|
Realistically there are only 5/6 teams that will realistically compete for the Liam McCarthy in the next few years. I don't understand why some counties don't come together to be competitive. All counties have some great individual hurlers that deserve to play at the highest level. The idea is similiar to what happens in Senior hurling in Cork and Senior Football in Kerry. Why not see what a combined Offaly/Meath/Westmeath team would do or a Carlow/Kildare/Wicklow team. It would definitely create the interest in those counties and help improve the standard and the Leinster championship.
Pinhead (Galway) - Posts: 6 - 18/10/2018 23:54:38
2147195
Link
1
|
|
Replying To Pinhead: "Realistically there are only 5/6 teams that will realistically compete for the Liam McCarthy in the next few years. I don't understand why some counties don't come together to be competitive. All counties have some great individual hurlers that deserve to play at the highest level. The idea is similiar to what happens in Senior hurling in Cork and Senior Football in Kerry. Why not see what a combined Offaly/Meath/Westmeath team would do or a Carlow/Kildare/Wicklow team. It would definitely create the interest in those counties and help improve the standard and the Leinster championship." Offaly won an AI 20 years ago so Im sure they wont be looking for a partner to win their next one. The other teams you mention are progressive hurling counties so I would be inclined to leave them alone. Whats important is that the progress continues and in time one of these will join the top group.
I think a rest of connacht team and maybe 1 or 2 regional teams in Ulster would be a better place to start, but if it fails it will probably fail badly due to lack of interest in these counties.
ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 19/10/2018 09:58:36
2147214
Link
0
|
|
But they have their own parallel comp running at the same time as Leinster Championship. So don't think that would work.
I do agree with the overall sentiment, could have "rest of connacht" v Galway, or Carlow/Kildare/Wicklow v Kilkenny or games like that.
But for me the first step in such a thing is for more counties to play in stronger counties leagues, as Carlow do in Kilkenny say.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 19/10/2018 10:16:45
2147216
Link
0
|
|
The theory is good but you could foresee some difficulties:
- Lack of buy in from the county fans involved who wouldn't have any affiliation with MayCommonTrimGo / CarOffaLaois etc.
- Lack of buy in from the players - the aspiration is to make the county team, not a hybrid team
- Potential cliques in the team
- The logistics of players travelling long distances to training (appreciate several county players already do this)
- Lack of objectivity of a manager (i.e. would he be accused of favouring his own county, whether this is a fair reflection or not)
- Organisation of venues (would the counties involved share the costs / spoils of hosting games, how would venues be decided etc.?)
- Tied to above, there would be corporate issues with sponsorship (or jerseys, venues etc.) and advertising in county grounds (will companies be put off advertising in a ground when they're unsure of whether the ground will be used etc.)
Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 19/10/2018 11:21:47
2147223
Link
0
|
|
why wouldnt players buy in,it is their chance to hurl at the top level?would they rather hurl in front of 200 people in sligo or somewhere rather than in croke park in front of 80k?
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 19/10/2018 12:00:40
2147231
Link
0
|
|
The theory is good but you could foresee some difficulties:
- Lack of buy in from the county fans involved who wouldn't have any affiliation with MayCommonTrimGo / CarOffaLaois etc.
- Lack of buy in from the players - the aspiration is to make the county team, not a hybrid team
- Potential cliques in the team
- The logistics of players travelling long distances to training (appreciate several county players already do this)
- Lack of objectivity of a manager (i.e. would he be accused of favouring his own county, whether this is a fair reflection or not)
- Organisation of venues (would the counties involved share the costs / spoils of hosting games, how would venues be decided etc.?)
- Tied to above, there would be corporate issues with sponsorship (or jerseys, venues etc.) and advertising in county grounds (will companies be put off advertising in a ground when they're unsure of whether the ground will be used etc.)
Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 423 - 19/10/2018 11:21:47Are county fans from those counties buying in already? If the best players were playing in the top level of competition then there possibly would be more of a buy in from fans
I dont see how there would be a lack of buy in from players. They're playing for a county team in a higher level than they likely would playing for their individual county. Just like regional teams within club championships.
For some of these grouped sides how much further would players be travelling to train?
There can already be arguments about lack of objectivity from coaches in selection within counties. Nothing will change with this.
DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 544 - 19/10/2018 12:20:26
2147235
Link
1
|
|
Have thought the same thing recently. My thoughts would be the players would still compete with their counties in the current tournaments ie Christy ring etc and then also line out for an amalgamated team as you suggest in the all Ireland series. Like even if it's one game at least they are getting to play hopefully before a big crowd if you had a double header.
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 403 - 19/10/2018 13:33:42
2147239
Link
0
|
|
I think rugby have piggybacked on the parochialism of GAA with the provinces. The GAA could possibly piggy on the unity that rugby have brought to the provinces. In Connaught and Ulster at least it would help get fan buy in.
Among the many problems that exist here are that hurling in both provinces is weak even a coming together wouldn't have them competitive on the McCarthy Cup. The clubs would need to play at a higher standard, like how some Carlow clubs play in the Kilkenny leagues but that's 2 small counties side by side. Derry or Donegal clubs can't play in the Galway league. Maybe massive investment in hurling coaches would help but it would be a long term project.
These players are amateurs, it is tough on players from west Cork coming up to the city for county training. You can't get players to travel halfway or more across a province for training 3 or 4 times a week after work. The only option here would be to make all panelists GDA's so that the GAA could facilitate their training - nearly a step towards professionalism there!
It would be great to see something radical done though.
tomhealycork (Cork) - Posts: 80 - 19/10/2018 14:02:37
2147244
Link
0
|
|
I think rugby have piggybacked on the parochialism of GAA with the provinces. The GAA could possibly piggy on the unity that rugby have brought to the provinces. In Connaught and Ulster at least it would help get fan buy in.
Among the many problems that exist here are that hurling in both provinces is weak even a coming together wouldn't have them competitive on the McCarthy Cup. The clubs would need to play at a higher standard, like how some Carlow clubs play in the Kilkenny leagues but that's 2 small counties side by side. Derry or Donegal clubs can't play in the Galway league. Maybe massive investment in hurling coaches would help but it would be a long term project.
These players are amateurs, it is tough on players from west Cork coming up to the city for county training. You can't get players to travel halfway or more across a province for training 3 or 4 times a week after work. The only option here would be to make all panelists GDA's so that the GAA could facilitate their training - nearly a step towards professionalism there!
It would be great to see something radical done though.
tomhealycork (Cork) - Posts: 5 - 19/10/2018 14:02:37 Rugby hasnt piggybacked on anything from GAA with the provincial set ups
DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 544 - 19/10/2018 17:32:35
2147276
Link
0
|
|
Replying To ZUL10: "Offaly won an AI 20 years ago so Im sure they wont be looking for a partner to win their next one. The other teams you mention are progressive hurling counties so I would be inclined to leave them alone. Whats important is that the progress continues and in time one of these will join the top group.
I think a rest of connacht team and maybe 1 or 2 regional teams in Ulster would be a better place to start, but if it fails it will probably fail badly due to lack of interest in these counties." No disrespect meant to them whatsoever, you actually think Offaly will someday win a "next one"? It saddens me to say it but it seems to me extremely unlikely that teams like Offaly or Laois will win a senior All Ireland in the next 100 years. Genuinely hope I'm wrong but......
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1902 - 19/10/2018 17:34:32
2147277
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pinhead: "Realistically there are only 5/6 teams that will realistically compete for the Liam McCarthy in the next few years. I don't understand why some counties don't come together to be competitive. All counties have some great individual hurlers that deserve to play at the highest level. The idea is similiar to what happens in Senior hurling in Cork and Senior Football in Kerry. Why not see what a combined Offaly/Meath/Westmeath team would do or a Carlow/Kildare/Wicklow team. It would definitely create the interest in those counties and help improve the standard and the Leinster championship." And the exact same should be done for football.
I would bring in a Tier 2 and Tier 3 championship in for football ASAP to give any of the teams outside the top 6/7 an aspiring chance to win some championship silverware.
Since 1990 9 different teams have won Sam Maguire and 8 different teams have won the Liam McCarthy.
I think the Liam McCarthy will be shared among more counties over the next 10 years while it is hard to see anyone outside of Dublin, Kerry and possibly Tyrone share the Sam Maguire.
Past hurler (None) - Posts: 718 - 19/10/2018 18:31:11
2147279
Link
0
|
|
In both codes I'd be in favour of a scaling back of the intercounty scene.
In favour of a club league system where clubs and divisional sides representing a number of clubs compete in a regular Provincial league system with matches practically every weekend in each code.
There would still be a club level below playing county league competition. A knockout club championship in every county with all players available to clubs would also be run.
Basically the Kerry model expanded to Provincial competition with clubs able to consolidate to field teams of sufficient standard to compete at a provincial league level.
There'd be strict adherence to non payment of managers below provincial league level.
The power of the intercounty game that is currently strangling the rest of the game would be reduced.
The game would be of a high standard but also would be more competitive as the amalgamations would be looser than the current intercounty boundaries used.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 19/10/2018 19:29:16
2147284
Link
2
|
|
Replying To Pinhead: "Realistically there are only 5/6 teams that will realistically compete for the Liam McCarthy in the next few years. I don't understand why some counties don't come together to be competitive. All counties have some great individual hurlers that deserve to play at the highest level. The idea is similiar to what happens in Senior hurling in Cork and Senior Football in Kerry. Why not see what a combined Offaly/Meath/Westmeath team would do or a Carlow/Kildare/Wicklow team. It would definitely create the interest in those counties and help improve the standard and the Leinster championship." In this model, would the McDonagh/Ring/Rackard/Meaghar compeltions be done away with, or just have counties field teams in those competitions without their top players? For teams like Offaly/Meath/Westmeath, would that not hurt their ambitions of playing in the top tier in their own right?
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 19/10/2018 21:38:06
2147302
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Marlon_JD: "In this model, would the McDonagh/Ring/Rackard/Meaghar compeltions be done away with, or just have counties field teams in those competitions without their top players? For teams like Offaly/Meath/Westmeath, would that not hurt their ambitions of playing in the top tier in their own right?" If a team qualified for the top tier then they would not contribute to the Regional team, similiar to the divisional teams in Kerry and Cork. As with everything in the GAA the buyin would have to come from the relevant county boards, who would be afraid of losing some power.
Something has to give with the game of hurling. Everyone says it is the ' greatest game in the world ' but it is not played by everyone in this country and we need to give those good players in weaker counties the opportunity to showcase their skills at the highest level.
Pinhead (Galway) - Posts: 6 - 20/10/2018 00:51:13
2147318
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pinhead: "If a team qualified for the top tier then they would not contribute to the Regional team, similiar to the divisional teams in Kerry and Cork. As with everything in the GAA the buyin would have to come from the relevant county boards, who would be afraid of losing some power.
Something has to give with the game of hurling. Everyone says it is the ' greatest game in the world ' but it is not played by everyone in this country and we need to give those good players in weaker counties the opportunity to showcase their skills at the highest level." Right, but that doesn't seem to contradict my point about hurting teams playing in the McDonagh, Ring etc cups, by taking their best players away from them. The top 2 McDonagh teams get a chance to play against the top sides as is in the quarter-final play-offs, so why would they want to lose their best players and jeopardize that?
The Christy Ring winners get promoted and so get a chance to fight for the same thing the McDonagh teams gets to play for, so why would a team like Meath want to lose their best players to a regional team, and jeopardize their chance of getting back to the higher tier in their own right?
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 20/10/2018 17:14:27
2147375
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Marlon_JD: "Right, but that doesn't seem to contradict my point about hurting teams playing in the McDonagh, Ring etc cups, by taking their best players away from them. The top 2 McDonagh teams get a chance to play against the top sides as is in the quarter-final play-offs, so why would they want to lose their best players and jeopardize that?
The Christy Ring winners get promoted and so get a chance to fight for the same thing the McDonagh teams gets to play for, so why would a team like Meath want to lose their best players to a regional team, and jeopardize their chance of getting back to the higher tier in their own right?" If my understanding of the way the Kerry competition structures work is right players from Junior/ Intermediate club's from an area pool their best players to put out a team to compete in the Kerry Senior football championship. This means the best junior club players play in both the Junior championship (for their clubs) and the Senior championship. In theory it sounds like a great model for the inter county championship. The practicality of players training for county/ amalgamated teams might be where it runs into issues. I would say amalgamated teams for hurling championship might get more buy in from supporter's that people think, any Kerry people here know do the divisional teams get much support in the Kerry senior championship ?
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1338 - 21/10/2018 15:33:16
2147471
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Whammo86: "In both codes I'd be in favour of a scaling back of the intercounty scene.
In favour of a club league system where clubs and divisional sides representing a number of clubs compete in a regular Provincial league system with matches practically every weekend in each code.
There would still be a club level below playing county league competition. A knockout club championship in every county with all players available to clubs would also be run.
Basically the Kerry model expanded to Provincial competition with clubs able to consolidate to field teams of sufficient standard to compete at a provincial league level.
There'd be strict adherence to non payment of managers below provincial league level.
The power of the intercounty game that is currently strangling the rest of the game would be reduced.
The game would be of a high standard but also would be more competitive as the amalgamations would be looser than the current intercounty boundaries used." Yes, competitive balance is the lifeblood of any sport - the US NFL has done a reasonable job here combining the draft (favouring weaker teams) with the team salary cap - and Aussie AFL too - Greater Sydney Giants in particular from their early years.
I like your club idea - the Prov leagues could akin to 4 rugby Pro 14s and County leagues akin to the level of the rugby All Ire League.
In prior posts, I have argued within the Inter-County strait jacket for amalgamation (in the Champp only) of weaker counties combined with 'extra' teams to give players greater access from high populated areas (keeps Dublin as one, but adds Dun Laoighaire, City North or Dublin B - players could be eligible for Dubs first, before opting for others if unsuccessful). Something has to be done before we all turn out the lights and go elsewhere for entertainment.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2573 - 21/10/2018 16:00:26
2147472
Link
0
|
|
Replying To bdbuddah: "If my understanding of the way the Kerry competition structures work is right players from Junior/ Intermediate club's from an area pool their best players to put out a team to compete in the Kerry Senior football championship. This means the best junior club players play in both the Junior championship (for their clubs) and the Senior championship. In theory it sounds like a great model for the inter county championship. The practicality of players training for county/ amalgamated teams might be where it runs into issues. I would say amalgamated teams for hurling championship might get more buy in from supporter's that people think, any Kerry people here know do the divisional teams get much support in the Kerry senior championship ?" So, players would be playing for they county AND these 'regional' sides? And their clubs?
The point of the regional teams mooted in this thread, is to have them play at the top level. So playing against the likes of Limerick, Kilkenny, Galway, Tipp, the top 8/9 counties etc. These are teams with the best/deepest squads in the country, who are training as a unit from the beginning of the year, and using a league campaign to get a settled team ready for the championship. Which is now an even harder thing to do, look at Tipp this year. But its nearly a full time thing for these players at this stage as it is.
But the expectation for these regional teams will be to compete with squads who've gone through the same prep as the 1A league teams? Will these regional teams be fielded in the league as well? They'd have to be to come even close to being a cohesive enough unit to even come near to being able to compete with the top teams. And if they were to give the requisite commitment to training with the regional teams, to the stage where they're matching that of the Galway and Kilkennys etc, where would they find the time to train with their own counties?
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 21/10/2018 16:24:40
2147476
Link
0
|
|
The end result should really be that every child in the country qualifies to play McCarthy cup hurling if they are good enough and not be constrained by where they live.
My own preference would be to have 4 extra teams competing for Liam McCarthy:
Ireland West
Ulster
South Leinster
North Leinster
Basically if your county is not in McCarthy then you qualify to play for one of the above.
liam500 (Wicklow) - Posts: 175 - 21/10/2018 19:19:19
2147507
Link
1
|
|
Replying To Marlon_JD: "So, players would be playing for they county AND these 'regional' sides? And their clubs?
The point of the regional teams mooted in this thread, is to have them play at the top level. So playing against the likes of Limerick, Kilkenny, Galway, Tipp, the top 8/9 counties etc. These are teams with the best/deepest squads in the country, who are training as a unit from the beginning of the year, and using a league campaign to get a settled team ready for the championship. Which is now an even harder thing to do, look at Tipp this year. But its nearly a full time thing for these players at this stage as it is.
But the expectation for these regional teams will be to compete with squads who've gone through the same prep as the 1A league teams? Will these regional teams be fielded in the league as well? They'd have to be to come even close to being a cohesive enough unit to even come near to being able to compete with the top teams. And if they were to give the requisite commitment to training with the regional teams, to the stage where they're matching that of the Galway and Kilkennys etc, where would they find the time to train with their own counties?" Your previous post you didn't seem to understand how a player could play for both his club team and an amalgamated regional team in the Kerry club championships. I was explaining that this is possible as the amalgamated regional team does not compete in the junior/ intermediate ranks where they draw the players from. Actually read my previous post again, I then said if something similar was set up for intercounty competition the practicalities of training for their counties/ amalgamated teams simultaneously would be where the issue would be.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1338 - 21/10/2018 19:50:30
2147514
Link
0
|