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Down's Quarter Century Wait For Ulster...

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Reading this today on the main page....Amazing to think its been 25 years since Down last won an Ulster senior title. link gaelicgab (USA) - Posts: 878 - 18/04/2019 16:50:12 2179469 Link
Replying To gaelicgab: "Reading this today on the main page....Amazing to think its been 25 years since Down last won an Ulster senior title. link" Never would have thought that it was that long since they won Ulster. The fact that they were in the All Ireland final in 2010 probably makes it seem that have won Ulster more recently lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 2987 - 18/04/2019 17:18:38 2179472 Link
I honestly don't understand why this is so surprising to most people. Down are a poor team with a poor county pedigree over the past few decades. You cannot live off past glory forever! Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 21/04/2019 14:07:09 2179741 Link
Replying To Wally: "I honestly don't understand why this is so surprising to most people. Down are a poor team with a poor county pedigree over the past few decades. You cannot live off past glory forever!" In the Championship Down have at least beaten Kerry in Croke Park in the last 10 years. What non-Ulster teams have Tyrone beaten there in that time? Roscommon? greatpoint (USA) - Posts: 427 - 21/04/2019 16:30:13 2179749 Link
Replying To greatpoint: "In the Championship Down have at least beaten Kerry in Croke Park in the last 10 years. What non-Ulster teams have Tyrone beaten there in that time? Roscommon?" So that's how u judge success over the past 25 years. Beating Kerry once in a All Ireland quarter final? Shows how ambitious you are. Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 21/04/2019 16:55:50 2179755 Link
Replying To Wally: "So that's how u judge success over the past 25 years. Beating Kerry once in a All Ireland quarter final? Shows how ambitious you are." I think you missed the point. As bad as you're portraying Down to be, they still have achieved something that Tyrone haven't over the last decade: beating an All-Ireland contender in Croke Park. greatpoint (USA) - Posts: 427 - 21/04/2019 18:02:47 2179758 Link
Replying To greatpoint: "I think you missed the point. As bad as you're portraying Down to be, they still have achieved something that Tyrone haven't over the last decade: beating an All-Ireland contender in Croke Park." Ok so Down achieved one thing that Tyrone haven't over the past 10 years. They beat Kerry once in championship football (which eventually lead to nothing anyway). That really has nothing to do with this thread though. Over the past 10 years Tyrone have won 4 Ulsters titles, 9 McKenna cups, 1 division 2 national league and have contested numerous All Ireland quarter finals and semi finals. There is absolutely no comparison between the two counties. My original post was not to try and compare Down against my county as like I said there is no comparison. My point was that I could not understand why people are surprised that they have not won an Ulster title in the past 25 years as they clearly are not a very good football county in modern times and you cannot live of past glory forever. Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 21/04/2019 21:00:35 2179771 Link
Replying To Wally: "Ok so Down achieved one thing that Tyrone haven't over the past 10 years. They beat Kerry once in championship football (which eventually lead to nothing anyway). That really has nothing to do with this thread though. Over the past 10 years Tyrone have won 4 Ulsters titles, 9 McKenna cups, 1 division 2 national league and have contested numerous All Ireland quarter finals and semi finals. There is absolutely no comparison between the two counties. My original post was not to try and compare Down against my county as like I said there is no comparison. My point was that I could not understand why people are surprised that they have not won an Ulster title in the past 25 years as they clearly are not a very good football county in modern times and you cannot live of past glory forever." Here is a comparison... Down 5 All Irelands Tyrone only 3 Won't be closing that gap any time soon... You have to love the way these nouveau riche GAA counties only start counting from their first big win! MadgeKing (Cavan) - Posts: 493 - 21/04/2019 21:38:46 2179777 Link
Replying To greatpoint: "I think you missed the point. As bad as you're portraying Down to be, they still have achieved something that Tyrone haven't over the last decade: beating an All-Ireland contender in Croke Park." Completely agree with Wally......which is surprising because we have disagree on a hell of a lot on here. Your clutching at straws with the Down beat Kerry statement.....that was 2010. Down have been poor. They are div 3 for a reason. Didn't get promoted this year when they were in a great position. It's a non argument The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 21/04/2019 21:59:12 2179780 Link
Replying To MadgeKing: "Here is a comparison... Down 5 All Irelands Tyrone only 3 Won't be closing that gap any time soon... You have to love the way these nouveau riche GAA counties only start counting from their first big win!" To be fair Tyrone got to an all ireland last year. Good youth structure etc. I think we are closed to an all Ireland than Down. The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 21/04/2019 22:41:07 2179786 Link
Down have SF All Ireland titles, 1960, 1961, 1968,1991 and 1994. They defeated Kerry in 1960 and 1968, possibly 1961,someone might confirm this.and 2010 qualifier. Add in 12 Ulster titles and 4 National Leagues, they have a good record, sure, they have faded from the limelight in recent years, but so have a lot of teams, Offaly included. They should have been promoted from Div 3 this year, but will be promotion contenders in 2020. The late Maurice Hayes was secretary to Down Co. Board in the breakthrough years, in 1960, they were honoured by Belfast City Council, as the first team from the 6 Counties to win the All Ireland. That was a Unionist majority Council, in those days, before one man, one vote, and Nationalists got equal rights in Northern Ireland, after a long struggle. Down were innovators in Gaelic Football, beating a dominant Kerry in 1960, and introducing black togs,and track suits, to Gaelic Football. Their record can never be erased from the annals. Good luck to the other Ulster counties who won Sam Maguire in the past 27 years, All Irelands are not the preserve of the elite, every county can dream of winning All Ireland titles, and with the right attitude, management and players that goal can be achieved. Rant over, good luck to all posters' counties this year. thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1735 - 21/04/2019 22:55:25 2179787 Link
Cavan are waiting 22 years. 5 All Ireland's. 39 Ulster titles. People tend to forget this. Whenever there is talk about a county that should be doing better because of its pedigree, people never mention Cavan. It's usually Down, Meath, Cork and Galway. Has anyone any suggestions as to why this is the case? Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 575 - 22/04/2019 11:06:17 2179805 Link
Replying To Cavan_Shambles: "Cavan are waiting 22 years. 5 All Ireland's. 39 Ulster titles. People tend to forget this. Whenever there is talk about a county that should be doing better because of its pedigree, people never mention Cavan. It's usually Down, Meath, Cork and Galway. Has anyone any suggestions as to why this is the case?" Because they have been so poor in the last number of decades. I can't remember a mighty Cavan side in my lifetime. The last time they won ulster was 1997 and they were only ok back then. Haven't even made an ulster final since 2001. that is almost 20 years ago. I suppose if you go back far enough, wexford won 4 all irelands in a row, but no one would name them as a footballing county. Or London for that mater. Nor Limerick either. There is a generation of people growing up that don't have any memory of cavan in Croke park. Meath are slipping into this category likewise although they have been much more recent all Ireland contenders. (winners in1999 and 2001 finalists). Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 22/04/2019 11:35:06 2179808 Link
Replying To MadgeKing: "Here is a comparison... Down 5 All Irelands Tyrone only 3 Won't be closing that gap any time soon... You have to love the way these nouveau riche GAA counties only start counting from their first big win!" Another comment that has nothing to do with the subject matter and actually validates what I am saying. It doesn't matter that Down have 5 All Ireland's. The last of these were generations ago. My point again is that you cannot live off past glory forever. It is not surprising at all that Down have not won an Ulster title in 25 years as they have been extremely poor during that time. If someone starts a thread on how impressive Down were during their golden years then I will totally agree but that is not the topic we are discussing. Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 22/04/2019 20:03:47 2179833 Link
Replying To The_Fridge: "Completely agree with Wally......which is surprising because we have disagree on a hell of a lot on here. Your clutching at straws with the Down beat Kerry statement.....that was 2010. Down have been poor. They are div 3 for a reason. Didn't get promoted this year when they were in a great position. It's a non argument" Good man Fridge. Good to hear from you. I have been missing you. I am sure we will have a few more ding dongs this summer! Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 22/04/2019 20:05:25 2179834 Link
Replying To Cavan_Shambles: "Cavan are waiting 22 years. 5 All Ireland's. 39 Ulster titles. People tend to forget this. Whenever there is talk about a county that should be doing better because of its pedigree, people never mention Cavan. It's usually Down, Meath, Cork and Galway. Has anyone any suggestions as to why this is the case?" Cavan are a small county population wise. Down, Meath, Cork and Galway are big population wise. Back in the day, Cavan, would have had a bigger population and ranked much higher in population size relative to other counties. Of course, emigration has wreaked havoc in every county but few counties have suffered as much as Cavan and Roscommon when it comes to population decline and its effect on overall ranking. Once you're outside of top 20 in size it's very hard to compete. Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 22/04/2019 23:24:01 2179856 Link
Yes wally we have had no Ulster titles in 25 years at senior level and no Ulster titles in almost 20 years at minor level. We are all very aware of this in Down and this statistic wont change short term. We are miles of the mighty Tyrone. We have been behind in the standards and structures set by other counties in Ulster but we all realise this in Down. Our county board are putting more emphasize with our development squads than previously with a target to try and get our teams competitive for which we haven't been for sometime. If we can achieve this then there is chance an Ulster title is achieveable as we do have talented players but we wont make any bold predictions at this point . downtothecore (Down) - Posts: 349 - 23/04/2019 09:14:01 2179870 Link
Can't be denied that Down are in a desperately poor situation at the minute and there's a heap of reasons for it that will get worse if they aren't addressed sooner rather than later. There's a massive split between east down and south down at every level, there are boys still living of the 94 glory, there are no proper, fully backed underage structures in place and a county board...well less said about them the better. Down need to forget about the glory days and go back to the basics and build from underage up just like Tyrone, Kerry and Dublin have done. It's not easy by any stretch of imagination but it's crucial if we are to get back to the top. To be totally honest Down struggled enough in Division 3, they scraped marginal wins and failed to secure promotion...tbh i think some, including the team themselves, took promotion for granted walking into the Louth game. One of the huge problems in Down is some people think things just 'happen'. I remember when we got to the Ulster final in 2017 against Tyrone and it was considered a massive achievement. When in reality we beat a mediocre Armagh team at the time and caught Monaghan on the hop - evidenced by Monaghan beating us comprehensively later on the same year. A lot of changes needed, I've said it plenty before than Benny Coulter painted over a lot of cracks in Down football, we always tiddled along nicely being thereabouts for years and now we simply don't have that big man, the big name, the skill and passion needed to make a successful team. Big changes needed across the board and a hell of a lot of open mindedness before Down can think about getting back to the top. MissDownFanatic (Down) - Posts: 411 - 23/04/2019 09:16:51 2179871 Link
Success for Down normally followed under age success at schools and minor level but other countries caught up and work at under age level may still be the key. Traditional schools no longer have it easy in McRory etc as the last few years have proved. However Down only won five Ulster titles since 1970 so the longer one goes without success the harder it is to get back to the top. Derry seem to be facing similar problems maybe Meath as well. Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1780 - 23/04/2019 10:24:45 2179878 Link
Replying To Hardtimes: "Cavan are a small county population wise. Down, Meath, Cork and Galway are big population wise. Back in the day, Cavan, would have had a bigger population and ranked much higher in population size relative to other counties. Of course, emigration has wreaked havoc in every county but few counties have suffered as much as Cavan and Roscommon when it comes to population decline and its effect on overall ranking. Once you're outside of top 20 in size it's very hard to compete." I think Cavan have been competitive enough in the last few years. They've played Div 1 league football on a few occasions. They just don't seem to have a marquee forward or two that could really bring them on. I've watched them play Monaghan a few times and they've been very close encounters other than the McManus factor. Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9115 - 23/04/2019 10:54:38 2179881 Link