National Forum

Hurling: Carlow -32 And Waterford -39

(Oldest Posts First)


Carlow's loss margin has been less than Waterford after 3 games played each.

It's important that McDonagh Cup teams can close the gap that has existed between the top 9 and the next group.

Will we see a day when a McDonagh Cup team can lower a provincial team's colours in a preliminary quarter-final? It'll take such a result to put the McDonagh Cup firmly on the map.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7806 - 03/06/2019 21:53:40    2190339

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Carlow's loss margin has been less than Waterford after 3 games played each.

It's important that McDonagh Cup teams can close the gap that has existed between the top 9 and the next group.

Will we see a day when a McDonagh Cup team can lower a provincial team's colours in a preliminary quarter-final? It'll take such a result to put the McDonagh Cup firmly on the map."
If Carlow was in Munster their margin would be a lot worse and if Waterford was in Leinster they could well have gotten in top 3.

blackspot91 (Limerick) - Posts: 1055 - 04/06/2019 09:24:23    2190392

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Replying To blackspot91:  "If Carlow was in Munster their margin would be a lot worse and if Waterford was in Leinster they could well have gotten in top 3."
I haven't posted here in a very long time so with respect, If Carlow was in Munster they would have learned their trade well from constantly playing at the top level and who knows where that might have taken them.?
If Waterford was in Leinster they would be caught up in the same scenario, possibly facing the same problems that Carlow are facing today.

Continued success to Limerick and to Waterford

Scallioneater (Carlow) - Posts: 293 - 04/06/2019 11:06:14    2190433

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Carlow's loss margin has been less than Waterford after 3 games played each.

It's important that McDonagh Cup teams can close the gap that has existed between the top 9 and the next group.

Will we see a day when a McDonagh Cup team can lower a provincial team's colours in a preliminary quarter-final? It'll take such a result to put the McDonagh Cup firmly on the map."
It would be great to see Carlow come up to the level of the top 9 counties but it's going to be very hard because there just enough hurling played in the county. Comparisons of Waterford and Carlow based on this stat are off the wall. Waterford were in the League final. If Carlow made the League Final it would be the story of the decade, possibly the greatest ever GAA story! Waterford are having a terrible year, there is loads of good young hurlers coming from Waterford, they'll bounce back.

I'd love to see Carlow compete with the top teams. Clubs wise Antrim and Westmeath are probably better placed to make the step up. Wouldn't it be great to see a huge investment made in the McDonagh Cup teams (and Carlow). I mean proper money, something like what was done in Dublin. Give them full time coaches and every support, money to rent halls to have kids hurling in the winter, really drive the game at underage ..

That gap hasn't been closed in the GAA's history, would such a plan work, who knows? Mad that it hasn't been tried though.

tomhealycork (Cork) - Posts: 80 - 04/06/2019 11:19:26    2190438

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^if Carlow was in Munster they'd never have to fear relegation. This system is a huge insult to Kerry hurling. Get rid of the league, replace with provincial championships. Open draw then. I love the Munster Championship but I love Hurling more.

Buachaillbui (Clare) - Posts: 117 - 04/06/2019 11:24:35    2190444

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Replying To tomhealycork:  "It would be great to see Carlow come up to the level of the top 9 counties but it's going to be very hard because there just enough hurling played in the county. Comparisons of Waterford and Carlow based on this stat are off the wall. Waterford were in the League final. If Carlow made the League Final it would be the story of the decade, possibly the greatest ever GAA story! Waterford are having a terrible year, there is loads of good young hurlers coming from Waterford, they'll bounce back.

I'd love to see Carlow compete with the top teams. Clubs wise Antrim and Westmeath are probably better placed to make the step up. Wouldn't it be great to see a huge investment made in the McDonagh Cup teams (and Carlow). I mean proper money, something like what was done in Dublin. Give them full time coaches and every support, money to rent halls to have kids hurling in the winter, really drive the game at underage ..

That gap hasn't been closed in the GAA's history, would such a plan work, who knows? Mad that it hasn't been tried though."
Agree 100%. The GAA needs to get more kids into hurling in the Joe Mcdonagh counties (and Ring and Meagher counties too) and hopefully there would then be more dual clubs in these counties. Then there would be a greater number of adult players in time then hopefully the senior county teams would be better too! This would take money for coaches but surely worth it in the longrun. Facilities needed apart from hurleys sliothars and helmets ought to be the same as for football.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11693 - 04/06/2019 15:28:08    2190541

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Carlow -47
Waterford -52

It has highlighted the flaw in the provincial format. Is it enough to suggest two even groups of 5 in the All-Ireland Hurling Championship?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7806 - 09/06/2019 21:47:50    2192441

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Should just have a relegation play-off to put everyone at their ease, and the worst team will definitely be relagated then.. And no excuses or complaints

preddan (Kildare) - Posts: 733 - 09/06/2019 22:38:44    2192482

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There is a lot of bull**** talk about Waterford's scoring difference compared to Carlow. Waterford are entitled to play in the Munster championship the same as Kerry should be as long as we have a provincial system and don't talk about Galway. If we were to follow what people are calling for Tipp should be relegated last year as in reality they finished last. How do you think that would have gone? Never going to happen.
It is great that Carlow are getting better but how about some reality. Waterford beat most of the teams in 1B by big scores included Carlow and the gulf between them is still huge. If they were to do a play off game that would still be the same.
We were terrible this year but too many willing to dance on our graves and what is expected to be achieved by relegating us from the McCarthy cup. Using a scoring difference as a gauge between two different provinces with different teams involved is a joke. If we want a separate McCarthy cup competition go for it and see who gets relegated.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2653 - 09/06/2019 23:15:57    2192514

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In 2018, Carlow had 10 hurling clubs fielding 18 teams in total throughout the county. They have done amazingly well to get this far. Wicklow with 20 teams has more hurling. As TomHealy said Antrim, Westmeath have more clubs. Laois/Offaly have way more teams. Carlow are probably at a peak now without more investment at grassroots. Waterford on the other hand has about 45 clubs. They are at a fairly low point but have the talent to rebound quickly enough.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 10/06/2019 08:22:20    2192574

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Replying To Buachaillbui:  "^if Carlow was in Munster they'd never have to fear relegation. This system is a huge insult to Kerry hurling. Get rid of the league, replace with provincial championships. Open draw then. I love the Munster Championship but I love Hurling more."
Great comment from someone who sounds like a true "hurling man" & one w/more than a little common sense

Gowran_Yank (Kilkenny) - Posts: 96 - 10/06/2019 15:00:41    2192957

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Replying To tomhealycork:  "It would be great to see Carlow come up to the level of the top 9 counties but it's going to be very hard because there just enough hurling played in the county. Comparisons of Waterford and Carlow based on this stat are off the wall. Waterford were in the League final. If Carlow made the League Final it would be the story of the decade, possibly the greatest ever GAA story! Waterford are having a terrible year, there is loads of good young hurlers coming from Waterford, they'll bounce back.

I'd love to see Carlow compete with the top teams. Clubs wise Antrim and Westmeath are probably better placed to make the step up. Wouldn't it be great to see a huge investment made in the McDonagh Cup teams (and Carlow). I mean proper money, something like what was done in Dublin. Give them full time coaches and every support, money to rent halls to have kids hurling in the winter, really drive the game at underage ..

That gap hasn't been closed in the GAA's history, would such a plan work, who knows? Mad that it hasn't been tried though."
Offalys golden years were helped alot by them being the best placed side to avail of a GAA initiative in the 1970s to boost hurling outside of the top counties.

So money and a bit of forward thinking can go a long way for the likes of Carlow/Westmeath/Laois who have already put in good work and have decent sides

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 10/06/2019 15:18:31    2192978

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Replying To Gowran_Yank:  "Great comment from someone who sounds like a true "hurling man" & one w/more than a little common sense"
Would have to endorse both comments. After over 100 years we have been only been chicken scratching at the surface to bring the standards up in every county of greatest game in the world.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2653 - 10/06/2019 17:50:16    2193095

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Carlow's loss margin has been less than Waterford after 3 games played each.

It's important that McDonagh Cup teams can close the gap that has existed between the top 9 and the next group.

Will we see a day when a McDonagh Cup team can lower a provincial team's colours in a preliminary quarter-final? It'll take such a result to put the McDonagh Cup firmly on the map."
The problem is easily rectified there should be a play-off for Carlow then their can be no complaints. So how do they decide that Carlow get the drop but not Waterford?

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4893 - 10/06/2019 19:05:13    2193141

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Replying To Buachaillbui:  "^if Carlow was in Munster they'd never have to fear relegation. This system is a huge insult to Kerry hurling. Get rid of the league, replace with provincial championships. Open draw then. I love the Munster Championship but I love Hurling more."
The Hurling League has been revamped to allow players play in a development manner.

The solution in hurling and football is to run the provincial championships in January.

Run the leagues in February and March.

After a club month, the All-Ireland Championships can run as tiered group championships.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7806 - 10/06/2019 19:37:07    2193149

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Replying To arock:  "The problem is easily rectified there should be a play-off for Carlow then their can be no complaints. So how do they decide that Carlow get the drop but not Waterford?"
Why should Waterford play off again a Leinster team to decide if they stay in the Munster championship or Carlow have to play off again Waterford to stay in the Leinster championship. As long as the McCarthy cup is tied to the provincial championships that is the way. It is disgraceful how Kerry are treated in Munster.No disrespect to Carlow even with their improvement Waterford would beat them out the gate and back in again. They did already this year. That is the reality. Until proper resources are applied to Laois, Carlow, Antrim, Kerry, Offaly , Westmeath the gap between the elites and the next group will not change. Is it money, coaching, competition structure, lack of interest by the youth etc. ? With no disrespect to other counties that play hurling can you imagine if these counties were contenders each year what a sport we would have.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2653 - 10/06/2019 20:30:15    2193182

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Replying To Canuck:  "There is a lot of bull**** talk about Waterford's scoring difference compared to Carlow. Waterford are entitled to play in the Munster championship the same as Kerry should be as long as we have a provincial system and don't talk about Galway. If we were to follow what people are calling for Tipp should be relegated last year as in reality they finished last. How do you think that would have gone? Never going to happen.
It is great that Carlow are getting better but how about some reality. Waterford beat most of the teams in 1B by big scores included Carlow and the gulf between them is still huge. If they were to do a play off game that would still be the same.
We were terrible this year but too many willing to dance on our graves and what is expected to be achieved by relegating us from the McCarthy cup. Using a scoring difference as a gauge between two different provinces with different teams involved is a joke. If we want a separate McCarthy cup competition go for it and see who gets relegated."
Tipp didn't finish last we had 2 points to Waterford 1 plus a scoring difference of -8 compared to -25 of Waterford.
Limerick and Clare caught us in the final minutes and only for Nash we wud have beaten Cork coming from ten points down.
Played for 35 minutes with 14 men against Waterford yes we didn't deserve anything from that game but you can't change results.
Tipp really knuckled down this year we used the league well not one Tipp player played in the same position 2 games in a row. We were beaten in injury time against Wexford and Kilkenny and still had enough to make the knock out stages.
Waterford need to RE group for 2020 use the league to find players try different tactics and more importantly find a position for Austin Gleeson. If his on song Waterford are tough to beat.
Munster hurling needs Waterford and Leinster hurling really needs the likes of Carlow remaining for as long as possible in top tier.

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 10/06/2019 23:55:04    2193283

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Replying To WildPundit:  "Tipp didn't finish last we had 2 points to Waterford 1 plus a scoring difference of -8 compared to -25 of Waterford.
Limerick and Clare caught us in the final minutes and only for Nash we wud have beaten Cork coming from ten points down.
Played for 35 minutes with 14 men against Waterford yes we didn't deserve anything from that game but you can't change results.
Tipp really knuckled down this year we used the league well not one Tipp player played in the same position 2 games in a row. We were beaten in injury time against Wexford and Kilkenny and still had enough to make the knock out stages.
Waterford need to RE group for 2020 use the league to find players try different tactics and more importantly find a position for Austin Gleeson. If his on song Waterford are tough to beat.
Munster hurling needs Waterford and Leinster hurling really needs the likes of Carlow remaining for as long as possible in top tier."
Yes you were the last team because Waterford were cheated out of a win against you. I was only using it as an example of what could have happened if there was relegation in place. The rule would change straight away if Tipp or Cork were to be relegated. That is how the power works in the GAA to favour the elites.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2653 - 11/06/2019 14:01:57    2193502

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A 6th team in one province will solve the problem. Carlow, Laois, Westmeath and Antrim should bring such a motion to congress. The McDonagh Cup can also be expanded to 6. There are solutions if counties push for motions to bring them about.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7806 - 11/06/2019 15:07:23    2193526

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Replying To Canuck:  "Yes you were the last team because Waterford were cheated out of a win against you. I was only using it as an example of what could have happened if there was relegation in place. The rule would change straight away if Tipp or Cork were to be relegated. That is how the power works in the GAA to favour the elites."
Wasn't our fault ye couldn't finish off 14 tired men!! The goal was only 3 points think ye were up 8 at one stage!!

Plus I don't think your last comment makes any sense nobody bends the rules for Tipp or Cork.

Were Cork not relegated to 1B few years ago in the league if I remember?

Kilkenny were lucky to win 1 or 2 relegation games themselves so I think that comment is a bit OTT.

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 11/06/2019 18:04:42    2193612

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