (Dublin) - Posts: 145 - 12/06/2019 12:00:52 2193879Link 0 0
clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9863 - 12/06/2019 12:05:14 2193881Link 1 0
dickie10 (UK) - Posts: 464 - 12/06/2019 12:12:41 2193882Link 1 0
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2034 - 12/06/2019 12:12:47 2193883Link 1 0
clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9863 - 12/06/2019 12:36:36 2193892Link 3 0
In reply to the posters who replied to me...
BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 514 - 12/06/2019 12:44:23 2193898Link 0 0
But I always find it difficult to come to terms with the idea of already being beaten before you take to the pitch. Nevermind the supporters, you'll get hundreds of different opinions among supporters but the squad themselves, surely they must believe they can and will win, otherwise what's the point.
If a team truly believes that they've been beaten before a ball is thrown up then why put in heavy tackles or a lung bursting effort, surely they should take it easy and save themselves for the next day. Why risk injury or suspension for a 100% guaranteed loss, it doesn't make sense to me.
Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8215 - 12/06/2019 12:56:53 2193904Link 1 0