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Btw - my inter-group approach is kind of a Shara variant - within a Tier, teams play 2 higher/2 lower seeds leading to a common table - I use the grouping just for order - I take your point that it doesn't reflect conventional intra-group round robin. I'm curious - I was suprised when you previously thought there was some good in Shara - but find it inconsistent with not liking my quirks.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 1433 - 06/11/2018 18:11:24 2149941Link 0 0
In Europe though it's very much a round robin group type culture we are accustomed to.
I was lazy when I read your OP. It isn't overly complicated really it just looks that way because you went into a lot of detail and the format of the forum has some of those sorts of posts look unwieldy.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2257 - 08/11/2018 18:30:08 2150268Link 2 0
Lads. Ye are doing great work putting these together. However, you need to factor in club games as well. Put something simple together that incorporates club games to keep everyone happy. That is the hard part. You must keep everybody happy. You need to factor a hurling championship that is integrated with a football championship. You need to factor in different formats for football championship and hurling championships in each county, different number of teams, different prevalance of dual players from say almost none in Fermanagh to loads in Wexford say. Factor in the need to get big games in to ger the money and keeping TV happy also.
bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3678 - 08/11/2018 22:34:44 2150292Link 0 0
I'll explain the competitions after
This would be a Leinster calendar.
17th Feb NFL1
24th Feb NFL2 NHL1
3rd March Football Break NHL2
10th Mar NFL3 Hurling Break
17th Mar NFL4 NHL3
24th Mar Provincial Football 1 NHL4
31st Mar Football Break NHL5
7th April Club Football 1 Hurling Break
14th Apr Football Break Club Hurling 1
21st Apr NFL5 Hurling Break
28th Apr Provincial Football QF NHL6
5th May Football Break Provincial Hurling QF
12th May Club Football 2 Hurling Break
19th May Football Break Club Hurling 2
26th May NFL6 Hurling Break
2nd June Provincial Football SF NHL7
9th June Football Break Provincial Hurling SF
16th June Club Football 3 Hurling Break
23rd June Football Break Club Hurling 3
30th June NFL7 Hurling Break
7th July Provincial Football Final NHL8
14th Jul AI football Playoffs 1 Provincial Hurling Final
21st Jul AI Football QF Hurling Break
28th Jul Football Break NHL9
4th August AI Football SF AI Hurling QF
11th Aug Football Break AI Hurling SF
18th Aug AI Football Final Hurling Break
25th Aug Football Break AI Hurling Final
1st Sep Club Football 4
8th Sep Club Hurling 4
15th Sep Club Football 5
22nd Sep Club Hurling 5
29th Sep Club Football 6
6th Oct Club Hurling 6
13th Oct Club Football 7
20th Oct Club Hurling 7
27th Oct Club Football 8
3rd November Club Hurling 8
10th Nov Club Football 9
17th Nov Club Football 10
24th Nov Club Club Hurling 9
31st Nov Club Football 11
7th Dec Catch up weekend
14th Dec AI Club Finals
There's very little margin for error there though. There can be no replays. Rescheduled games just have to get played mid week. Maybe the season can start 1 weekend earlier and include an intercounty Catch up weekend.
Club action can't be messed around with to accommodate College games.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2257 - 09/11/2018 06:00:11 2150312Link 1 0
The intercounty competitions themselves are:
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2257 - 09/11/2018 06:25:59 2150313Link 1 0
Have an official GAA ranking system, along similar lines to the rugby system, put in its place.
Teams play 10 regular season fixtures, to include the 4 rounds of their Interprovincial championships.
At the end of the 10 round of games teams are divided into their All Ireland grade.
In football you'd have 12,10 and 10.
The Previous season's All Ireland Champion, plus the Previous season's Tier 2 champion plus the current season's Provincial champions are guaranteed a place in the Sam Maguire cup. The remaining teams are allocated based on All Ireland ranking.
I'm hurling you'd have 11, 8, 8, 8 in the tiers.
Each county's hurling and football team's 10 game schedule would have predetermined weekends of action with both teams playing on the same weekends.
There'd be lots of opportunities for club games to be scheduled around these fixtures.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2257 - 10/11/2018 12:04:37 2150501Link 2 0
To Bennybunny -
omahant (USA) - Posts: 1433 - 12/11/2018 19:19:06 2150845Link 0 0
The GAA could adopt a Shara variant incorporating and combining Prov and NFL results in a 32-team table leading to 3 tiers, like you have it, to determine AIC tiering - have Sam, POSe and a 3rd.
Sometime recently you had a good mechanism allowing certain teams a playoff to the top table - with intra-year oscillation between NFL and AIC, keeping interest alive for a maximum number of teams - you had plenty ebb and flo - what was it again - AIC 20 and 12 with NFL 14 and 18 ?
omahant (USA) - Posts: 1433 - 12/11/2018 21:32:52 2150869Link 0 0
Most realistic proposal I have seen is the one Sean Kelly put forward where the winners of each province plus the next 12 top placed teams in the league go in to a 16 team knockout championship.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1085 - 12/11/2018 22:17:17 2150876Link 2 0
There's no increase in matches from the qualifiers system. There's 1 fewer game than the pre super 8 system.
The sorts of teams who are struggling to get a further game in the championship will still struggle to get a further game in this competition. The qualifiers are populated by and large by the same sorts of teams that will be playing in the second tier competition. If we take Antrim we've lost our first round qualifiers to Limerick and Sligo over the last 2 seasons. These are B championship fixtures. We're not going to get on average a great increase in championship games from this system.
For the teams with aspirations of winning the competition. You're looking at the sort of teams around the bottom of division 2 and top of division 3.
You're talking Armagh, Fermanagh, Down, Clare, Tipperary.
These are teams that have gotten to All Ireland quarterfinals, last 12s in recent seasons. Middling teams can emerge to play high profile matches in the current system. Would you rather be involved in a B championship final or an All Ireland last 12 game. Which is the bigger prize? To win a competition to be the 17th ranked team or to reach the last 8 proper.
Which prospect is likely to keep players sticking around for a summer.
They'd also have to stick around because the won't get a second championship game until after the Provincial championships are over.
This is the big problem with a lot of the commentary on a second tier championship it is so low resolution and when any probing is done it's clear to see that it doesn't stack up.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2257 - 13/11/2018 06:20:22 2150887Link 2 0
To solve a few of those issues the two last sixteen competitions could be run on a 4 x 4 group basis to give teams more games.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1085 - 13/11/2018 07:43:58 2150892Link 2 0
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2257 - 13/11/2018 09:55:52 2150903Link 2 0
Top 4x4 (4 Prov Champs + 1 prior yr Tier 2 Champ + 11 Other NFL top 11) - After 3 'conventional' group games / team (or 4 Shara games), top 11 of 16-team table to KO (5 byes to QFs);
Other 4x4 - After 3 group games (or 4) / team, top 11 of 16-team table ro KO (5 byes to QFs).
Tier 2 SFs and Final as curtain raisers to respective Tier 1 pairings.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 1433 - 14/11/2018 02:47:26 2151064Link 0 0
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2257 - 14/11/2018 20:02:19 2151159Link 2 0
I too like your NFL and Provs played on alternating wkds.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 1433 - 15/11/2018 03:35:54 2151185Link 0 0
As reported in the Irish Indy, I see there are two Tier 2 options under consideration.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 1433 - 15/11/2018 13:09:06 2151219Link 0 0