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Another Spectacular GAA PR Own Goal

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The GAA are correct here, GAA facilities for GAA activities, soccer facilities for soccer activities. It's a simple rule and I don't understand the difficulty.

Tom1916 (Armagh) - Posts: 2001 - 28/04/2019 14:49:36    2180658

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Replying To browncows:  "There is always two sides to a debate and I have given another side previously . The GAA are correct to protect their interests. Why do soccer pay their players and then are not able to provide playing facilities?-enough said of that. Why is their a need to play soccer in a GAA pitch which already provides playing facilities for football (male and female), hurling, camogie and rounders.
No club has the right to ok a soccer match and expect insurance cover and anyone who knows anything about insurance cover should know that-maybe we should get the GAA to insure all our pitches for soccer play!, and maybe we should then start to pay them to play-is that the sort of logic you aspire to. Now saying plenty of people being involved in both codes is a good reason for giving the pitch makes even less sense. GAA clubs should never make their facilities available to soccer and that is the reason all our clubs are vested in the way the are."
No club has the right to ok a soccer match and expect insurance cover and anyone who knows anything about insurance cover should know that-maybe we should get the GAA to insure all our pitches for soccer play!, and maybe we should then start to pay them to play-is that the sort of logic you aspire to. Now saying plenty of people being involved in both codes is a good reason for giving the pitch makes even less sense.

You're a great man for wrongly assuming what I think. Bad enough that the wife thinks she's a mindreader. I'll wrongly assume that you'd be happier if GAA clubs were solely made up of people only interested in GAA sports without goodwill to any other sports.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7337 - 28/04/2019 15:25:37    2180664

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Replying To Tom1916:  "The GAA are correct here, GAA facilities for GAA activities, soccer facilities for soccer activities. It's a simple rule and I don't understand the difficulty."
It was for charity

PyatPree (Cork) - Posts: 376 - 28/04/2019 15:38:03    2180669

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "No club has the right to ok a soccer match and expect insurance cover and anyone who knows anything about insurance cover should know that-maybe we should get the GAA to insure all our pitches for soccer play!, and maybe we should then start to pay them to play-is that the sort of logic you aspire to. Now saying plenty of people being involved in both codes is a good reason for giving the pitch makes even less sense.

You're a great man for wrongly assuming what I think. Bad enough that the wife thinks she's a mindreader. I'll wrongly assume that you'd be happier if GAA clubs were solely made up of people only interested in GAA sports without goodwill to any other sports."
It dosnt matter what you or your wife thinks or assumes. He's right. No club can decide and OK an event that falls outside of the activity in the gaa insurance policy. These same restrictions apply within the gaa itself. All clubs have insurance via the GAA policy which defines the activities. If a club wishes to do something outside of this they can request if the gaas insurance will quote them the extra premium or seek a separate policy and indemnify the GAA policy. This could be as simple as works in the Clubrooms. I think the policy covers general mantainence but let's say it covers changing a light bulb but it dosnt cover changing the light fitting itself. If someone has an accident changing a light fitting even if the club has sanctioned this. The insurers dont have to pay out and the club itself could be left open to a legal battle which could lead to them having to pay compensation from their own pocket. Not many clubs could afford this and some couldn't survive this. That is why the rule is in place. Nothing to do with other sports.

WheresDeBallBag (Louth) - Posts: 458 - 28/04/2019 16:06:17    2180671

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Replying To WheresDeBallBag:  "How do you know it's broken everyday. There is plenty of ways to ensure correct insurance is in place to cater for differing communities needs. I doubt you are privy to the insurance details of all the Ltd community companies across the country.
If you do maybe you should make the club involved aware of their issue or better yet help them put it right."
How do I know, well I do know that the clubs I am aware of are fully vested in the GAA, their AstroTurf pitches are not limited company or community based pitches, their insurance is covered by the GAA & I am aware of this through their club members. I see local soccer clubs training on these pitches every week for the last number of years. There is no need for me to make them aware, they have people involved at the highest levels so they are well aware of the rules, it goes back to my main point on this in that a blind eye is being turned to what's going on, typical GAA, one rule for some, another for others.
It's quite ironic also how in the space of last year that the GAA could change the rules for County grounds following the whole Liam Miller fiasco, meaning that American football, concerts, soccer or rugby can be now played on all vested GAA county grounds & their is no mention of insurance difficulties.

Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 28/04/2019 16:27:06    2180675

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Replying To WheresDeBallBag:  "
Replying To GreenandRed:  "No club has the right to ok a soccer match and expect insurance cover and anyone who knows anything about insurance cover should know that-maybe we should get the GAA to insure all our pitches for soccer play!, and maybe we should then start to pay them to play-is that the sort of logic you aspire to. Now saying plenty of people being involved in both codes is a good reason for giving the pitch makes even less sense.

You're a great man for wrongly assuming what I think. Bad enough that the wife thinks she's a mindreader. I'll wrongly assume that you'd be happier if GAA clubs were solely made up of people only interested in GAA sports without goodwill to any other sports."
It dosnt matter what you or your wife thinks or assumes. He's right. No club can decide and OK an event that falls outside of the activity in the gaa insurance policy. These same restrictions apply within the gaa itself. All clubs have insurance via the GAA policy which defines the activities. If a club wishes to do something outside of this they can request if the gaas insurance will quote them the extra premium or seek a separate policy and indemnify the GAA policy. This could be as simple as works in the Clubrooms. I think the policy covers general mantainence but let's say it covers changing a light bulb but it dosnt cover changing the light fitting itself. If someone has an accident changing a light fitting even if the club has sanctioned this. The insurers dont have to pay out and the club itself could be left open to a legal battle which could lead to them having to pay compensation from their own pocket. Not many clubs could afford this and some couldn't survive this. That is why the rule is in place. Nothing to do with other sports."
I know that Browncows and yourself are right about the insurance. Just saying not to assume that I think that all GAA clubs should be insuring pitches for other sports to be played and for GAA players to be paid. Some might decide case by case to get extra insurance for soccer. As for paying players they do it because they love the games. I think some clubs must use that extra coverage for non-GAA activities like 5-a-side soccer or kids art classes and I think it's no harm. Hopefully they'll still get a return after paying extra insurance plus it'd encourage more kids and parents to get involved in the GAA activities there. Many rural clubs would surely find it difficult to survive without other community based activities on their grounds from a finance and future participant basis.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7337 - 28/04/2019 19:06:36    2180703

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Replying To Uimhir.a.3.:  "How do I know, well I do know that the clubs I am aware of are fully vested in the GAA, their AstroTurf pitches are not limited company or community based pitches, their insurance is covered by the GAA & I am aware of this through their club members. I see local soccer clubs training on these pitches every week for the last number of years. There is no need for me to make them aware, they have people involved at the highest levels so they are well aware of the rules, it goes back to my main point on this in that a blind eye is being turned to what's going on, typical GAA, one rule for some, another for others.
It's quite ironic also how in the space of last year that the GAA could change the rules for County grounds following the whole Liam Miller fiasco, meaning that American football, concerts, soccer or rugby can be now played on all vested GAA county grounds & their is no mention of insurance difficulties."
Right take the tin foil hat off for a minute.
When booking the astroturf pitch there is terms and conditions accepted. These terms and conditions generally include that the booker should inspect/accept the facility is in good working order prior to start. Also that they should have their own insurance and/or that people willfully partaking in sport accept the risk. Whatever way they are worded the terms and conditions look after this so you can put down the pitchfork.
No word of insurance as all these stadium and events have a policy separate to the one availed of by gaa clubs as a whole.

WheresDeBallBag (Louth) - Posts: 458 - 28/04/2019 19:09:27    2180705

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Replying To WheresDeBallBag:  "Right take the tin foil hat off for a minute.
When booking the astroturf pitch there is terms and conditions accepted. These terms and conditions generally include that the booker should inspect/accept the facility is in good working order prior to start. Also that they should have their own insurance and/or that people willfully partaking in sport accept the risk. Whatever way they are worded the terms and conditions look after this so you can put down the pitchfork.
No word of insurance as all these stadium and events have a policy separate to the one availed of by gaa clubs as a whole."
Regardless of the insurance you are raising, the fact is that clubs vested in the GAA cannot allow other sporting organisations use their facilities, so terms & conditions is all a smokescreen, vested clubs are allowing soccer clubs use their facilities, breaking the rule with no consequence. You can throw tinfoil hats & pitchforks all you like, but it's a simple fact what's happening.

Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 28/04/2019 22:23:50    2180731

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Replying To PyatPree:  "It was for charity"
Yes we are all aware of that. Why not have a charity football, hurling match on the field and a charity soccer game on the local soccer field. Why complicate matters and break rules that are there for everyone, I'm a GAA member and there are rules I do not like but I abide by them and get on with it. The GAA are correct and they are being publicly ridiculed by people with agendas.

Tom1916 (Armagh) - Posts: 2001 - 29/04/2019 11:57:43    2180781

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Replying To Uimhir.a.3.:  "Regardless of the insurance you are raising, the fact is that clubs vested in the GAA cannot allow other sporting organisations use their facilities, so terms & conditions is all a smokescreen, vested clubs are allowing soccer clubs use their facilities, breaking the rule with no consequence. You can throw tinfoil hats & pitchforks all you like, but it's a simple fact what's happening."
You are simply wrong and if you read the offical guide or got involved you might learn. The rule describes that property vested in the association should be used for association activities. It also stats how central council can allow other functions if it is deemed to further the aims of the association.
I know for a fact of an athletic club who lease the use of a gaa vested property. There is no issue they have their own insurance and the contract was proofed by Central council and Co-sign by a member of provincial Council, County board and club.
So simply your facts are wrong.

WheresDeBallBag (Louth) - Posts: 458 - 29/04/2019 14:11:22    2180826

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Replying To WheresDeBallBag:  "You are simply wrong and if you read the offical guide or got involved you might learn. The rule describes that property vested in the association should be used for association activities. It also stats how central council can allow other functions if it is deemed to further the aims of the association.
I know for a fact of an athletic club who lease the use of a gaa vested property. There is no issue they have their own insurance and the contract was proofed by Central council and Co-sign by a member of provincial Council, County board and club.
So simply your facts are wrong."
Contrary to your argument, I know of a soccer club who sought the same conditions & had all the cover as your athletic club & who were refused, so that implodes your point. There are also many cases where clubs have been punished for hiring their facilities out to soccer clubs, it happened last year in Ulster. Can you tell me where in the Clar Oifiguil that it clearly states that Central Council can give clear permission to other codes to use vested GAA property of clubs. The ruling has been changed this year since Congress for Central Council to grant permission for County grounds, I cannot see where it states that Central Council can make such decisions for clubs even if it "furthers the aims of the Association". Maybe you can tell us how many times Central Council have granted such permissions & how many they rejected. Surely raising funds for a very ill man that contributed his time voluntarily both playing & managing at his local GAA club, furthers the aim of the Association ! Take off the suit & blinkers & look at how your trying to spin the wording to suit yourself, typical official speak.

Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 29/04/2019 17:00:26    2180874

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Replying To Uimhir.a.3.:  "Contrary to your argument, I know of a soccer club who sought the same conditions & had all the cover as your athletic club & who were refused, so that implodes your point. There are also many cases where clubs have been punished for hiring their facilities out to soccer clubs, it happened last year in Ulster. Can you tell me where in the Clar Oifiguil that it clearly states that Central Council can give clear permission to other codes to use vested GAA property of clubs. The ruling has been changed this year since Congress for Central Council to grant permission for County grounds, I cannot see where it states that Central Council can make such decisions for clubs even if it "furthers the aims of the Association". Maybe you can tell us how many times Central Council have granted such permissions & how many they rejected. Surely raising funds for a very ill man that contributed his time voluntarily both playing & managing at his local GAA club, furthers the aim of the Association ! Take off the suit & blinkers & look at how your trying to spin the wording to suit yourself, typical official speak."
Section 5.1. Hardly implodes my point when it's fact. If correct procedures are followed the gaa fully facilitate other community Groups. I can't tell you a number but from my own experience if it's done right it's fine. Don't know what more you want me to say. It's not going to stem your outrage at the "GAA".
Set up, or if there is one, contribute to a go fund me for the cause. Everyone wishes they could help this man, his family and friends in their time of need but who would fundraise the money to save the club if it was found liable for any accident that happened on the day. At the end of the day that's what it comes down to. Not the sport not the cause but protecting a club.

WheresDeBallBag (Louth) - Posts: 458 - 29/04/2019 20:06:24    2180913

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Replying To WheresDeBallBag:  "Section 5.1. Hardly implodes my point when it's fact. If correct procedures are followed the gaa fully facilitate other community Groups. I can't tell you a number but from my own experience if it's done right it's fine. Don't know what more you want me to say. It's not going to stem your outrage at the "GAA".
Set up, or if there is one, contribute to a go fund me for the cause. Everyone wishes they could help this man, his family and friends in their time of need but who would fundraise the money to save the club if it was found liable for any accident that happened on the day. At the end of the day that's what it comes down to. Not the sport not the cause but protecting a club."
I asked you to back up your point by specifying where it explicitly stated in the Clar Oifiguil that Central Council had the express power to grant permission to grant other codes the use of vested GAA properties as you had suggested they could & you replied Section 5:1. So let's look at Section 5:1, titled "Uses of Property", (a) "All property including grounds, clubhouses, halls, dressing rooms & handball alleys owned or controlled by the Association shall be used only for the purpose of or in connection with the playing of games by the Association & for such other purposes not in conflict with the aims & objects of the Association, that may be sanctioned from time to time by the Central Council.
So that quite clearly rules out use by other codes such as soccer & rugby as they are in direct conflict with the aims & objectives of the Association, a point re-emphasised very forcefully by the Uachtaran of the Association publicly this week. You seem to think otherwise & that there is no problem for other codes.

Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 30/04/2019 00:19:49    2180947

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Replying To Uimhir.a.3.:  "I asked you to back up your point by specifying where it explicitly stated in the Clar Oifiguil that Central Council had the express power to grant permission to grant other codes the use of vested GAA properties as you had suggested they could & you replied Section 5:1. So let's look at Section 5:1, titled "Uses of Property", (a) "All property including grounds, clubhouses, halls, dressing rooms & handball alleys owned or controlled by the Association shall be used only for the purpose of or in connection with the playing of games by the Association & for such other purposes not in conflict with the aims & objects of the Association, that may be sanctioned from time to time by the Central Council.
So that quite clearly rules out use by other codes such as soccer & rugby as they are in direct conflict with the aims & objectives of the Association, a point re-emphasised very forcefully by the Uachtaran of the Association publicly this week. You seem to think otherwise & that there is no problem for other codes."
I never mentioned soccer or rugby. This whole topic is around an fundraiser which fell outside of the gaas insurance policy. I can't see who or what you have really have a problem with or what you are so annoyed about. We'd all love to turn a blind eye and just do it but as I said who covers the club if there is an accident and claim made. We all know in Ireland compensation for claims can quickly reach serious figures.

WheresDeBallBag (Louth) - Posts: 458 - 30/04/2019 09:42:47    2180973

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the key is not to ask for permission in gaa.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 30/04/2019 18:49:24    2181115

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Replying To perfect10:  "the key is not to ask for permission in gaa."
Agreed, then some poor auld secretary has to sign a letter to say "it happened in training"

WheresDeBallBag (Louth) - Posts: 458 - 30/04/2019 22:01:09    2181159

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