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Replying To brisbane: "Can you define the tackle in football ?" Read the GAA rule book. Clearly defined. Definition is not the problem. Ignoring of the rule is. Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 06/03/2019 00:45:53 2170532 Link
Replying To jimbodub: "I remember playing up front and always took a sense of pride from the difficulty of it, playing with your back turned to your objective, knowing that catching a ball was only the first part Getting out in front of my man and catching the ball was the easy bit for me. I'm a fraction off 6'2" and 14.5 stone Having the skill to turn my marker and beat him after catching the ball was the hardest part and for me took the most skill. Getting a free shot at goal for catching a ball is going to erase a lot of skill out of being a forward (I'd have scored a lot more) while also removing the physical guile and trickery out of the game. We'll all end up with 6'6" former basketball players getting long ball lumped in at them standing on the edge of the square for tap over frees... how entertaining... If you catch your ball you fecking well have to beat your man/men.. that's our sport! That's a forwards job.. why are we removing skill and physicality from our game? Jaysus I'm glad I played when I did... I've seen Dublin benefit from it during this league campaign and it makes me wince a little.. it feels like a cop out and it's all a wee bit light!!" But at this stage nobody is kicking the ball in to forwards and that's the problem. You say we are removing the skill from the game. Catching and kicking are the two biggest skills in football and I would argue they have been absent already for some time now. Slow laborious hand passing and 'recycling' are the order of the day, god forbid you should kick a ball in to your full forward and give away the dreaded turnover. Football is like the ugly love child of basketball and chess nowadays and most games are as dull as dishwater. Footballers are probably more skilful than ever but we are not seeing it, it's all about physicality and keeping possession. I don't think we'd get 6'6" basketballers flooding in to football either, that's a lazy comment. What will happen is that forwards who can win their own ball and kick a score will thrive rather than get mauled by three or four backs when they come down with the ball, with the rulebook stacked in the defenders favour. I think the mark has been a success during this league personally. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 06/03/2019 01:11:23 2170533 Link
Nah man What's lazy is expecting to get a free kick at goal for simply catching a ball into your ches jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20598 - 06/03/2019 07:56:19 2170539 Link
I like where the advanced mark is coming from. It's an extra option for attacking teams so in that regard I was more in favour of it than of the other silly rules which seemed like they were designed with the purpose of helping out the defence eventhough their stated aim was the opposite! I'd agree with others above that the advanced mark seems a little easy or manufactured to me. I understand people want to see more skills rewarded but I think the advanced mark currently is too easy. We're giving a player a free for catching the ball, the most basic skill in the game! The first skill you teach a 5 year old. Frees given to players after little 20m pop passes into the chest doesn't add anything to the game imo. If it is brought in down the line for championship this is how the top teams will use it. The vast majority of them won't be incredible pieces of skill that are rewarded, rather little, easy passes into someone's chest and they'll have a free shot at goal. For me high fielding is great but when you remove the second part of the movement, ie taking on your man, the act of high fielding is not as spectacular. MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13704 - 06/03/2019 08:13:09 2170542 Link
Replying To jimbodub: "I remember playing up front and always took a sense of pride from the difficulty of it, playing with your back turned to your objective, knowing that catching a ball was only the first part Getting out in front of my man and catching the ball was the easy bit for me. I'm a fraction off 6'2" and 14.5 stone Having the skill to turn my marker and beat him after catching the ball was the hardest part and for me took the most skill. Getting a free shot at goal for catching a ball is going to erase a lot of skill out of being a forward (I'd have scored a lot more) while also removing the physical guile and trickery out of the game. We'll all end up with 6'6" former basketball players getting long ball lumped in at them standing on the edge of the square for tap over frees... how entertaining... If you catch your ball you fecking well have to beat your man/men.. that's our sport! That's a forwards job.. why are we removing skill and physicality from our game? Jaysus I'm glad I played when I did... I've seen Dublin benefit from it during this league campaign and it makes me wince a little.. it feels like a cop out and it's all a wee bit light!!" Jim if the game was still being played they way you describe them then this rule would not have been trialled. Its the lack of kicking, the main skill of the game that has brought this about. Over use of the handpass is a blight on the game. westkerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1250 - 06/03/2019 08:21:56 2170543 Link
Replying To jimbodub: "I remember playing up front and always took a sense of pride from the difficulty of it, playing with your back turned to your objective, knowing that catching a ball was only the first part Getting out in front of my man and catching the ball was the easy bit for me. I'm a fraction off 6'2" and 14.5 stone Having the skill to turn my marker and beat him after catching the ball was the hardest part and for me took the most skill. Getting a free shot at goal for catching a ball is going to erase a lot of skill out of being a forward (I'd have scored a lot more) while also removing the physical guile and trickery out of the game. We'll all end up with 6'6" former basketball players getting long ball lumped in at them standing on the edge of the square for tap over frees... how entertaining... If you catch your ball you fecking well have to beat your man/men.. that's our sport! That's a forwards job.. why are we removing skill and physicality from our game? Jaysus I'm glad I played when I did... I've seen Dublin benefit from it during this league campaign and it makes me wince a little.. it feels like a cop out and it's all a wee bit light!!" I hear you but I can't see any good forward catching a ball in the danger area and not willing to take on his man. Its the first thing nearly all Dublin forwards do they run at their man. dubarra (Wicklow) - Posts: 541 - 06/03/2019 09:06:28 2170551 Link
Replying To jimbodub: "I remember playing up front and always took a sense of pride from the difficulty of it, playing with your back turned to your objective, knowing that catching a ball was only the first part Getting out in front of my man and catching the ball was the easy bit for me. I'm a fraction off 6'2" and 14.5 stone Having the skill to turn my marker and beat him after catching the ball was the hardest part and for me took the most skill. Getting a free shot at goal for catching a ball is going to erase a lot of skill out of being a forward (I'd have scored a lot more) while also removing the physical guile and trickery out of the game. We'll all end up with 6'6" former basketball players getting long ball lumped in at them standing on the edge of the square for tap over frees... how entertaining... If you catch your ball you fecking well have to beat your man/men.. that's our sport! That's a forwards job.. why are we removing skill and physicality from our game? Jaysus I'm glad I played when I did... I've seen Dublin benefit from it during this league campaign and it makes me wince a little.. it feels like a cop out and it's all a wee bit light!!" Have to agree with you here Jimbo, from a selfish point of view it would be great for Dublin given our kicking ability and fielding. But with a non sky blue lens on the issue the reward for the skill isn't equitable. I know a high ball arms outstretched caught can be a thing of beauty, but to be honest the majority of marks i have seen in games so far have been pretty unimpressive diagonal balls of minimum distance and lads taking the ball into the chest, pretty basic. For me like i said the skill doesn't justify the reward. You can also manipulate it, why not have all your forwards dropping deep zonally into the space of being rewarded a mark, flood the area and just take free shots all day. In spirit i like what the mark was trying to do, i just thin its a bit idealistic and unrealistic in application. But i dont really mind, Dublin make hay. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 06/03/2019 10:09:09 2170561 Link
Replying To jimbodub: "Nah man What's lazy is expecting to get a free kick at goal for simply catching a ball into your ches" Give me that over endless handpassing around the 45 any day of the week. Look at Tommy Walsh's marks over the weekend and tell me that doesn't add to the game. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 06/03/2019 10:22:44 2170565 Link
Replying To GeniusGerry: "Give me that over endless handpassing around the 45 any day of the week. Look at Tommy Walsh's marks over the weekend and tell me that doesn't add to the game." That is generalisng a bit though Gerry on both counts, there are examples of fantastic forward marks, but also some pretty basic ones, i'm not sure you can equate the level of skill say Tommy Wlash fielding, with a lad just taking it into the chest on minimum distance, even within the one rule their are diverse and variable levels of skills piece for the same reward. One cold be majestic the other fairly basic but for a similar reward, its not to scale really. Equally with hand passing, i watched a great passage of hand passing from front to back Kerry played against Monaghan on Sunday, hand passing, can also be beautiful, expansive, innovative and creative and add to the game, its not all universally bad. Someone made the point earlier in the thread, that football can be played beautifully within the current rules and that perhaps its attitudes that needs to change, it was a very good point. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 06/03/2019 10:43:21 2170568 Link
He still did that but was allowed to be tackled once upon a time.. jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20598 - 06/03/2019 10:50:17 2170571 Link
All a wee bit on the light side for me and it will in time eradicate a lot of physicality and skill from the game, it'll actually benefit Dublin very well ad username said but again.. it's all a bit easy. Getting a free in for catching a ball in your chest?? That's simply not football.. Dubs didn't need such a rule to be able to dismantle the blanket and render it useless on their way to 4 in a row and go on the greatest run of championship wins unbeaten in GAA history. It took guile, skill, patience, support runners, tactical awareness and hard bloody graft.. Thankfully no rule change was needed. jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20598 - 06/03/2019 11:02:22 2170572 Link
We'll agree to differ and yes of course football can be hugely entertaining if played a certain way within the rules but when we do see this it is the exception rather than the norm at this stage. I can see both sides of the argument. We know we won't have the mark for the championship but we'll see what happens after that. I don't mind positive changes to the rules personally GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 06/03/2019 11:04:28 2170573 Link
Replying To Hardtimes: "Read the GAA rule book. Clearly defined. Definition is not the problem. Ignoring of the rule is." Yeah the tackle is one rule that has been let go to pot. I don't think any referee plays the rule as defined any more as I can't remember the last match where I seen a ref blowing up for the man (or woman....) being tackled. As per Rule book: The tackle is a skill by which one or more players may dispossess an opponent or frustrate his objective within the Rules of Fair Play. A tackle is aimed at the ball, not the player. A tackler may use his body to confront the opponent but deliberate bodily contact such as punching, slapping, arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge is forbidden. The only deliberate physical contact allowed is that in the course of a Fair Charge one player only with at least one foot on the ground , makes a shoulder to shoulder charge on the player in possession. Again it has to be said, the problem is not necessarily with the rules (which they have been far too eager to tinker with over the last decade + ) but the application of the rules and there is only one person on the pitch who can control that! Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 06/03/2019 11:25:28 2170583 Link
Replying To jimbodub: "All a wee bit on the light side for me and it will in time eradicate a lot of physicality and skill from the game, it'll actually benefit Dublin very well ad username said but again.. it's all a bit easy. Getting a free in for catching a ball in your chest?? That's simply not football.. Dubs didn't need such a rule to be able to dismantle the blanket and render it useless on their way to 4 in a row and go on the greatest run of championship wins unbeaten in GAA history. It took guile, skill, patience, support runners, tactical awareness and hard bloody graft.. Thankfully no rule change was needed." This hybrid basketball game that has developed isn't football either in my view and it can be very tedious to watch. GAA are clearly very worried about the way the game has gone given all this tinkering with rules so we'll see what happens. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 06/03/2019 11:42:57 2170589 Link
Some coaches are the problem with their 'don't be beaten' message rather than encourage players to express themselves and play expansive football. Even when rules change negative coaches will coach a team to play defensively. It's up to good coaches to devise attacking tactics to get around these defensive systems. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7335 - 06/03/2019 12:19:01 2170600 Link
Green and Red you hit the nail on the head. The way the game is managed is he biggest problem. Wasn't there an U-15 game played last week and the score was something like 3-2 the manager who is responsible for that should not be allowed to manage. How many of those kids will be running down to training. They will go off and play Rugby or Soccer the next day. gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 06/03/2019 12:53:03 2170608 Link
Replying To tulachmhór: "I think the advanced mark has been successful so far. Added an extra dimension and rewards vision, accurate kick passing and good fielding of the ball- all good core skills which need to be promoted. I think it will come into it's own more come championship time, I'm sure teams are figuring out a way to use it to their advantage and not showing their playbook yet. Some old games are horrible to watch when you see men getting surrounded after a lovely catch." You watch the Tyrone Cavan game? how much did you lose? ;) The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 06/03/2019 13:38:11 2170624 Link
Replying To jimbodub: "Nah man What's lazy is expecting to get a free kick at goal for simply catching a ball into your ches" Agree. Takes a lot from the skills of the game. The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 06/03/2019 13:43:55 2170628 Link
Our game is a mix of fielding, kicking and handpassing. It moves very quickly and that's what keeps the blood pumping as a spectator. Any rule that brings a stop/start nature will only make it more boring than it is already. realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8584 - 06/03/2019 14:20:01 2170643 Link
Replying To Offside_Rule: "Yeah the tackle is one rule that has been let go to pot. I don't think any referee plays the rule as defined any more as I can't remember the last match where I seen a ref blowing up for the man (or woman....) being tackled. As per Rule book: The tackle is a skill by which one or more players may dispossess an opponent or frustrate his objective within the Rules of Fair Play. A tackle is aimed at the ball, not the player. A tackler may use his body to confront the opponent but deliberate bodily contact such as punching, slapping, arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge is forbidden. The only deliberate physical contact allowed is that in the course of a Fair Charge one player only with at least one foot on the ground , makes a shoulder to shoulder charge on the player in possession. Again it has to be said, the problem is not necessarily with the rules (which they have been far too eager to tinker with over the last decade + ) but the application of the rules and there is only one person on the pitch who can control that!" 100% that is not what's being referreed, frontal charging to slow the man down before the tackle is actively coached. If teams are penalised because of that you would see mass defending become way less effective. You would see teams having to push out more. The big problem in the game is the lack of engagement, not the handpass. We should look at ways to encourage teams to push out more. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4201 - 06/03/2019 15:20:18 2170657 Link