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"Leinster Venue Decision A Sign Of Falling Football Crowds"

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Replying To The_Fridge:  "He's gone very quiet all of a sudden."
Ha.

The plastic meath fan wha!!

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13433 - 17/05/2019 13:28:37    2184916

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I often think its funny calling an away game in Leinster an away game, sure most places like Navan and Portloaise are an hour side of Dublin and youd probably get to them quicker when driving. There is also a significant amount of Dubs living in those places, while im not sure it will ever really happen that Dublin will be out numbered playing "away". In short the concept of playing away, isnt really playing away when it comes to Dublin, there are very few grounds we are going to go to and not have the powerful presence and likely the majority. Maybe Castlebar, Salthill (interestingly we likely be there this year), or PUC anywhere else you may as well be playing at home really.

You would wonder what the fuss is about really. I like them personally, just for the mix things up and the bit craic really.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 2529 - 17/05/2019 14:07:26    2184935

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I often think its funny calling an away game in Leinster an away game, sure most places like Navan and Portloaise are an hour side of Dublin and youd probably get to them quicker when driving. There is also a significant amount of Dubs living in those places, while im not sure it will ever really happen that Dublin will be out numbered playing "away". In short the concept of playing away, isnt really playing away when it comes to Dublin, there are very few grounds we are going to go to and not have the powerful presence and likely the majority. Maybe Castlebar, Salthill (interestingly we likely be there this year), or PUC anywhere else you may as well be playing at home really.

You would wonder what the fuss is about really. I like them personally, just for the mix things up and the bit craic really."
You must be very much the wrong side of fifty if you can remember Dublin playing an away game in a Leinster champ game.. Fact is its decades since Dublin won an away game in Leinster champ.. No wonder you find them "funny".
Until this Dublin team has the balls to face Kildare, Laois or Meath on a regular basis on our home turf with an allocation of just a few K, their hollow wins will remain a farce and uncredible. But memories fade i suppose, maybe eventually people will forget the absolute farce that it is and ye will be just happy with what the records (and not reality) show..

cuttothebone (Kildare) - Posts: 98 - 17/05/2019 16:04:00    2184982

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Replying To cuttothebone:  "You must be very much the wrong side of fifty if you can remember Dublin playing an away game in a Leinster champ game.. Fact is its decades since Dublin won an away game in Leinster champ.. No wonder you find them "funny".
Until this Dublin team has the balls to face Kildare, Laois or Meath on a regular basis on our home turf with an allocation of just a few K, their hollow wins will remain a farce and uncredible. But memories fade i suppose, maybe eventually people will forget the absolute farce that it is and ye will be just happy with what the records (and not reality) show.."
"You must be very much the wrong side of fifty if you can remember Dublin playing an away game in a Leinster champ game.. Fact is its decades since Dublin won an away game in Leinster champ.. No wonder you find them "funny". Until this Dublin team has the balls to face Kildare, Laois or Meath on a regular basis on our home turf with an allocation of just a few K, their hollow wins will remain a farce and uncredible. But memories fade i suppose, maybe eventually people will forget the absolute farce that it is and ye will be just happy with what the records (and not reality) show.."

Given that the semis and final are always played in Croke Park.......when was the last time Kildare played an "away" match in Leinster?

bubba83 (Dublin) - Posts: 326 - 17/05/2019 16:23:53    2184990

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Replying To cuttothebone:  "You must be very much the wrong side of fifty if you can remember Dublin playing an away game in a Leinster champ game.. Fact is its decades since Dublin won an away game in Leinster champ.. No wonder you find them "funny".
Until this Dublin team has the balls to face Kildare, Laois or Meath on a regular basis on our home turf with an allocation of just a few K, their hollow wins will remain a farce and uncredible. But memories fade i suppose, maybe eventually people will forget the absolute farce that it is and ye will be just happy with what the records (and not reality) show.."
Do you think its fear of facing Laois, Kildare and Meath in PL, Newbridge and Navan that is stopping those games, i mean really and with all logic, i dont personally, really why would Dublin fear any of those counties at present? Its just not logical.

There is a whole narrative around county delegates voting on the Leinster council and Leisnter counties self interest in where Dublin play, but i doubt that will change the chest thumping narrative you express.

I also find it a bit hypocritical to be honest, Laois, Kildare and Meath had and i would suggest still would have no problem playing home games in Croke park when they were successful, whether they be first round leinster games or latter game sin the championship. They were happy enough to abandon their "own turfs" when it suited them.

I mean how fair is it really, that say if Kildare play Kerry in Croke Park, like a few years ago. Why do Kildare get to have their game in Leinster in a county on their doorstep and not Kerry.

I agree with you on the principal point though, i would welcome more Dublin away games, thankfully the league and the S8's are there. I think away Leinster games are a bit of a fudge though, they arent really away games, sure they are only down the road, Dubs always out number and sure half the population is probably from Dublin anyway, Newbridge being a growing example. Not to mention the Leinster Council moving it to some venue that can cope with the volume for H&S.

Ive played in Newbridge more times then i played in Parnell Park for example, its an hour down the road, packed with Dubs, just doesn't feel like an away game to me.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 2529 - 17/05/2019 17:09:00    2185003

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Replying To cuttothebone:  "You must be very much the wrong side of fifty if you can remember Dublin playing an away game in a Leinster champ game.. Fact is its decades since Dublin won an away game in Leinster champ.. No wonder you find them "funny".
Until this Dublin team has the balls to face Kildare, Laois or Meath on a regular basis on our home turf with an allocation of just a few K, their hollow wins will remain a farce and uncredible. But memories fade i suppose, maybe eventually people will forget the absolute farce that it is and ye will be just happy with what the records (and not reality) show.."
Nothing to do with" has the balls" cop on to yourself , Dublin play were they are told to play, as im sure you already know this.

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 1699 - 17/05/2019 17:37:25    2185011

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Replying To arock:  "You said it, we will never know nor do we care! The best thing to say about this thread is to do away with the provincial competitions and then we wouldn't have to put up with this psychotic revisionism."
Nobody asked you to read it. Jog on if its not your cup of tea mate.

The_Biler (Westmeath) - Posts: 84 - 17/05/2019 17:45:46    2185014

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Do you think its fear of facing Laois, Kildare and Meath in PL, Newbridge and Navan that is stopping those games, i mean really and with all logic, i dont personally, really why would Dublin fear any of those counties at present? Its just not logical.

There is a whole narrative around county delegates voting on the Leinster council and Leisnter counties self interest in where Dublin play, but i doubt that will change the chest thumping narrative you express.

I also find it a bit hypocritical to be honest, Laois, Kildare and Meath had and i would suggest still would have no problem playing home games in Croke park when they were successful, whether they be first round leinster games or latter game sin the championship. They were happy enough to abandon their "own turfs" when it suited them.

I mean how fair is it really, that say if Kildare play Kerry in Croke Park, like a few years ago. Why do Kildare get to have their game in Leinster in a county on their doorstep and not Kerry.

I agree with you on the principal point though, i would welcome more Dublin away games, thankfully the league and the S8's are there. I think away Leinster games are a bit of a fudge though, they arent really away games, sure they are only down the road, Dubs always out number and sure half the population is probably from Dublin anyway, Newbridge being a growing example. Not to mention the Leinster Council moving it to some venue that can cope with the volume for H&S.

Ive played in Newbridge more times then i played in Parnell Park for example, its an hour down the road, packed with Dubs, just doesn't feel like an away game to me."
Convenience of travel is only one small part of playing at home. The points you've made are all valid, but seem to neglect the moral high ground and sense of pride you should take onto the field when it's your own field as a huge factor. Similarly, familiarity with the pitch is a factor too. Newbridge is about 10m shorter than Croker in each dimension, for example.

Think about it at club level, playing a home game vs your closest rival will spur you on and benefit you far more than playing a team from across the county at home... or at least at my club it does anyways

Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 124 - 17/05/2019 17:52:16    2185018

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Replying To cuttothebone:  "You must be very much the wrong side of fifty if you can remember Dublin playing an away game in a Leinster champ game.. Fact is its decades since Dublin won an away game in Leinster champ.. No wonder you find them "funny".
Until this Dublin team has the balls to face Kildare, Laois or Meath on a regular basis on our home turf with an allocation of just a few K, their hollow wins will remain a farce and uncredible. But memories fade i suppose, maybe eventually people will forget the absolute farce that it is and ye will be just happy with what the records (and not reality) show.."
I'm 34 and and I can remember 1993 still away to Wexford and I wouldn't call winning away to Longford in 2006 as "decades" ago to be fair either. This Dublin team, like any other team, doesn't get to decide where it plays but wherever they play the wins are always sweet also for the reaction of good chaps like yourself :)

Dubsfan28 (Dublin) - Posts: 2136 - 17/05/2019 20:50:58    2185054

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Do you think its fear of facing Laois, Kildare and Meath in PL, Newbridge and Navan that is stopping those games, i mean really and with all logic, i dont personally, really why would Dublin fear any of those counties at present? Its just not logical.

There is a whole narrative around county delegates voting on the Leinster council and Leisnter counties self interest in where Dublin play, but i doubt that will change the chest thumping narrative you express.

I also find it a bit hypocritical to be honest, Laois, Kildare and Meath had and i would suggest still would have no problem playing home games in Croke park when they were successful, whether they be first round leinster games or latter game sin the championship. They were happy enough to abandon their "own turfs" when it suited them.

I mean how fair is it really, that say if Kildare play Kerry in Croke Park, like a few years ago. Why do Kildare get to have their game in Leinster in a county on their doorstep and not Kerry.

I agree with you on the principal point though, i would welcome more Dublin away games, thankfully the league and the S8's are there. I think away Leinster games are a bit of a fudge though, they arent really away games, sure they are only down the road, Dubs always out number and sure half the population is probably from Dublin anyway, Newbridge being a growing example. Not to mention the Leinster Council moving it to some venue that can cope with the volume for H&S.

Ive played in Newbridge more times then i played in Parnell Park for example, its an hour down the road, packed with Dubs, just doesn't feel like an away game to me."
Be under no illusion, Kildare fans, players and management hate the sight of croke pk and if given the option would never play there.. They were also never "happy" to opt to play their games there, they were told to and hadnt a leg to stand on because of their finances at the time.
Playing Kerry in CP? Advantage Kerry all day long.
Dublin would never out number Kildare fans in Newbridge when done right because to bring integrity back to the comp they would only receive 20/30 % allocation this has to be done otherwise its just farcical..
In that scenario home advantage would swing from a min 4/5 pt advantage to Dublin in CP to min 4/5 pt advantage to Kildare in Newbridge.. 8/9/10 pt turnaround.. (check out scoreline in LF 2017) Now are you telling me top brass dont fear making Dublin vulnerable in that sort of level playing field??
Home advantage is everything in any sport, in GAA i believe its worth 5 points, evidence of this is plain to see in the teams that topped each of the divisions this year, from memory Westmeath are the only team promoted without 4 home games, likewise most teams relegated played just 3 at home.
Do you think Kildare would beat Mayo anywhere else other than Newbridge? And even then they had as much support as us.
So yes, maybe not Dublin GAA but top brass are absolutely terrified of a Leinster champ that anyone other than Dublin has a chance of winning and will always just be a farce until i believe Dublin (they wont listen to anyone else) demand to compete in a real and proper Leinster champ worth winning.

cuttothebone (Kildare) - Posts: 98 - 17/05/2019 21:47:14    2185068

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Replying To Dubsfan28:  "I'm 34 and and I can remember 1993 still away to Wexford and I wouldn't call winning away to Longford in 2006 as "decades" ago to be fair either. This Dublin team, like any other team, doesn't get to decide where it plays but wherever they play the wins are always sweet also for the reaction of good chaps like yourself :)"
Ha Ha.. A real case of the "exceptions proving the rules." Against the big teams too.. Good man.

cuttothebone (Kildare) - Posts: 98 - 17/05/2019 21:57:04    2185072

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Royal Dunne... come out come out wherever you are

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13433 - 17/05/2019 22:20:14    2185076

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Replying To waynoI:  "Royal Dunne... come out come out wherever you are"
At least a response like that shows you have the intellect to know there is no arguing the facts here..
And that's encouraging.

cuttothebone (Kildare) - Posts: 98 - 17/05/2019 23:11:21    2185086

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Replying To cuttothebone:  "Be under no illusion, Kildare fans, players and management hate the sight of croke pk and if given the option would never play there.. They were also never "happy" to opt to play their games there, they were told to and hadnt a leg to stand on because of their finances at the time.
Playing Kerry in CP? Advantage Kerry all day long.
Dublin would never out number Kildare fans in Newbridge when done right because to bring integrity back to the comp they would only receive 20/30 % allocation this has to be done otherwise its just farcical..
In that scenario home advantage would swing from a min 4/5 pt advantage to Dublin in CP to min 4/5 pt advantage to Kildare in Newbridge.. 8/9/10 pt turnaround.. (check out scoreline in LF 2017) Now are you telling me top brass dont fear making Dublin vulnerable in that sort of level playing field??
Home advantage is everything in any sport, in GAA i believe its worth 5 points, evidence of this is plain to see in the teams that topped each of the divisions this year, from memory Westmeath are the only team promoted without 4 home games, likewise most teams relegated played just 3 at home.
Do you think Kildare would beat Mayo anywhere else other than Newbridge? And even then they had as much support as us.
So yes, maybe not Dublin GAA but top brass are absolutely terrified of a Leinster champ that anyone other than Dublin has a chance of winning and will always just be a farce until i believe Dublin (they wont listen to anyone else) demand to compete in a real and proper Leinster champ worth winning."
I'm not sure I agree with much of that a Chara, I happen to friendly with one or two of the Kildare lads and they are proud as punch to play in Croke Park as their family, club mates etc. If I'm being frank I've never asked which they'd prefer, but certainly the lads I'm friendly with really look forward to games at Croke Park. Before you ask, I'm not going to share there names on an online forum, to prove a point I'm not particularly bothered with.

As for the fans, I'm not sure about that either, I mean Kildare have a fantastic support when mobilized, there was a huge crowd in Croke Park for the Leinster final, huge Kildare numbers, I'd be fairly certain the next game in Newbridge wasn't a sell out.

It's sad that you actually have a point, it's pretty disheartening to hear a Leinster man concede the advantage of that to Munster team so passively, but each to their own.

I know the point your making, but I think you overstate the advantage, I think it is an advantage and I would like to play more games outside of Croke Park, but there isn't a ground in the country you could play Dublin vs Kildare and close the gap in quality.

I find your mindset a bit disheartening, you say could Kildare beat Mayo anywhere else then Newbridge, why the hell not? Kildare should be beating and competing with the Mayos of this world, why go meakly into the night and put it down to a delaptaded ground, put it down to your team. Again why can't Kildare compete with Mayos and Kerry's, it's a very deafeatest mindset. Yet you are going to give Dublin a game an our down the road, right so! ;)

As for Dublin being afraid, I doubt it, we will respect every county, but fear no one, I can't remember the last time I went into a game with any fear at all to be honest. Leinster pushing on well over a decade now. I'm looking forward to the Kildare game as it goes, I played club football there for a time, so it's a great day out with pals, that unfortunately doesn't happen often these days.

How did Kildare vote in the Leinster Council around the Dublin Croke Park issue out of curiosity, we sympathize with Kildare, who as you say .like us have been forced into playing their games in Croke Park.

To be honest, after Newbridge or no where thing last year, I think your are trying to make Newbridge something it really isn't. Hopefully the new development may create something.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 2529 - 17/05/2019 23:21:00    2185088

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Replying To Sweetspot:  "Convenience of travel is only one small part of playing at home. The points you've made are all valid, but seem to neglect the moral high ground and sense of pride you should take onto the field when it's your own field as a huge factor. Similarly, familiarity with the pitch is a factor too. Newbridge is about 10m shorter than Croker in each dimension, for example.

Think about it at club level, playing a home game vs your closest rival will spur you on and benefit you far more than playing a team from across the county at home... or at least at my club it does anyways"
That's fair enough mate, if Kildare lads grow up playing wishing to play in Newbridge I'm cool with that, it's a great thing. Still personally speaking playing most games in Leinster just don't feel like away games to me, particularly Newbridge, it's closer to alot of Dubs then say Balbrrigan. These days you'd need signs to tell you it's not in Dublin. I can get to Newbridge quicker the Parnell Park. Depending on traffic probably Port Loaise, if I put the boot down maybe Nowlen Park.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 2529 - 17/05/2019 23:29:38    2185089

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Replying To waynoI:  "Royal Dunne... come out come out wherever you are"
Wha, even if he did tell you where he was, it would probably be beyond you, with your previous geography cock up.

Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 18/05/2019 01:13:53    2185104

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Nowadays Dublin most certainly wouldn't fear playing away in any leinster venue. It's too late for that. But it has two advantages, as they're not on their usually Croker pitch and home comforts the margin of victory will probably be less. But most importantly the Dubs will have the expense of travelling not the other way around. Another benefit is to the local economy instead of dublin getting all the boost.

A good example would be louth. If their 12k seater stadium was already built they could host the Dubs. Easy access with the M1 for all travelling fans be it Louth from ardee and Drogheda or Dubs. The town would see a huge boost and never gets a travelling crowd like that.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2660 - 18/05/2019 13:38:35    2185194

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Replying To superbluedub:  "Nothing to do with" has the balls" cop on to yourself , Dublin play were they are told to play, as im sure you already know this."
I won't dip my toe far into this argument but this point annoys me close to rage. "Dublin play where they are told" I mean for Jesus sake. Of all the teams in the country no one tells Dublin where to play. If the footballers and management wanted to play in Parnell Park that is where they would be playing. So I've no idea where you get the concept "Dublin play where they are told' comes from. It's pure bs.

SamandLiamSoon (Galway) - Posts: 379 - 18/05/2019 14:19:00    2185208

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