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Pairc Ui Chaoimh And That Twenty Five Million Overspend

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Cork CB should throw whatever little money they have left and do the Euromillions tomorrow night.. it's €140 million..! that should just about cover things and they might be even able to bounce a ball on the pitch!

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 19282 - 07/02/2019 09:33:53    2163136

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Sorry you are deluded !!

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1535 - 07/02/2019 09:48:11    2163138

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Replying To Culchie:  "Anybody who thinks Cork has a population of 125,000 probably thinks that Dublin has a population of 800,000. The population of cities is usually measured by urban area (commuter belt really). Cork's is close to 500k, Dublin about 1.5 million. In both cases (and in the case of Belfast) the city boroughs (five in Dublin) are much, much, smaller. Greater Cork is actually quite close to Greater Belfast (about 600k I think) in size and has been gaining on it for many years. Still smaller though, so I accept yoour point that it is the third city on the island.

My point is that Ireland has more than one substantial urban area. Dublin, Cork and Belfast would all be considered sizeable cities in global terms. Dublin would even be considered a big city. It is probably even among the top 2-300 cities in the world. Cities of Cork's size regularly have stadiums of the Park's size. You only have to drive through England to see that."
But that's not the point. The point is, is that Cork GAA decided to built a sports venue that is only that, and not a very good one. This is a small country that we live in, so shared resources are a must. Building a venue that will be full once ??? a year is borderline negligent in these times? All the top venues have year round facilities, whether it be on the pitch, back of house etc. but PUC it seems have none of these to an acceptable standard. Sure it will look good on Munster Final day, but when it is taking away monies that should be spent of club facilities, coaches etc. to pay for this is not on and should not be acceptable.

Whoever sanctioned this, and then followed on through with the construction should be held accountable. I'm sick thinking about it....

Termon (Tyrone) - Posts: 56 - 07/02/2019 09:48:32    2163139

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According to the recent census of 2016 Cork has a population of 120,000 , it is Ireland's 3rd city and deserves a decent stadium..... but this is a vanity project, All of us from Donegal to Wicklow and from Dublin to Galway will have to pick up the pieces of a very poorly thought out project which has gone grossly over budget...

Munster needs a fine stadium which can host matches and that should be Thurles which can host matches we all can get to....

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1535 - 07/02/2019 10:42:03    2163144

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Replying To cuchulainn35:  "According to the recent census of 2016 Cork has a population of 120,000 , it is Ireland's 3rd city and deserves a decent stadium..... but this is a vanity project, All of us from Donegal to Wicklow and from Dublin to Galway will have to pick up the pieces of a very poorly thought out project which has gone grossly over budget...

Munster needs a fine stadium which can host matches and that should be Thurles which can host matches we all can get to...."
It's Ireland's second city. It's the Island of Ireland's 3rd city. Northern Ireland and Ireland are separate and long may it continue. 2 fine countries living side by side in peace.
Thurles is only one aspect of Munster GAA. Limerick and Cork are just as special on Munster final days and their cities offer unique weekends that Thurles doesn't.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1102 - 07/02/2019 11:40:30    2163158

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Wow!! Bloodyban
I would like to thank you for your insight!!
Obviously a partitionist !! What do you call me!!

My point lost in your poor geographical understanding is that as a small city of 125,000 there is no need for a 130 million stadium.
We in Armagh City have a modest ground that we are proud of . It holds 19,000 and that is sufficient,
We didn't say ' Ah let's build a ground that takes in 1 hour of Armagh - a million.
Navan could do the same, so too Louth, but
The people of Armagh and Meath understand that a venue of modest proportions makes more sense....
The white elephant in Cork, hasn't been full yet!!!!!

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1535 - 07/02/2019 12:20:50    2163173

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Replying To cuchulainn35:  "Wow!! Bloodyban
I would like to thank you for your insight!!
Obviously a partitionist !! What do you call me!!

My point lost in your poor geographical understanding is that as a small city of 125,000 there is no need for a 130 million stadium.
We in Armagh City have a modest ground that we are proud of . It holds 19,000 and that is sufficient,
We didn't say ' Ah let's build a ground that takes in 1 hour of Armagh - a million.
Navan could do the same, so too Louth, but
The people of Armagh and Meath understand that a venue of modest proportions makes more sense....
The white elephant in Cork, hasn't been full yet!!!!!"
That is not true, it sold out for the singer Ed Sheeran. It was a great event. So more spin from you.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1554 - 07/02/2019 14:31:19    2163220

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I heard that Cork are to stage an annual event. It's to be staged in PUC. The Ploughing Championships :-)

Coopers_Helmet (Tipperary) - Posts: 92 - 07/02/2019 14:47:18    2163228

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Replying To cuchulainn35:  "According to the recent census of 2016 Cork has a population of 120,000 , it is Ireland's 3rd city and deserves a decent stadium..... but this is a vanity project, All of us from Donegal to Wicklow and from Dublin to Galway will have to pick up the pieces of a very poorly thought out project which has gone grossly over budget...

Munster needs a fine stadium which can host matches and that should be Thurles which can host matches we all can get to...."
To be fair, that figure is actually from the 2011 census, there was a 4.6% increase in the five years between 2011 and 2016. And that figure is just for the Cork City Council administered area, not the greater urban area including suburbs. And that City border is actually changing, so the current City administered pop is increasing from 125,000 to 210,000.

All the above is a bit pedantic anyway, its a decent city, as of course is Belfast. Pairc Ui Chaoimh had to be redeveloped anyway, it couldn't go on as it was. However, that doesn't excuse the clear mis-mangement of the redevelopment project, the overspend, and problems with the end product. I hope they can sort it out, but that pitch looks like a big problem that'll require alot of work.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1730 - 07/02/2019 15:51:46    2163247

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Replying To cuchulainn35:  "Wow!! Bloodyban
I would like to thank you for your insight!!
Obviously a partitionist !! What do you call me!!

My point lost in your poor geographical understanding is that as a small city of 125,000 there is no need for a 130 million stadium.
We in Armagh City have a modest ground that we are proud of . It holds 19,000 and that is sufficient,
We didn't say ' Ah let's build a ground that takes in 1 hour of Armagh - a million.
Navan could do the same, so too Louth, but
The people of Armagh and Meath understand that a venue of modest proportions makes more sense....
The white elephant in Cork, hasn't been full yet!!!!!"
Armagh is a city in words alone. It has a population akin to a big town. Why would you compare Corks need for a stadium to Armagh? Two totally different places in terms of scale. There are issues with the build, but of course you would have a large stadium in one of the largest cities.

Now talking about not filling it only once a year is pointless too. Croke Park is only full once or twice a year. I think the stadiums should be more multi purpose. You could open up to other sports but then gaels won't be happy with that either. So unless you want to have a situation where each county have an allocation of around 3000 for all big games including all Ireland finals, you will have half empty stadiums most of the year.

BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 127 - 07/02/2019 17:06:47    2163260

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Apart from the shocking pitch. TV viewers can't see the white sliothar due the banks of exposed light grey terracing each end of pitch. Maybe if they managed to fill the stadium it might not be an issue.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4003 - 07/02/2019 18:11:30    2163282

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Replying To cuchulainn35:  "According to the recent census of 2016 Cork has a population of 120,000 , it is Ireland's 3rd city and deserves a decent stadium..... but this is a vanity project, All of us from Donegal to Wicklow and from Dublin to Galway will have to pick up the pieces of a very poorly thought out project which has gone grossly over budget...

Munster needs a fine stadium which can host matches and that should be Thurles which can host matches we all can get to...."
And London has a population of 10,000. So Cork is actually 12 times the size of London!! Never knew that. Or maybe the 9 odd million that live in Greater London make that urban area almost twenty times the size of Cork. Which is the more accurate measure, do you think?

Anyway, as I've said, I tend to agree with most posters. Again, I was one of very few who agreed with Donal Og when he first raised this on TSG. I seem to remember the overwhelming consensus on here was " How dare he?" But, it's built now. However many ways the money might have been better spent, it was spent on this. We need to make the most of it.

And I disagree that:


1. The right place for a stadium of this size was somewhere around Portlaoise off the M7. For all the reasons outlined, Cork is more than big enough to support a stadium of this size, if the stadium id properly run.


2. The stadium is in wrong part of Cork. This can certainly be argued, but my opinion is that it is one of the most beautiful stadium settings in the country. Walking down the old tree lined Centre Park Road, leading down to the Blackrock Quay, with one of the world's greatest harbour's stretching out beyond Blackrodk Castle and the houses of the merchant princes gazing down on you from Montenotte. Where else would one get such a sense of history or beauty? And I don't agree that it's not accessible. It is, to the congregation of morons that try to drive down CPR and park along the side on Munster final day. But that's just one route in. There's also Monaghan Road, Blackrock Road, Dundannion, Ballinlough, the railway line from Mahon - a myriad of routes, all of which provide car parking about 30 minutes walk from the ground. I have often walked just as far when parking in Thurles, Limerick, or Dublin. The area has a long history of sport. Indeed the ground was known as the Park (or in more recent years the 'Pairc') because it was a huge Park on the edge of the city. Hence the name 'Centre Park Road' - that road ran through the centre of the Park, before the Ford plant was built on it. Now you can argue that it should have been built up around Glanmore so it could be accessed from the motorway and have extensive parking all around it. But do we really want to follow the American model of building souless stadiums in tarmac parks miles from town, just so as they can sell all the booze in the stadium itself. Maybe. But I prefer a thirty minute walk from an old city centre aound which the fans are gathered in groups. I prefer it in Limerick and Dublin too.

Culchie (Cork) - Posts: 798 - 07/02/2019 18:52:06    2163297

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I agree Culchie , it's in a beautiful setting and although you have probably been there far more times than me , but I think you have overstated ' one of the finest harbours in the world' bit !!!!
Cork needs a decent stadium, I've always said that,
The GAA in Cork needs a stadium,
But was this value for money - No!
Will every other GAA unit be affected - Yes
When we the GAA grass roots see the massive over spend, the awful pitch, questions have to be asked, this isn't just a Cork problem it's a national problem, all 32 counties are going to be affected !!!!

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1535 - 07/02/2019 21:47:06    2163333

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Replying To cuchulainn35:  "I agree Culchie , it's in a beautiful setting and although you have probably been there far more times than me , but I think you have overstated ' one of the finest harbours in the world' bit !!!!
Cork needs a decent stadium, I've always said that,
The GAA in Cork needs a stadium,
But was this value for money - No!
Will every other GAA unit be affected - Yes
When we the GAA grass roots see the massive over spend, the awful pitch, questions have to be asked, this isn't just a Cork problem it's a national problem, all 32 counties are going to be affected !!!!"
How dare you question Cork's magnifcent harbour. It is the second largest natural harbour in the World!!!! Never mind that it's one of about five that claim that title, or even that I myself have been to others (like San Francisco) that don't, but perhaps should. By volume of water, navigable area, number of ducks, or whatever you're having yourself. IT IS THE SECOND LARGEST HARBOUR:)

But seriously, I agree almost entirely with your main point. In my opinion this was a vanity project from day one. Some CCB lads went to Dublin and decided they'd try and ape Croke Park. The moeny would have been much better spent on grass-roots hurling and football, especially in the city where it looks like proportionate participation in those sports is falling. Money should also have been spent on the IC underage structures where Cork have been uttery pathetic for far too long.

Questions should have been asked about CCB a long long time ago. The striking hurlers rasied those questions in the early noughties only to be castigated by GAA people in other counties, after things just got far too nasty. In the end , the hurlers backed down and nobody since has had the courage to raise those issues again. Donal Og occasionally states his opinion of CCB and is usually braned an 'attention seeker' or worse.


Cork GAA people ended up having to wait the board out. And we've been mostly successful in that. I genuinely belive that many of the executive now in place are far more efficient than waht came before them. Look at how this was handled. There was no cover up. No statement blaming Davey Fitz or the media. There was an immediate acknowledgemnt that it wasn't good enough and that all games would be moved tp Pairc UI Rinn. A marked change in tone. Hopefully, the young guns now on the board can sort this mess out. And hopefully the rest of Ireland (to who we will be indebted) will be repaid in spades. When the Corkhurling hype machine starts to roll, e could be in for record attendances. And Cork hurling is finally beginning to show signs of life at underage level. Now for the football!


The stadium is there now. It's a fine stadium and the city is big enough to sustain it. We really have no option but to get on with running it. It's that or demolish it.

Culchie (Cork) - Posts: 798 - 07/02/2019 22:31:47    2163351

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When some of the delegates of a particular county board slammed & dismissed the motion on transparency to Congress last year & you then watch particular events unfold afterwards, you then realise why.

Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 08/02/2019 00:05:46    2163364

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Replying To Culchie:  "How dare you question Cork's magnifcent harbour. It is the second largest natural harbour in the World!!!! Never mind that it's one of about five that claim that title, or even that I myself have been to others (like San Francisco) that don't, but perhaps should. By volume of water, navigable area, number of ducks, or whatever you're having yourself. IT IS THE SECOND LARGEST HARBOUR:)

But seriously, I agree almost entirely with your main point. In my opinion this was a vanity project from day one. Some CCB lads went to Dublin and decided they'd try and ape Croke Park. The moeny would have been much better spent on grass-roots hurling and football, especially in the city where it looks like proportionate participation in those sports is falling. Money should also have been spent on the IC underage structures where Cork have been uttery pathetic for far too long.

Questions should have been asked about CCB a long long time ago. The striking hurlers rasied those questions in the early noughties only to be castigated by GAA people in other counties, after things just got far too nasty. In the end , the hurlers backed down and nobody since has had the courage to raise those issues again. Donal Og occasionally states his opinion of CCB and is usually braned an 'attention seeker' or worse.


Cork GAA people ended up having to wait the board out. And we've been mostly successful in that. I genuinely belive that many of the executive now in place are far more efficient than waht came before them. Look at how this was handled. There was no cover up. No statement blaming Davey Fitz or the media. There was an immediate acknowledgemnt that it wasn't good enough and that all games would be moved tp Pairc UI Rinn. A marked change in tone. Hopefully, the young guns now on the board can sort this mess out. And hopefully the rest of Ireland (to who we will be indebted) will be repaid in spades. When the Corkhurling hype machine starts to roll, e could be in for record attendances. And Cork hurling is finally beginning to show signs of life at underage level. Now for the football!


The stadium is there now. It's a fine stadium and the city is big enough to sustain it. We really have no option but to get on with running it. It's that or demolish it."
Original post said beautiful Harbour !!!!

In all seriousness aside it has gone 30 million over budget ( at least) and 30 million could do an awful lot for the following:-
Navan
Dundalk
Corrigan Park, Belfast
Slido
Mullingar
plus many others

Yes the size of the city and county should sustain Cork GAA but we all know that Cork GAA isn't well supported during the National League, the last time I went to Cork for a NFL game there was roughly 2,000 for an Cork v Armagh on an Easter Sunday ( when Armagh people have other things to do) and we roughly had about 1,200 of the supporters in a match we knew we would get hammered in!!!!

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1535 - 08/02/2019 09:28:22    2163396

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Replying To cuchulainn35:  "Original post said beautiful Harbour !!!!

In all seriousness aside it has gone 30 million over budget ( at least) and 30 million could do an awful lot for the following:-
Navan
Dundalk
Corrigan Park, Belfast
Slido
Mullingar
plus many others

Yes the size of the city and county should sustain Cork GAA but we all know that Cork GAA isn't well supported during the National League, the last time I went to Cork for a NFL game there was roughly 2,000 for an Cork v Armagh on an Easter Sunday ( when Armagh people have other things to do) and we roughly had about 1,200 of the supporters in a match we knew we would get hammered in!!!!"
Yeah, but hurling gets bigger crowds in Cork than football. I'm not sure what the attendance on Sunday was, but Corks home games in the league last year drew crowds of over 10,000 I believe. And in the new Munster hurling championship format round robin format, Cork get 2 Munster championship games a year. Last year, Corks home game against Limerick had an attendance of 35,000, and the home game against Waterford had an attendance of 25,000.

So just Corks home hurling games alone have the potential to bring big crowds to the stadium, before even considering Munster finals, AI quarter-finals etc

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1730 - 08/02/2019 14:58:06    2163471

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Replying To Marlon_JD:  "Yeah, but hurling gets bigger crowds in Cork than football. I'm not sure what the attendance on Sunday was, but Corks home games in the league last year drew crowds of over 10,000 I believe. And in the new Munster hurling championship format round robin format, Cork get 2 Munster championship games a year. Last year, Corks home game against Limerick had an attendance of 35,000, and the home game against Waterford had an attendance of 25,000.

So just Corks home hurling games alone have the potential to bring big crowds to the stadium, before even considering Munster finals, AI quarter-finals etc"
True that. Cork have had a terrible run in the hurling over the last decade or more. And the crowds are still decent. A bit of success has the potential to create a hype-machine akin to Munster rugby.

The probelm for hurling generally is that the new structure has kind of rendered the Leinster Championship redundant, in that Galway and KK are pretty much gauranteed annual qualification, and Wexford with them most other years. So attendances will fall drastically there. There are no such gaurantees in Munster, but winning the Championship itself is becoming increasingly pointless. I can see Cork, Tipp and other Munster fans basically waiting to see if they qualify for the AI series.


So Cork can boost hurling attendances massively (as can Limerick now that they've tasted success) but maximisation of that boost will require another re-structuring job and the loss of the provincial championships. I say drop the league and play group games from April to July. Two groups of five, home and away games against each other. Top two ONLY to qualify from each group. When only two qualify, every game is competitive. That way every stadium gets a turn. And if Cork and Tipp were to meet in a championship opener in April - they'd draw a crowd of 20 -30k, to Thurles or the Park. If they were to meet in a vital qualification game in June - it could be 40-50k.

Culchie (Cork) - Posts: 798 - 08/02/2019 17:09:09    2163504

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Cork are the only GAA county to have won a double in hurling and football in the same year. In 1990. It was a great achievement, that no one has matched yet. Slán

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1554 - 09/02/2019 11:28:06    2163653

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Cork won the double in 1890 and 1990, and Tipperary won the double in 1895 and 1900.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1223 - 09/02/2019 11:42:41    2163654

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