National Forum

Donegal's Motion Fails

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Replying To mayotyroneman:  "So now it has been acknowledged that croke park is now Dublin's home ground..it was set in stone yesterday that croke park is now Dublin's home ground...so when it comes to an all Ireland semi final or indeed final involving Dublin will they continue to have home advantage of will the game be played at a neutral venue?"
Yesterday's decision will ensure that Dublin play their neutral & home game at Croke Park, the semi finals will also be there regardless. End of this story now forever as only 34% of the vote had the bottle to vote NO. It will be nice to see it coming back to bite some of these counties in the a#se that voted no. Fair play to the Dubs, record funding, record sponsorship, majority of games in Croke Park, majority of officials now from Dublin or Dublin club men from GPA to President. John Costello has maximised every angle, the other counties can only blame themselves & their gutless delegates who are afraid to rock the boat in case they upset their chances of future votes or committee appointments.

Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 24/02/2019 23:56:16    2167794

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Replying To lilywhite1:  "Two words for the delegates who voted down Donegal' s motion: Gutless cowards."
Likely would have faced unfavourable croke park treatment had they voted in favour of the Donegal motion. We will never know for sure, but I think a wexford poster spelt it out quite well earlier how it all works behind the scenes.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 24/02/2019 23:57:14    2167795

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Replying To Uimhir.a.3.:  "Yesterday's decision will ensure that Dublin play their neutral & home game at Croke Park, the semi finals will also be there regardless. End of this story now forever as only 34% of the vote had the bottle to vote NO. It will be nice to see it coming back to bite some of these counties in the a#se that voted no. Fair play to the Dubs, record funding, record sponsorship, majority of games in Croke Park, majority of officials now from Dublin or Dublin club men from GPA to President. John Costello has maximised every angle, the other counties can only blame themselves & their gutless delegates who are afraid to rock the boat in case they upset their chances of future votes or committee appointments."
The motion was wrong to begin with. Had it succeeded Dublin would still have played two super 8 games in Dublin, one in CP and on in PP. Instead the vote should have targeted the Croke Park neutral venue designation in the super 8 rules and simply changed this to neutral venue. This would have pitted Dublin v X in Semple or somewhere. To be honest I think most counties would prefer to play Dublin "away" at Croke Park, surroundings that most are familiar with, than away at Parnell Park where the crowd are breathing down your neck.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 25/02/2019 08:54:33    2167835

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i don't think the croke park neutral game is a problem for most but the croke park home game is. parnell park should be used as the home game. really, dublin should have a 25000-30000 seater somewhere else in dublin which would solve all problems for the home fixture but they dont and if it comes to parnell park (low gate receipts) or croke park (potentially massive gate receipts depending on the opposition) then the gaa will always go for croke park. the dublin team or fans well show up anywhere for this fixture and will just get on with it. unfortunately, the gaa have always been money hungry and this is just another example of how they haven't changed

superdub (Dublin) - Posts: 392 - 25/02/2019 09:52:37    2167860

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If Kildare and Dublin are drawn in the same super eights group, with Kildares designated home game against Dublin, does this mean that Dublin will play all their super 8 games in Croker?

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 25/02/2019 10:04:32    2167863

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Replying To arock:  "No that is not true. If delegates voted for that they are mad, but it is not what was voted on, Donegal went at it all wrong and have ended up making the situation worse. The fundamental problem for the GAA is date receipts, they were down 2018 and they will be seriously down if Dublin are moved from Croke park this affects GAA revenue. BUT, maybe the GAA can throw us a few million and we will build a stadium 30+, but the GAA has blocked it time and again. Parnell Park is out of the question for Super 8s (just because Kildare are happy to play in a glorified car park doesn't mean we are)."
Not sure it is entirely gate receipts, its premium tickets and corporote boxes the match day revenue that creates, Tv deals etc all sold on the back of Dublin in Croke Park.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 25/02/2019 10:08:19    2167867

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Replying To gotmilk:  "If Kildare and Dublin are drawn in the same super eights group, with Kildares designated home game against Dublin, does this mean that Dublin will play all their super 8 games in Croker?"
If Kildare were forced to nominate a home venue that wasn't Conleths it'd nearly certainly be Tullamore, not Croker

Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 323 - 25/02/2019 10:20:54    2167875

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this whole thing stinks of a set up!!! three other delegates (Meath and wexford) got up and supported the GAA in allowing dublin play their neutral game in croke park!! why did they feel the need to stand up and support? yet not one delegate supported Donegals motion. yet i haven't spoken to any GAA person who hasn't at the very least questioned Dublins playing of neutral games in croke park. the rules aren't transparent. Kildare were being almost bullied into playing in croke park last year against Mayo until there was a mini revolt.
As for people making the point that if you're good enough to beat dublin you'll beat them in croke park and to stop making excuses. that doesn't stand up for me. playing at home is a massive advantage. even for Dublin (one of the best teams of a generation) any time they were caught or nearly caught has been away from croke park. thats a fact!!! fairness obviously doesn't come into it.

theweanling (Cavan) - Posts: 414 - 25/02/2019 10:59:29    2167899

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Replying To waynoI:  "
Replying To Kingdomson:  "As a Kerryman and being completely selfish, I'm more than happy to play Dublin all they want to in our national stadium of Croke Park and I actually prefer this. Moreover, Kerry have zero fear of playing Dublin in Croke Park or wherever but that's not what this issue is about. Although it would be fun if Dublin came down to Killarney some summer for a high stakes super 8 match (perhaps some day), and i still have those great memories of when we played the Dubs in Semple Stadium for a quarter final.

Leaving county allegiance aside and taking a helicopter view here, all this is really about money. 'Ah think, about the poor people and children who can't see the game' - really? How stupid does Costello think people are? Obviously, quite stupid. This is all about bringing more money in for the GAA at the end of the day and nothing to do with fairness.

At least a true blue Dub like Paddy Cullen can admit it's an unfair advantage and I think most decent and honest people can all agree it's an unfair advantage, despite the crowing on these boards. I think Mayo's Kevin McStay put it well.

McStay dismissed the notion that playing a big championship game in the 9,000-capacity Parnell Park would see too many supporters miss out.

"What happens if Halifax Town are playing Manchester United in round six of the FA Cup?" he argued. "There's live TV now. Nobody will not get to see the game."

Your right Kevin but think of all that money that would be missed out on. Greed is number one and fairness is an after thought.

PS: Congress, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, to hell with fairness, vote against this and we'll look after you, sort you out with a grant or what not."
I agree its an unfair advantage, its absolute b****x mate BUT 64% of county delegates voted against changing that advantage and i cant get my head around it. Its like a vegan sitting in a restaurant eating a steak, drinking a glass of milk wearing sheep skin coat. It goes completely against what they believe and makes hypocrites of the whole lot. Nonsense."
It is exactly that. Turkeys voting for Christmas. There is an incentive for them. Wonder what that could be?

Gator (Monaghan) - Posts: 238 - 25/02/2019 11:49:17    2167925

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Even Joe Brolly backing what they were saying about it being a mean spirited motion by Donegal..Its very annoying how they have changed the whole thing from any County not playing a neutral game in there designated home stadium. like no one would think it fair for, IF Mayo got to the super 8s, to play in Mchale park twice. it had nothing to do with getting Dublin out of croke park or not having it as there home stadium, everyone has accepted that.
How can any team play a neutral venue game in there home pitch its so obvious..

tommy132 (Mayo) - Posts: 601 - 25/02/2019 12:58:35    2167969

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Replying To theweanling:  "this whole thing stinks of a set up!!! three other delegates (Meath and wexford) got up and supported the GAA in allowing dublin play their neutral game in croke park!! why did they feel the need to stand up and support? yet not one delegate supported Donegals motion. yet i haven't spoken to any GAA person who hasn't at the very least questioned Dublins playing of neutral games in croke park. the rules aren't transparent. Kildare were being almost bullied into playing in croke park last year against Mayo until there was a mini revolt.
As for people making the point that if you're good enough to beat dublin you'll beat them in croke park and to stop making excuses. that doesn't stand up for me. playing at home is a massive advantage. even for Dublin (one of the best teams of a generation) any time they were caught or nearly caught has been away from croke park. thats a fact!!! fairness obviously doesn't come into it."
Wexford and Meath will have skin in the game on this issue as will Kildare ironically. If Dublin decline in football and Meath and Kildare win Leinsters and start playing S8's games, i don think its impossible that maybe their home games could be in Croker as well, both used Croke Park regularly when they were going for All Irelands. Wexford to, its not that long ago since they were in a Leinster final in football and they have the pedigree in Hurling too. So i can understand some Leinster counties not backing the motion.

For what its worth i agree with the popular narrative Dublin shouldn't get two games in Croke park. I'm curious to see though will anything be done, to circumvent congress. I mean in the last year Kildare had a go at the administration and garnered public support successfully. Surely the same thing could happen here.

Sadly i think it will die a death now and only come up again during the S8's when some unfortunate county is on a good run and realise there is a disadvantage in their group.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 25/02/2019 13:23:27    2167980

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Fact is when the top people I in the GAA see Dublin what they really see is €€€€€€€ not Dublin's fault,
However I think that most Dubs would love to see the county getting a ground that they can call ''home'' rather than use Croker for league games and home championship matches just look at Saturday night 35000 looked lost in Croke Park could you imagine the atmosphere if that crowd had been in a ground the size of Clones.
I don't think Dublin would fear anyone no matter where the match is played and the fans are always up for the trips and the craic.
So rather than other counties trying to take Dublin out of Croke Park I think Dublin Gaa should start moves to redevelop Parnell park or sell it on and build a new ground to suit their needs

redbomb (Tyrone) - Posts: 167 - 25/02/2019 13:59:59    2167996

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Replying To waynoI:  "Unbelievable.

You couldn't make it up.

There are literally no words.

id have been absolutely amazed if it was 60/40 in favour of Dublin not using Croke Park as their "home venue" , because id have expected it to be about 80/20 in favour of it, But for it to be 64/36 THE OTHER WAY ROUND has blown my head to smiderines.

As usual, we will play where we are told, and as supporters we will go where we are told.

Not our fault.

This was the countries chance to take one of the advantages away and they didn't do it.

That's it now, People have not got a leg to stand on. Its done.

You got what you voted for.

suck it up"
Money talks more like.

Barnowl94 (Galway) - Posts: 3150 - 25/02/2019 14:23:05    2168015

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Replying To Joxer:  "I don't know. Maybe put it to a vote at congress. It's a democracy afterall."
Democracy? Sham democracy more like.

Barnowl94 (Galway) - Posts: 3150 - 25/02/2019 14:29:02    2168023

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Transparency

It would be good to see how each county representative voted and the reasoning behind each vote.

I just turn up to games and support like many if you

The politics of the association baffles me.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 25/02/2019 16:37:16    2168073

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Transparency

It would be good to see how each county representative voted and the reasoning behind each vote.

I just turn up to games and support like many if you

The politics of the association baffles me."
Revealing the demographs of the vote would be pointless. No delegate is going to admit that they were advised to vote for the motion the night before the vote on the grounds that there would be financial consequences as a result of their voting for the donegal motion. Instead we are stuck with a lame narrative about 'not being scared to play the dubs in their own back yard'. Very disappointing and misleading in general. Dublin players or supporters have no say in this. Nor do most of the very many gaa members on the ground. Its now out of the control of grass roots.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 25/02/2019 17:08:57    2168083

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Replying To Donegalman:  "Revealing the demographs of the vote would be pointless. No delegate is going to admit that they were advised to vote for the motion the night before the vote on the grounds that there would be financial consequences as a result of their voting for the donegal motion. Instead we are stuck with a lame narrative about 'not being scared to play the dubs in their own back yard'. Very disappointing and misleading in general. Dublin players or supporters have no say in this. Nor do most of the very many gaa members on the ground. Its now out of the control of grass roots."
In fairness though the Donegal motion still would have given Dublin two Super 8 games at home. 1 in Parnell and 1 in Croker.

To be fair to the delegates it's easy enough to see why they'd vote that down, it doesn't make it anymore equal and it decreases revenue.

It was a silly motion.

There should have been a motion to make sure every team that qualifies for the Super 8s gets one game at home, one away and one at neutral venue outside their own county boundaries. It's very hard to argue against a motion like that.

But the Donegal motion made it really easy to vote against as it decreased revenue for nothing.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 25/02/2019 18:09:43    2168101

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Replying To Donegalman:  "Revealing the demographs of the vote would be pointless. No delegate is going to admit that they were advised to vote for the motion the night before the vote on the grounds that there would be financial consequences as a result of their voting for the donegal motion. Instead we are stuck with a lame narrative about 'not being scared to play the dubs in their own back yard'. Very disappointing and misleading in general. Dublin players or supporters have no say in this. Nor do most of the very many gaa members on the ground. Its now out of the control of grass roots."
Grassroots is now just a much used cliche in the GAA. Only one motion of the 43 that got through was from a club/county, that speaks volume in itself. The CPA that represents club players posted a very direct response online to a claim made at Congress by John Horan, it would be great to see it clarified. The CPA were ridiculed in a very nasty manner last year publicly by delegates & they aren't even recognised by the GAA, that also speaks volumes. Either they are in or there not, if not, there isn't much point in being a GAA member, join a sport that will recognise its membership base. Even the GPA golden boys got a couple of smack downs by delegates this year. How many delegates don't vote as per direction by their county ("the grassroots") we don't know as they voted the motion on transparency down by 84%. Only those who have something to hide in life fear transparency. The Director General gave us the usual cliche we have been hearing from the top two officials in the Association this weekend about clubs being the centre of the GAA, yet they have created an U20 Inter County league, allowed U 20 players play both U20 & Senior, created extra C'ship games through the Super 8's, have relaxed the rule & punishment on the training camp farce we saw this year where the dog ate my homework excuses were believed, failed to reply to the CPA proposals on fixture scheduling, it's all empty rhetoric from the top two officials past & present in the last two years.
Grassroots was never so far from having an input into the GAA, power is now concentrated to a chosen few in Croke Park & Central Council level. People are now so disllusioned by the political shenanigans that they don't want to engage or take part & this is felt right the way down to local level. You reap what you sow.

Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 25/02/2019 19:14:39    2168123

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1 reason
Grab
All
Association
GAA enough said

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 25/02/2019 19:57:56    2168138

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Is there any plans for Dublin to develop a 30,000capacity stadium?
croke park must be loosing money if theres less than 30,000 at games
is there not a need for such a stadium with dublins growing population

rhudson (Galway) - Posts: 1478 - 25/02/2019 20:10:40    2168141

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