National Forum

Instead Of Splitting Dublin In Two...

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Look Dublin have advantages over every county in Ireland and their fans must accept that. However it's not their fault. It's mostly due to economic issues and the changing times.

Splitting them would destroy Dublin GAA and de value the championship as a whole. You wanna beat the best to be the best.

Wait and see if they win 10 in a row which they won't. I wonder would we be having the same conversation is Kerry were going for 5 in a row (again)?

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 9372 - 27/09/2018 21:13:44    2144160

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Look Dublin have advantages over every county in Ireland and their fans must accept that. However it's not their fault. It's mostly due to economic issues and the changing times.

Splitting them would destroy Dublin GAA and de value the championship as a whole. You wanna beat the best to be the best.

Wait and see if they win 10 in a row which they won't. I wonder would we be having the same conversation is Kerry were going for 5 in a row (again)?"
Yes - but as a Corkman, let me move on !

Competitive balance in any sport requires the collective talent to be spread out among various teams. Given the Dubs population and talent pick - why not let them stay as a 'whole county' but create new split Dub teams for the players who didn't make the first team ?

Have a 15-team AI SFC with three groups of 5.
Dubs, 6 Other Major Counties, 4 Other Split Dub teams and 4 'Rest Ofs' (Provs or Regions).
Best 8 or 10 from a combined 15-team table to KO AI Series.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1403 - 28/09/2018 00:12:44    2144183

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Replying To omahant:  "Yes - but as a Corkman, let me move on !

Competitive balance in any sport requires the collective talent to be spread out among various teams. Given the Dubs population and talent pick - why not let them stay as a 'whole county' but create new split Dub teams for the players who didn't make the first team ?

Have a 15-team AI SFC with three groups of 5.
Dubs, 6 Other Major Counties, 4 Other Split Dub teams and 4 'Rest Ofs' (Provs or Regions).
Best 8 or 10 from a combined 15-team table to KO AI Series."
So take the "county" out of "inter county". The association is built on tribalism and parochial competition. You can't arbitrarily remove identity. It would see the end of gaelic games. As I always said, it's all relative. Cork have advantages over every other county in Munster, Galway have advantages over every county in Connacht and Antrim in Ulster. Capitalising on those advantages is another matter. If you want to discuss levelling the playing field then it probably would mean creating multiple teams within some counties like Cork, Galway, Mayo, Dublin, Antrim... Again I think it would be a disaster from an association perspective and attendances would plummet taking a long time to recover. Every sport has competitors who have advantages over others: Leinster rugby, a province competing in club competition, Real Madrid with endless spending power, US olympians from a country with an endless talent stream, New Zealand rugby because it's in their DNA, cycling tour winners because their team medics are one step ahead of the ruling authority counterparts. That's sport for you. You make the most of what is available to you. Croatia almost won a WC this year.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 3322 - 28/09/2018 10:21:47    2144201

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Replying To ShinerMackey:  "I'm totally against the merger of any counties and equally against the splitting of any counties.

Either of those suggestions is the beginning of the end and soon we'll be watching the South Connemara Sea Serpents v The Causway Coastal Giants live and exclusive on Sky.

The rooting of the GAA in place is what makes it successfull. It reflects the primitive clanship within us all, to mess with that and the history would ruin the association.

Rather than coming up with plans to fix the County game because Dublin are too good, why not get back to your own club and fix whatever problems exist there. Stronger Clubs = Stronger Counties. The Dubs can be beaten, you just have to work as hard as they do, and harder because we are all playing catchup."
I agree with Shiner. To be successful, counties have to start with underage, and work it from there.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 933 - 28/09/2018 12:02:44    2144213

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Replying To Joxer:  "So take the "county" out of "inter county". The association is built on tribalism and parochial competition. You can't arbitrarily remove identity. It would see the end of gaelic games. As I always said, it's all relative. Cork have advantages over every other county in Munster, Galway have advantages over every county in Connacht and Antrim in Ulster. Capitalising on those advantages is another matter. If you want to discuss levelling the playing field then it probably would mean creating multiple teams within some counties like Cork, Galway, Mayo, Dublin, Antrim... Again I think it would be a disaster from an association perspective and attendances would plummet taking a long time to recover. Every sport has competitors who have advantages over others: Leinster rugby, a province competing in club competition, Real Madrid with endless spending power, US olympians from a country with an endless talent stream, New Zealand rugby because it's in their DNA, cycling tour winners because their team medics are one step ahead of the ruling authority counterparts. That's sport for you. You make the most of what is available to you. Croatia almost won a WC this year."
Would you go for expansion instead then ? - keep all 32 as is and have additional Dub and regional teams as well - call it a 40 team AI SFC.
A Carlow supporter could support Carlow 1st and then South Leinster as well or instead (if Wex + Wick + Carl etc).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1403 - 29/09/2018 00:34:09    2144304

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Replying To omahant:  "Would you go for expansion instead then ? - keep all 32 as is and have additional Dub and regional teams as well - call it a 40 team AI SFC.
A Carlow supporter could support Carlow 1st and then South Leinster as well or instead (if Wex + Wick + Carl etc)."
No

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 7060 - 29/09/2018 16:09:16    2144336

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Replying To omahant:  "Would you go for expansion instead then ? - keep all 32 as is and have additional Dub and regional teams as well - call it a 40 team AI SFC.
A Carlow supporter could support Carlow 1st and then South Leinster as well or instead (if Wex + Wick + Carl etc)."
I think ultmately if you want to just "even out the standard" then you are looking to dilute the perceived advantages that the bigger counties have over the smaller and in an attempt to tone the level back to the lowest common denominator. I'm not in favour of this TBH as it punishes those counties who have progressed through hard work, who have got their [email protected] together, courted sponsors etc like Dublin, Tyrone, Monaghan, Kildare (soon) etc and favours those who accept the as is like Meath, Cork etc IMO. But if that's the objective and that's what the Ewan McKenna whingers of this world want then you would have to try and artificially stifle progress within the bigger counties, almost F1 like, split them up, limit sponsorship (politicical party like), split funding up..... It would require radical thinking and would create huge divisions at every level. And all because the dirty Dubs had the audacity to organise themselves, invest years of hard work at grassroots level and win 4 Sams in a row. So much for rewarding progress.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 3322 - 29/09/2018 16:30:40    2144338

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Replying To Joxer:  "So take the "county" out of "inter county". The association is built on tribalism and parochial competition. You can't arbitrarily remove identity. It would see the end of gaelic games. As I always said, it's all relative. Cork have advantages over every other county in Munster, Galway have advantages over every county in Connacht and Antrim in Ulster. Capitalising on those advantages is another matter. If you want to discuss levelling the playing field then it probably would mean creating multiple teams within some counties like Cork, Galway, Mayo, Dublin, Antrim... Again I think it would be a disaster from an association perspective and attendances would plummet taking a long time to recover. Every sport has competitors who have advantages over others: Leinster rugby, a province competing in club competition, Real Madrid with endless spending power, US olympians from a country with an endless talent stream, New Zealand rugby because it's in their DNA, cycling tour winners because their team medics are one step ahead of the ruling authority counterparts. That's sport for you. You make the most of what is available to you. Croatia almost won a WC this year."
I wouldn't go using Antrim or any of the 6 counties out of the 9 in Ulster as having a distinct advantage of the kind I think you're talking about. It's not as simple as land mass or population when you have two cultures and a long dark history with obvious prejudice still very clearly present.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 1686 - 29/09/2018 17:46:26    2144341

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The big thing is to sort out the intercounty season.

Make it something players from every county want to compete in.

Right now it's a joke. Play 7 games in February and March, then 2 or 3 in the season proper. All the while not getting any club activity going.

Get the intercounty season sorted. More teams get their best players actually playing for them, maybe the depth starts to come from there

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2167 - 30/09/2018 13:53:15    2144419

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "I wouldn't go using Antrim or any of the 6 counties out of the 9 in Ulster as having a distinct advantage of the kind I think you're talking about. It's not as simple as land mass or population when you have two cultures and a long dark history with obvious prejudice still very clearly present."
Same in Dublin. It's easy to look at Dublin and say population but then when you consider the amount of non-Dubs, let alone non-Irish, living in Dublin the target population is much smaller. However like Antrim and Cork, still much larger than most counties.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 3322 - 30/09/2018 15:00:27    2144427

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I'd like the best to play for their county only, the rest for club only. Remember Irish Rugby Provs used to be representative until they became super clubs in their own right competing at the highest level - and aren't we all entertained now ?

The current Dubs currently play 8 NFL and 8 AIC matches - without club matches - increase this to say a 24 or so game season.

What's wrong with adding new teams to increase competition and participation by those who currently don't have a chance in the high population centres. Why not have Carlow compete as part of the South Leinster team in the AIC - and revert to Carlow in Div3 or 4 for the NFL ?

Change of some sort is needed - inertia gets us nowhere.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1403 - 30/09/2018 15:59:30    2144434

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Look Dublin have advantages over every county in Ireland and their fans must accept that. However it's not their fault. It's mostly due to economic issues and the changing times.

Splitting them would destroy Dublin GAA and de value the championship as a whole. You wanna beat the best to be the best.

Wait and see if they win 10 in a row which they won't. I wonder would we be having the same conversation is Kerry were going for 5 in a row (again)?"
Well said, catch a breath and see how it goes in the next few years, form dictates this will end.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 3870 - 30/09/2018 16:42:34    2144440

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Replying To arock:  "Well said, catch a breath and see how it goes in the next few years, form dictates this will end."
Great - instead of planning for a changing world - let's sit on our hands and see where the wind takes us.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1403 - 30/09/2018 16:58:24    2144444

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Seriously - how well would a Dubs B team do in the Championship ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1403 - 30/09/2018 17:02:46    2144445

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Replying To omahant:  "Seriously - how well would a Dubs B team do in the Championship ?"
Seriously - we will never know , its will not happen , let it go lad .

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 1326 - 30/09/2018 17:16:26    2144448

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Replying To Joxer:  "Same in Dublin. It's easy to look at Dublin and say population but then when you consider the amount of non-Dubs, let alone non-Irish, living in Dublin the target population is much smaller. However like Antrim and Cork, still much larger than most counties."
I still don't think you get it. Its one thing to have a non Irish population but how many of them would threaten or attack a kid for carrying a hurl or gear bag to training because it identifies them as a Catholic?

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 1686 - 30/09/2018 23:04:08    2144509

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "I still don't think you get it. Its one thing to have a non Irish population but how many of them would threaten or attack a kid for carrying a hurl or gear bag to training because it identifies them as a Catholic?"
Didn't think that kind of stone age behaviour was still that prevalent to be honest. But if it is then I take your point. Bizarrely that kind of reaction may make people more entrenched and drive them towards gaelic games to copperfasten their identity. But I'm loathe to comment on it as respect the views of the nationalists who live up there and have to deal with this [email protected]

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 3322 - 01/10/2018 08:49:26    2144527

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Replying To Joxer:  "Didn't think that kind of stone age behaviour was still that prevalent to be honest. But if it is then I take your point. Bizarrely that kind of reaction may make people more entrenched and drive them towards gaelic games to copperfasten their identity. But I'm loathe to comment on it as respect the views of the nationalists who live up there and have to deal with this [email protected]"
It still happens. Not as often as it used to but there are definitely towns or areas of the city that it would be advised not to walk about care free with anything to do with GAA with you. It definitely has an influence on particapation levels especially in mixed areas where it's less 'offensive' to join a soccer or rugby team than admit you play Gaelic football or hurling. Our games still have a bad rep throughout the unionist community unfortunately due to tabloid propaganda and a fixation on some of the club names and links to paramilitaries etc. The real purpose and qualities of the GAA is lost on a lot of the unionist population. It has led to attacks on members and club property on a regular enough basis still. In predominantly nationist areas you'd be right about people standing by their teams mostly, but for over 50% of the 6 counties it's a different story.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 1686 - 01/10/2018 10:10:22    2144536

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Replying To Joxer:  "Didn't think that kind of stone age behaviour was still that prevalent to be honest. But if it is then I take your point. Bizarrely that kind of reaction may make people more entrenched and drive them towards gaelic games to copperfasten their identity. But I'm loathe to comment on it as respect the views of the nationalists who live up there and have to deal with this [email protected]"
It still happens. Not as often as it used to but there are definitely towns or areas of the city that it would be advised not to walk about care free with anything to do with GAA with you. It definitely has an influence on particapation levels especially in mixed areas where it's less 'offensive' to join a soccer or rugby team than admit you play Gaelic football or hurling. Our games still have a bad rep throughout the unionist community unfortunately due to tabloid propaganda and a fixation on some of the club names and links to paramilitaries etc. The real purpose and qualities of the GAA is lost on a lot of the unionist population. It has led to attacks on members and club property on a regular enough basis still. In predominantly nationist areas you'd be right about people standing by their teams mostly, but for over 50% of the 6 counties it's a different story.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 1686 - 01/10/2018 10:10:51    2144537

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