Carlow Forum

Footballers 2019 Season

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Replying To fergie:  "Obviously the management can never win. You're saying that a lad only brought in recently got game time ahead of others while another poster says that he should have been brought in to the game earlier, otherwise what was the point of bringing him in to the panel. To be fair I do see both sides when it comes to something like that."
Kilkenny do it in hurling... all successful managers are ruthless.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 280 - 10/06/2019 13:25:22    2192860

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Novalis, you make some good points and observations in your post.
I agree we need fresh coaching ideas at this stage.

There's something we all forget - that the management are closest to the overall situation. As in training, attendance, attitude, off the field behavior etc.

They can only pick the team they feel will do the job. I am sure they go out to win every game. Last year it worked '- defensively we were strong, promoted, we scored 4-31 in games vs Kildare and Louth.

This year we had very small margins that went against us. If we had Murphy, Murphy, Broderick slso maybe things would have been different.

Let's look forward to 2020 with new game plan and an additional group of younger players.

fullbach (Carlow) - Posts: 238 - 10/06/2019 13:57:52    2192908

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Replying To novalis:  "Frustrating yesterday. Everyone could do with a good rest...management players, even supporters.

It's been a tough 2019 with dropping back to Div 4 (so unlucky and some thanks to dodgy ref decisions) followed by the Down disaster and suspensions.
Injuries and indiscipline added to the woe!

Time to take stock now and I think the management should stay put. They are the best we have had in many years.
Poacher's initial influence paid major dividends and sorted our disastrous defensive record pre 2017 but maybe with need a different type of tactician now.
On a positive note we have a very decent U-20 side who have had some great wins and one narrow defeat - played without their Co Seniors (Conor Doyle, Morrissey etc.) who can now join the squad for the Leinster Championship on 22nd June in NCP.

Management to stay
Poacher to go
New coach with attack minded approach.
20 players need to take part in every game ...fresh legs.
5/6 younger players to be brought through now.
As many challenge games as possible leading to O Byrne Cup. 2020"
Any other u20s on panel apart from Morrissey and Doyle do you know

hogg (Carlow) - Posts: 309 - 10/06/2019 14:08:16    2192916

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No idea what some posters have been looking at for 20 years but ill summarise it.

Before Poacher we are bottom 3 in country, with Poacher we are Division 3 standard.

Hope he can be convinced to stay on as we will be lost without him.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 988 - 10/06/2019 14:30:42    2192934

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Replying To carlovia:  "No idea what some posters have been looking at for 20 years but ill summarise it.

Before Poacher we are bottom 3 in country, with Poacher we are Division 3 standard.

Hope he can be convinced to stay on as we will be lost without him."
Agree with the above. Facts are facts

Hometown45 (Carlow) - Posts: 156 - 10/06/2019 14:45:05    2192940

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Replying To carlovia:  "No idea what some posters have been looking at for 20 years but ill summarise it.

Before Poacher we are bottom 3 in country, with Poacher we are Division 3 standard.

Hope he can be convinced to stay on as we will be lost without him."
I'd have to agree - if possible, Poacher should be retained - a combination of bad luck, over cautious management, and a rake of suspensions, injuries etc meant a poor year. It is small margins. To say we should become more attack-orientated is all well and good and is great for the Sunday Game commentators living in old God's time, but most counties bar Dublin / Kerry do not have natural forwards in abundance. Also he seems to very positive for morale within the squad and has a clear coaching philosophy, which like it or hate it made us hard to beat, improved our competitiveness and saw us promoted. Where will a coach come from that will get the most out of our shallow talent pool ?

Maybe a freshening up of the selectors would help things? Also some retirements are probable so that will advance the case for some of the younger players. A positive focus is crucial and with the proper structures, we should be competitive for promotion. Lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Bainisteoir (National) - Posts: 454 - 10/06/2019 14:55:36    2192952

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Yeah I'd be careful what you wish for, the county board has a terrible track record when it comes to appointing managers, we have a good management team they didn't become bad over night, that's not to say I agree with everything they have done but after two good years to just dump them on the basis of a few bad games seems very harsh and reactionary.

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1253 - 10/06/2019 15:50:33    2193002

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Replying To Barrowsider:  "Yeah I'd be careful what you wish for, the county board has a terrible track record when it comes to appointing managers, we have a good management team they didn't become bad over night, that's not to say I agree with everything they have done but after two good years to just dump them on the basis of a few bad games seems very harsh and reactionary."
Carlow's heads and hearts were at an all-time low going into the Meath game hence the result, they were mentally drained and physically flat, the fallout from the Down game played havoc, in fairness I think management and team simply went through the motions, yesterday included. The suspensions handed out were to say the least, draconian, ruthless and without any degree of fairness, I've said it here before by all means hand out the suspensions, like 3 months each, 4 months each, or 5 months each but by hand picking Turlough O'Brien and dishing out 5 months to him only made him a scape goat. If I was T O'B I would walk away from Carlow football with chin up and chest out, if he was to stay on as Carlow manager and failed to get Carlow out of div.4 he would be lambasted from all directions, it would end up being his fault for them dropping down to div. 4, he is in fact in a no win situation.

Referees can write the rules as they go along, they are in fact answerable to no one so until that changes situations like this will most likely happen again and again and again.

I have rarely heard a more muted Carlow following in a long long time, the stand was sort of full, after that there was a sprinkling of supporters here and there, I've seen more at club semi-finals, is it any wonder.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 1949 - 10/06/2019 16:46:58    2193048

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Replying To supersub15:  "Carlow's heads and hearts were at an all-time low going into the Meath game hence the result, they were mentally drained and physically flat, the fallout from the Down game played havoc, in fairness I think management and team simply went through the motions, yesterday included. The suspensions handed out were to say the least, draconian, ruthless and without any degree of fairness, I've said it here before by all means hand out the suspensions, like 3 months each, 4 months each, or 5 months each but by hand picking Turlough O'Brien and dishing out 5 months to him only made him a scape goat. If I was T O'B I would walk away from Carlow football with chin up and chest out, if he was to stay on as Carlow manager and failed to get Carlow out of div.4 he would be lambasted from all directions, it would end up being his fault for them dropping down to div. 4, he is in fact in a no win situation.

Referees can write the rules as they go along, they are in fact answerable to no one so until that changes situations like this will most likely happen again and again and again.

I have rarely heard a more muted Carlow following in a long long time, the stand was sort of full, after that there was a sprinkling of supporters here and there, I've seen more at club semi-finals, is it any wonder."
Was Turloughs a longer ban due to a previous incident/ban? Thinks bit not 100% sure.
Before I say anymore I want to compliment all the lads including management for what they commit year on year. Turlough and Tommy are hard-core passionate carlow football people and have an interest in all levels of football in the county. Benji also has given a huge amount to club and county and a decent man - known him since school. While Stephen poacher has added a lot to the dynamic and it did give us a 2 year kick, I don't like how it conducts himself on the sideline - I don't think it helps us but that's just me. The mark of great coaches is adapting and rebuilding and that's possibly what we need to do now. I do think our tactics don't work as they did and why not look to change these or personal? Someone mentioned about playing football to win and not to please the Sunday game lads. Well the honest supporters that I spoke to on the terrace yesterday are being turned off by this style/lack of change. The lads who come into games through thick and thin. And while the defensive is all well and good, the simple facts of the matter are that the 6 Longford backs kicked 1 3 from play yesterday and set up more scores by being allowed forward because of our forwards dropping back. This is more than our forward line. Their team hit 16 wides also. I know we were missing broderick, the 2 Murphys, and 2 members of the management team but 4/5 were missing due to their own actions. Simple. That's not slating them, or anything personal. I am not one for looking for a management change as the only ultimate solution, but I do think we need a shake up in terms of blooding new players and looking at a change of system even with the players/management team we have - fresh players and maybe another voice in the backroom team. We are back in div 4 albeit because of narrow defeats etc but that's where we are. Can't look back, only forward! So I hope they regroup as a group and use the next few months to change things up and don't let slip all the good work they have put into it themselves.

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2588 - 10/06/2019 18:40:13    2193122

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Replying To hogg:  "Any other u20s on panel apart from Morrissey and Doyle do you know"
Robbie kane was in..got a bad break in his wrist training in fenagh. Had operation last week. B lucky to play club football this year I'd say

Carlow12345 (Carlow) - Posts: 21 - 10/06/2019 20:01:48    2193165

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Div 3 was the focus this year and rightly so. The manner of our relegation and the criminality that was seen in DCP the day of the Down game took its inevitable toll.
Everyone concerned deserves great credit for the football produced over the last couple years. My hope is that everyone sticks together and comes back fresh in 2020.
#keepthepoacher

MOH (Carlow) - Posts: 121 - 10/06/2019 22:18:12    2193243

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Replying To Carlow12345:  "Robbie kane was in..got a bad break in his wrist training in fenagh. Had operation last week. B lucky to play club football this year I'd say"
That's a shame.speedy recovery to him.

hogg (Carlow) - Posts: 309 - 11/06/2019 00:22:23    2193291

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Replying To MOH:  "Div 3 was the focus this year and rightly so. The manner of our relegation and the criminality that was seen in DCP the day of the Down game took its inevitable toll.
Everyone concerned deserves great credit for the football produced over the last couple years. My hope is that everyone sticks together and comes back fresh in 2020.
#keepthepoacher"
I wouldn't have a problem with poacher/O'Brien staying on, they have done a great job, but to many times the lack of a plan b and loyalty to certain players has cost us games. Yes we were unlucky with injuries, bans and decisions going against us but from the team selection on Sunday it was obvious to most that we were not going to score anywhere near enough to win the game. If the lads can mix up the game plan and at lest give some of the younger lads some decent game time I'd be happy for them to stay but I can't see that happening.

dcarlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 145 - 11/06/2019 09:16:12    2193338

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I just can't inagine if we had so many good young lads they wouldn't be getting their chance. If you look at it over last two years Conor Doyle 18. Started. Morrissey 18 started. Maybe these young lads aren't showing enough to warrant playing. And again our history in under age lately wouldn't set your pulse racing. We haven't had competitive team at the business end of the year since 2007 probably.

Hometown45 (Carlow) - Posts: 156 - 11/06/2019 11:11:29    2193399

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Replying To Hometown45:  "I just can't inagine if we had so many good young lads they wouldn't be getting their chance. If you look at it over last two years Conor Doyle 18. Started. Morrissey 18 started. Maybe these young lads aren't showing enough to warrant playing. And again our history in under age lately wouldn't set your pulse racing. We haven't had competitive team at the business end of the year since 2007 probably."
another point is the level of physical conditioning players need for senior level. Morrissey looks to be the part, however Doyle still needs to 'fill out', but will make a fine senior player, as was his father. There is nothing wrong with lads serving an 'apprenticeship', but where deserving, get game time.

Bainisteoir (National) - Posts: 454 - 11/06/2019 15:33:53    2193541

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Replying To Hometown45:  "I just can't inagine if we had so many good young lads they wouldn't be getting their chance. If you look at it over last two years Conor Doyle 18. Started. Morrissey 18 started. Maybe these young lads aren't showing enough to warrant playing. And again our history in under age lately wouldn't set your pulse racing. We haven't had competitive team at the business end of the year since 2007 probably."
Maybe they arent getting their chance? Sure what chance will they get sitting on a bench watching same old people on the pitch. No point bringing people into a squad training 3 to 4 times a week giving up all other sports for them to never get a run.

Carlow12345 (Carlow) - Posts: 21 - 11/06/2019 17:20:10    2193593

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Replying To old yellar:  "Was Turloughs a longer ban due to a previous incident/ban? Thinks bit not 100% sure.
Before I say anymore I want to compliment all the lads including management for what they commit year on year. Turlough and Tommy are hard-core passionate carlow football people and have an interest in all levels of football in the county. Benji also has given a huge amount to club and county and a decent man - known him since school. While Stephen poacher has added a lot to the dynamic and it did give us a 2 year kick, I don't like how it conducts himself on the sideline - I don't think it helps us but that's just me. The mark of great coaches is adapting and rebuilding and that's possibly what we need to do now. I do think our tactics don't work as they did and why not look to change these or personal? Someone mentioned about playing football to win and not to please the Sunday game lads. Well the honest supporters that I spoke to on the terrace yesterday are being turned off by this style/lack of change. The lads who come into games through thick and thin. And while the defensive is all well and good, the simple facts of the matter are that the 6 Longford backs kicked 1 3 from play yesterday and set up more scores by being allowed forward because of our forwards dropping back. This is more than our forward line. Their team hit 16 wides also. I know we were missing broderick, the 2 Murphys, and 2 members of the management team but 4/5 were missing due to their own actions. Simple. That's not slating them, or anything personal. I am not one for looking for a management change as the only ultimate solution, but I do think we need a shake up in terms of blooding new players and looking at a change of system even with the players/management team we have - fresh players and maybe another voice in the backroom team. We are back in div 4 albeit because of narrow defeats etc but that's where we are. Can't look back, only forward! So I hope they regroup as a group and use the next few months to change things up and don't let slip all the good work they have put into it themselves."
Sobering post, albeit food for thought.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 1949 - 11/06/2019 17:56:10    2193606

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Replying To dcarlowman:  "According to a well known bookie Carlow are 2nd favorites for relegation. I can see Carlow being more that competitive in this division. A win against Sligo wold be a huge boost. I think we have Sligo longford, Louth and Down at home, with Westmeath Offaly and Laois away, win 3 of those and that should keep us in the division which were more than capable of."
I've said this before on here but they train three or 4 times a week. Assume play games in training. Practice matches. but if managemt felt they would help the side win a game I'm sure they'd play them. I've also said before that they obviously pick the team on what they see in training and how these fellas conduct themselves on and off the field.and if they aren't doing it in training etc I can't imagine how they deserve a shot in games. It's lile that with club sides so I'm sure it's the same with a county. Jim Gavin always talking about picking lads who perform well on training field. So I also assume this applies to fellas like gahan as was mentioned earlier. Co management are in a results business. They will Be trying to win every game. I hope this is the case anyway.

Hometown45 (Carlow) - Posts: 156 - 11/06/2019 18:09:36    2193615

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Replying To Hometown45:  "I've said this before on here but they train three or 4 times a week. Assume play games in training. Practice matches. but if managemt felt they would help the side win a game I'm sure they'd play them. I've also said before that they obviously pick the team on what they see in training and how these fellas conduct themselves on and off the field.and if they aren't doing it in training etc I can't imagine how they deserve a shot in games. It's lile that with club sides so I'm sure it's the same with a county. Jim Gavin always talking about picking lads who perform well on training field. So I also assume this applies to fellas like gahan as was mentioned earlier. Co management are in a results business. They will Be trying to win every game. I hope this is the case anyway."
All well and good except that we are watching players picked over and over again who do not deliver or don't even look like delivering. Are the vast majority of supporters who know the players well all wrong. Not I my opinion and if you're being honest you must see it too.

hogg (Carlow) - Posts: 309 - 11/06/2019 23:20:07    2193748

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Replying To Hometown45:  "I've said this before on here but they train three or 4 times a week. Assume play games in training. Practice matches. but if managemt felt they would help the side win a game I'm sure they'd play them. I've also said before that they obviously pick the team on what they see in training and how these fellas conduct themselves on and off the field.and if they aren't doing it in training etc I can't imagine how they deserve a shot in games. It's lile that with club sides so I'm sure it's the same with a county. Jim Gavin always talking about picking lads who perform well on training field. So I also assume this applies to fellas like gahan as was mentioned earlier. Co management are in a results business. They will Be trying to win every game. I hope this is the case anyway."
So are you saying that a certain forward that started on Sunday is getting so much game time because of his performance in training? He must be some lad to train if that's the case because his performance on Sunday and other games would leave a lot of questions. None of us know what happens in training but at the end of the day if a lad is consistently not performing you drop him. There a couple of players this could be said for.

dcarlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 145 - 12/06/2019 09:17:18    2193810

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