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Hurling Gets All The Plaudits But Is It Played Within The Rules?

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Hurling, Camogie have just been added to the UNESCO list of protected cultural activities so maybe outsiders appreciate it more than we do.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 3869 - 29/11/2018 11:10:04    2152809

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Replying To mayomanic:  "As we look forward to 2019 all the talk is centered on the football code and the recent rule changes. as always we'll have a mixture of good and bad, the good possibly being the offensive mark and limiting the hand pass with the bad having to go forward from a line ball and the sin bin (I just hate the sin bin in any sport including Rugby) it just leads to a lull in the game where most viewers are just hoping it ends without influencing the result of the game too much and without VAR it's a cop out for refs and it'll lead to much debate.

Hurling on the other hand gets all the plaudits but is the game played within the rules? I don't think so. Its common place now for players to take 7,8,9 steps in most situations, throwing the ball is now accepted by all refs, anything goes in the tackle and something needs to be done regarding the scoring zone. Why anyone would wish to play in the full back or full forward lines in hurling is beyond me as the ball just keeps going over their heads. Its not a skill any more to hit a ball from sixty, seventy yards over the crossbar and its ruining the game. where would the great inside forwards such as Nicky English, pat fox, jb murphy, noel lane, eddie brennan, tony doran, tomas mulcahy, joe deane etc fit in to the modern game today? and finally aside from croke park and maybe semple the smaller provincial pitches are not suitable for inter county hurling today.

when you pare it back and take away the crazy tackling (UFC with sticks) the overzealous and often embarrassing punditry of the likes of tommy walsh, micheal duighan and john mullane it's not what it's made out to be."
Seems to me your problem is not with the game of hurling but with officials not applying the rules, enthusiastic pundits, pitches and some other minor issues. Like all games it continues to evolve but the skill level and fitness of players is higher now than ever and the sliotar is lighter. It's a faster game hence two referees are needed and properly trained umpires and linesmen. But that's not the fault of the game of hurling.
The full back and full forward are redundant? Dáithí Burke and Shane O' Donnell spring to mind. What game were you looking at this year?

baire (Galway) - Posts: 511 - 29/11/2018 11:51:19    2152816

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I would not pay too much attention to Unesco. I think Gaelic football should have been added. Hurling really needs 2 refs or VAR in my opinion.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1286 - 29/11/2018 12:50:34    2152824

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A lot of rules not correctly applied.
- There is no legal way to hook a handpass. Yet we see handpasses hooked all the time.
- Steps rule never applied.
- Playing the man or hurl when a high ball is coming. KK are masters at it. As a result everyone tries to catch, which has sadly led to the extinction of the overhead pull
- Most handpasses are throws
- Pushing when a ball is on the ground is allowed meaning rucks are common. Yet pulling on a ball in a crowd would almost certainly be a free
- Lots of pulling of the arm and jersey
- As in football a group tackle will see a free given for overcarrying, even though often the player has not overcarried.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2208 - 29/11/2018 16:55:57    2152844

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Replying To icehonesty:  "A lot of rules not correctly applied.
- There is no legal way to hook a handpass. Yet we see handpasses hooked all the time.
- Steps rule never applied.
- Playing the man or hurl when a high ball is coming. KK are masters at it. As a result everyone tries to catch, which has sadly led to the extinction of the overhead pull
- Most handpasses are throws
- Pushing when a ball is on the ground is allowed meaning rucks are common. Yet pulling on a ball in a crowd would almost certainly be a free
- Lots of pulling of the arm and jersey
- As in football a group tackle will see a free given for overcarrying, even though often the player has not overcarried."
You got them all and for people to say that it is better to keep the game flowing and the referees would get lambasted is nonsense. Which rules do people want to let go selectively? Throw away the rule book completely and have a free for all in the interest of keeping the game flowing ? Let the player put the ball in his pocket and take it out when he gets close to goal ? These intelligent players read these inconsistencies and play up on them. Enforce the rules and they will stop committing the offences ( a good % of them ) pretty quick. The game would improve by controlling the third man tackle as rucks would not work anymore and enforcing the hand pass rule is obvious. The throwing would stop, the passer could be hit with a fair shoulder easier making him think twice as to where and when to use it. It maddens me when we try to think up new rules where as applying the existing ones would fix the few problems that exists Acting as if the referees won't get lambasted more with adding new rules.
We are lucky to have such great games and good discussion.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 407 - 29/11/2018 22:32:50    2152867

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Hurling is just one of those 'stand alone' sports. It's a game designed for war in a controlled environment. The passion runs deep. We should never compare our two great sports because as far as the outside observer is concerned, hurling will always catch the eye more than the big ball.
So yes, maybe things are 'let go' a little more in hurling, but I'd wager if you asked the players do they want to see change in that regard, there'd be a resounding no!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 7060 - 29/11/2018 23:03:22    2152868

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Only in this country would you have the best year of entertainment, skill, mix of games and a new all ireland winner and people still moan and complain. Sapose the original poster is from Mayo so moaning is compulsory. Some ridiculous comments here if the refs blew for every little thing there would be no flow to the game and become unwatchable like football. Even someone mentioned shin pads, give it a break. As for the commentary remark I much prefer listening to the lads than Joe Brolly, Pat Spillane and colm O rourke who are doin no good for the game at all. The only thing I do agree with here is the lack of teams competitive at the top table. A lot of county boards are at fault for this including my own who are a disgrace when it comes to Hurling.
But can we not sit back and be glad we just witnessed an amazing year for Hurling instead of the BS that's going on here.

hurlinglad15 (Meath) - Posts: 17 - 30/11/2018 07:51:56    2152877

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Love seeing all this discussion of hurling. Almost weird to read, Basically gone if not dead in most parts of Ulster. I have always felt detached from hurling even though it is a national sport because it is rarely mentioned never mind played up here. One or two strongholds left e.g. Derry and Antrim (With decreasing standards) but apart from that is hurling gone from Ulster?

allfermanagh (Fermanagh) - Posts: 22 - 30/11/2018 09:28:46    2152884

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The most striking difference ( pun intended ) in how both games are reffed is the way a player giving a shoulder is given the benefit of the doubt in hurling where as in football most shoulders are a free against the player applying it, especially if you knock a lad over. I'd agree that throwing the ball is the biggest flaw in the game

lillyboy (Kildare) - Posts: 391 - 30/11/2018 11:23:17    2152894

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Replying To mayomanic:  "As we look forward to 2019 all the talk is centered on the football code and the recent rule changes. as always we'll have a mixture of good and bad, the good possibly being the offensive mark and limiting the hand pass with the bad having to go forward from a line ball and the sin bin (I just hate the sin bin in any sport including Rugby) it just leads to a lull in the game where most viewers are just hoping it ends without influencing the result of the game too much and without VAR it's a cop out for refs and it'll lead to much debate.

Hurling on the other hand gets all the plaudits but is the game played within the rules? I don't think so. Its common place now for players to take 7,8,9 steps in most situations, throwing the ball is now accepted by all refs, anything goes in the tackle and something needs to be done regarding the scoring zone. Why anyone would wish to play in the full back or full forward lines in hurling is beyond me as the ball just keeps going over their heads. Its not a skill any more to hit a ball from sixty, seventy yards over the crossbar and its ruining the game. where would the great inside forwards such as Nicky English, pat fox, jb murphy, noel lane, eddie brennan, tony doran, tomas mulcahy, joe deane etc fit in to the modern game today? and finally aside from croke park and maybe semple the smaller provincial pitches are not suitable for inter county hurling today.

when you pare it back and take away the crazy tackling (UFC with sticks) the overzealous and often embarrassing punditry of the likes of tommy walsh, micheal duighan and john mullane it's not what it's made out to be."
Eddie Brennan is playing in a Leinster Club final this weekend. The modern game doesn't seem to be hindering him aged 40!

Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 505 - 30/11/2018 12:56:18    2152906

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Replying To hurlinglad15:  "Only in this country would you have the best year of entertainment, skill, mix of games and a new all ireland winner and people still moan and complain. Sapose the original poster is from Mayo so moaning is compulsory. Some ridiculous comments here if the refs blew for every little thing there would be no flow to the game and become unwatchable like football. Even someone mentioned shin pads, give it a break. As for the commentary remark I much prefer listening to the lads than Joe Brolly, Pat Spillane and colm O rourke who are doin no good for the game at all. The only thing I do agree with here is the lack of teams competitive at the top table. A lot of county boards are at fault for this including my own who are a disgrace when it comes to Hurling.
But can we not sit back and be glad we just witnessed an amazing year for Hurling instead of the BS that's going on here."
You have touched on a few different things. Some I would have to agree with. However what is your definition of every little thing ? Is throwing the ball 90% of the time a little thing, or a fundamental rule of the game ? The people and players who use the word "flow" really mean don't penalize my team but go ahead and call the opposition on it. That is human nature. Either you want rules or not. If they serve no purpose or you have no notion of applying get rid of them. We do love the nod nod wink wink stuff don't we ?
Not moaning only contributing to the conversation of what will keep are games great and not falling into the pit (full of sh-t) that every thing is perfect.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 407 - 30/11/2018 14:02:03    2152914

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Replying To shaneShankill:  "I agree 100% with -

"To reduce the scoring from free counts make technical frees (two many steps, picking ball off ground, throwing ball etc) indirect frees - simple or you can only score from a free in your own half. "

One of the reasons why the steps rule is not enforced is that the penalty is often a point for the opposition. Especially given that Goalkeepers regularly put it over from 100 yards.

I would add a couple other rule changes.

- Frees from the hand unless a score is being attempted.
- If you get a free, take it to yourself and keep running. Borrow from super 11s which in turn borrowed from Hockey.
- Shin pads mandatory. For heavens sake they are mandatory in soccer.
- A box mandatory for goalkeepers and defenders on the line from frees. (Again see hockey short corners)

I love hurling, but the way I watch it now is I record it and start watching at half time. I fast forward through all the frees. Makes it great."
The rules of hurling provide the framework within which the game should be played . They are pliable parameters and rightly so . The game thrives on continuity of play . One of football's major problems is the fussiness of it's referees . They are continually stoppping the play and ruining any chance of continuity and momentum in the game . One of hurlings great attributes is the physical nature of the game . Physical play has been taken out of football by the administrators and the referees . Something that lifts the spectators of both sports is the big shoulder . Remember Paudie Maher on Joe Canning in 2016 or Gearoid McInerney on Paudie Maher in 2017 ? They were massive hits that's brought the crowd to their feet . Hurlers are allowed to do that and that's as it should be. I've lost count of the number of good, rock solid shoulders I've seen penalised by knee jerk football refs in recent years . Football has some problems to sort out and one of the biggest of them is the nannies it has for referees . Long may the hurling referees allow the game to flow .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 4895 - 30/11/2018 16:43:21    2152937

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Im not going to bother respond to this......oh wait

PyatPree (Cork) - Posts: 246 - 30/11/2018 17:28:35    2152944

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I love hurling, but the way I watch it now is I record it and start watching at half time. I fast forward through all the frees. Makes it great.

shaneShankill (Dublin) - Posts: 15 - 29/11/2018 11:09:04


I used to like watching football. Now I record it and fast forward to the mass brawl at the end of the game.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 627 - 30/11/2018 17:34:09    2152946

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Replying To allfermanagh:  "Love seeing all this discussion of hurling. Almost weird to read, Basically gone if not dead in most parts of Ulster. I have always felt detached from hurling even though it is a national sport because it is rarely mentioned never mind played up here. One or two strongholds left e.g. Derry and Antrim (With decreasing standards) but apart from that is hurling gone from Ulster?"
Nonsense

Glensboy (Antrim) - Posts: 233 - 30/11/2018 19:15:44    2152955

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Replying To Greengrass:  "The rules of hurling provide the framework within which the game should be played . They are pliable parameters and rightly so . The game thrives on continuity of play . One of football's major problems is the fussiness of it's referees . They are continually stoppping the play and ruining any chance of continuity and momentum in the game . One of hurlings great attributes is the physical nature of the game . Physical play has been taken out of football by the administrators and the referees . Something that lifts the spectators of both sports is the big shoulder . Remember Paudie Maher on Joe Canning in 2016 or Gearoid McInerney on Paudie Maher in 2017 ? They were massive hits that's brought the crowd to their feet . Hurlers are allowed to do that and that's as it should be. I've lost count of the number of good, rock solid shoulders I've seen penalised by knee jerk football refs in recent years . Football has some problems to sort out and one of the biggest of them is the nannies it has for referees . Long may the hurling referees allow the game to flow ."
To be honest the shoulder is going from hurling too. It's a shame. The powers that be think we are all watching for scores and solo runs. I love to see a guy getting a good shoulder and either recovering and playing on or getting wiped out but not stretchered off might I add.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 762 - 01/12/2018 21:22:00    2153032

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Replying To bloodyban:  "To be honest the shoulder is going from hurling too. It's a shame. The powers that be think we are all watching for scores and solo runs. I love to see a guy getting a good shoulder and either recovering and playing on or getting wiped out but not stretchered off might I add."
Well said . The physical element of both games should be encouraged not taken out of the games .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 4895 - 01/12/2018 23:44:21    2153042

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Replying To bloodyban:  "To be honest the shoulder is going from hurling too. It's a shame. The powers that be think we are all watching for scores and solo runs. I love to see a guy getting a good shoulder and either recovering and playing on or getting wiped out but not stretchered off might I add."
"getting wiped out but not stretchered off might I add." just freeze what you said there, unfortunately the game needs to discard this otherwise in five, ten years the litigation will start (and it will start). The whiplash effect (well documented in the NFL) will bankrupt the GAA which is why I think the shoulder will be gone from the game within the next five years. You can mourn its demise but it will be gone or the GAA will be wearing out the path to the high court.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 3869 - 02/12/2018 00:30:06    2153044

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yes throwing off the ball is the biggest cheating in hurling as have seen it on many occasions, I've pulled it on many games which I reffed and the only one to moan is the player that done it. As for a good physical game I enjoyed them as much as the next fan but we had a duty of care to players and would try to control the players as much as we could possibly within the rules(I was the first ref in antrim to send off a player for pulling the faceguard before it was in the rule book, commonsense). I believe that handpassing of the stick would be a good change.
I would like to comment that hurling in ulster has improved at club level with Antrim, Down and now Derry(slaughtneil) being very competitive, but the county team suffer due to lack of player commitment.

exref (Antrim) - Posts: 59 - 02/12/2018 11:30:23    2153051

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Replying To bloodyban:  "To be honest the shoulder is going from hurling too. It's a shame. The powers that be think we are all watching for scores and solo runs. I love to see a guy getting a good shoulder and either recovering and playing on or getting wiped out but not stretchered off might I add."
Are you talking about a shoulder to shoulder hit, or the one to the front when a lad is on a run?
The latter is rightly being taken out of the game as it's cowardly. I haven't seen anything to suggest shoulder to shoulder hits are being penalised.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 351 - 02/12/2018 12:24:18    2153056

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