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With all the complaining about money and population advantages, boring football etc.
I would just like to know what peoples ideal GAA would be.
Would maybe redrawing county lines and having 60 counties of equal area (size), with a split population of 100k per county, 10 clubs In said counties with 10k people per club, thus doing away with population advantages, splitting the bigger counties like Dublin into 8 (north,east, south, west, northeast, south east, northwest, south west), Cork into 6, Galway maybe into 4 or 5 etc)
Maybe split every single bit of money between those 60 counties then evenly doing away with the imbalance of monies dished.
Then on the pitch we can get 100pc of refereeing decisions right.
forwards have to stay inside their 45 and defenders aren't allowed outside of their 45 with the midfield only allowed between the two 45m lines.
I mean.. For all the complaining and constant moaning about the ills of the game and its association which from the onset was set up to be inherently unfair to the smaller counties,
But then, Is any sport on the planet fair ? Every simgle sport being played in my view is unfair, there is no perfect sport.
Im interested to hear what people want though, how they would make everything 100pc equal and make our sport, football in particular, so perfect so that there would be no longer complaints and nothing but praise for the organisation, the game, the volunteers etc.
Its impossible, if you expect/want fairness, sport isn't for you. Sorry
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 06/09/2018 13:46:39
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That's easy to say when you are from Dublin or Mayo or Kerry or Cork etc Wayno, but it's not much consolation for those from counties who are not now and not likely to be any time soon in a position to compete
Personally, i do believe any sponsorship deals should be centralised. So the money we get from AIG should be divided equally between Leinster counties, likewise the money Cork get from Chill.ie to munster etc etc
I do believe Dublin should not play their home games in the national stadium. We should have our own stadium with a 40k kinda figure somewhere suitable. Obviously this is not going to happen today or tomorrow but we cant deny that it IS a ridiculous situation that we essentially play the full season more or less, at home....
Counties should be able to canvas for external fundings of course, ie Club Kerry and Tyrone etc and keep that inhouse.
Funding should be on a population basis and evenly distributed, so if Dublin has 10 times more population than Kerry then they should get ten times more funding, but no more than that
This is just a start.....
Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 06/09/2018 14:18:11
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My ideal GAA would be every county at the start of every year having a clear idea of what they are setting out to achieve that year. At the moment you'd have to wonder what the point of it all is if you're from a county with no real prospect of winning any silverware whatsoever. I think the only real way to change this is by having a two-tier championship and linking league performance to those championships. You have to have clear pathways to the top table for teams. So if you're in Division 4 this year, you know if you get a squad together that moves up through the leagues you will be contesting for the A Championship within a couple of years. You also have to elevate the second tier as a competition worth winning, you do this by giving the winners an automatic spot in the A championship the following year but also by advertising the games, having them as part of double headers with other matches, make it a condition of TV rights that X amount of these games must be televised as well. It can't be a Tommy Murphy Cup.
The reason I like this idea as well is we've already proven this year you can condense the summer and have a feast of football going on. Could you imagine the opening weekend of these championships, 16 matches across the country on a Saturday and Sunday, it'd be brilliant on the likes of Sports Sunday on RTE, going round the grounds. I also think with the right advertising and encouragement you'd see the attendances going up with this - we're not going to have all 16 matches on TV so in general you'll have more going to the game.
On the other side of things the GAA need to look at appointing some kinda of independent oversight, how are budgets spent, how are they decided to be spent etc. I think counties raising money themselves can spend that money however they want, but if the money is coming from HQ there has to be a strategic idea of what they want to achieve with that by divvying it up among different provinces and counties. If you give a block of money to every county, what do you want them to do with that?
At the moment it feels like there isn't any strategic thinking going on in the GAA so ideally I'd like to see a change there. They showed some forward thinking by realising they need a strong Dublin for the football championship, now I'd like to see them realise the potential of counties such as Antrim. And I think the biggest issue is that joined up, strategic thinking - you can't just give the money to these county boards and provincial councils and trust they'll do the right thing with it. Oversight and reporting back centrally is key to the development of the games across the island and the health of the GAA going forward.
A note on all that too is developing hurling outside of the traditional counties. If you are divvying up funds among counties, I don't think it's fair to give the same amount to a county who are exclusively investing in football, and a county who are trying to develop both codes (or more). If Kilkenny don't want to field a football team, that's fine, but don't give them the same level of funding as say, Laois, who may be trying to develop football and hurling in the county.
JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 06/09/2018 14:59:45
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Professional, merge counties and create a 16 team Premiership
PyatPree (Cork) - Posts: 376 - 06/09/2018 17:49:05
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Replying To JoeSoap: "My ideal GAA would be every county at the start of every year having a clear idea of what they are setting out to achieve that year. At the moment you'd have to wonder what the point of it all is if you're from a county with no real prospect of winning any silverware whatsoever. I think the only real way to change this is by having a two-tier championship and linking league performance to those championships. You have to have clear pathways to the top table for teams. So if you're in Division 4 this year, you know if you get a squad together that moves up through the leagues you will be contesting for the A Championship within a couple of years. You also have to elevate the second tier as a competition worth winning, you do this by giving the winners an automatic spot in the A championship the following year but also by advertising the games, having them as part of double headers with other matches, make it a condition of TV rights that X amount of these games must be televised as well. It can't be a Tommy Murphy Cup.
The reason I like this idea as well is we've already proven this year you can condense the summer and have a feast of football going on. Could you imagine the opening weekend of these championships, 16 matches across the country on a Saturday and Sunday, it'd be brilliant on the likes of Sports Sunday on RTE, going round the grounds. I also think with the right advertising and encouragement you'd see the attendances going up with this - we're not going to have all 16 matches on TV so in general you'll have more going to the game.
On the other side of things the GAA need to look at appointing some kinda of independent oversight, how are budgets spent, how are they decided to be spent etc. I think counties raising money themselves can spend that money however they want, but if the money is coming from HQ there has to be a strategic idea of what they want to achieve with that by divvying it up among different provinces and counties. If you give a block of money to every county, what do you want them to do with that?
At the moment it feels like there isn't any strategic thinking going on in the GAA so ideally I'd like to see a change there. They showed some forward thinking by realising they need a strong Dublin for the football championship, now I'd like to see them realise the potential of counties such as Antrim. And I think the biggest issue is that joined up, strategic thinking - you can't just give the money to these county boards and provincial councils and trust they'll do the right thing with it. Oversight and reporting back centrally is key to the development of the games across the island and the health of the GAA going forward.
A note on all that too is developing hurling outside of the traditional counties. If you are divvying up funds among counties, I don't think it's fair to give the same amount to a county who are exclusively investing in football, and a county who are trying to develop both codes (or more). If Kilkenny don't want to field a football team, that's fine, but don't give them the same level of funding as say, Laois, who may be trying to develop football and hurling in the county." Could there be tiered super 8 equivalents based on exit time from current championship structure?
ie. super 8's remaining the same,
8 teams knocked out in rd1 qualifiers become an 8 who play off for a trophy,
8 teams from rd 2 likewise
Same again from those out in rounds 3 and 4.
It would make the qualifiers tremendously interesting, giving teams like Wicklow, Waterford etc. something really to play for.. one win is a step up in tier and something to be celebrated and even if you're a team destined to be knocked out in round one, there's a chance of silverware.
It doesn't fix any of the financial injustices that currently exist but could make championships far more interesting.
I'd also imagine attendance numbers would rise largely in the small counties and otherwise due to not all games being able to be shown on tv
Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 323 - 06/09/2018 18:10:30
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Replying To Liamwalkinstown: "That's easy to say when you are from Dublin or Mayo or Kerry or Cork etc Wayno, but it's not much consolation for those from counties who are not now and not likely to be any time soon in a position to compete
Personally, i do believe any sponsorship deals should be centralised. So the money we get from AIG should be divided equally between Leinster counties, likewise the money Cork get from Chill.ie to munster etc etc
I do believe Dublin should not play their home games in the national stadium. We should have our own stadium with a 40k kinda figure somewhere suitable. Obviously this is not going to happen today or tomorrow but we cant deny that it IS a ridiculous situation that we essentially play the full season more or less, at home....
Counties should be able to canvas for external fundings of course, ie Club Kerry and Tyrone etc and keep that inhouse.
Funding should be on a population basis and evenly distributed, so if Dublin has 10 times more population than Kerry then they should get ten times more funding, but no more than that
This is just a start....." Fair play Liam, Iv been saying that about sponsorship for a while now it's not practical for the gaa to allow one county receive sponsorship money from a worldwide corporation while another has their local builder's merchants sponsoring them. All sponsors money should be split
Northsidegaels (Meath) - Posts: 237 - 06/09/2018 21:58:31
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Does anyone have a breakdown of the number of full time coaches employed in each county?
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11227 - 06/09/2018 22:38:30
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Replying To waynoI: "With all the complaining about money and population advantages, boring football etc.
I would just like to know what peoples ideal GAA would be.
Would maybe redrawing county lines and having 60 counties of equal area (size), with a split population of 100k per county, 10 clubs In said counties with 10k people per club, thus doing away with population advantages, splitting the bigger counties like Dublin into 8 (north,east, south, west, northeast, south east, northwest, south west), Cork into 6, Galway maybe into 4 or 5 etc)
Maybe split every single bit of money between those 60 counties then evenly doing away with the imbalance of monies dished.
Then on the pitch we can get 100pc of refereeing decisions right.
forwards have to stay inside their 45 and defenders aren't allowed outside of their 45 with the midfield only allowed between the two 45m lines.
I mean.. For all the complaining and constant moaning about the ills of the game and its association which from the onset was set up to be inherently unfair to the smaller counties,
But then, Is any sport on the planet fair ? Every simgle sport being played in my view is unfair, there is no perfect sport.
Im interested to hear what people want though, how they would make everything 100pc equal and make our sport, football in particular, so perfect so that there would be no longer complaints and nothing but praise for the organisation, the game, the volunteers etc.
Its impossible, if you expect/want fairness, sport isn't for you. Sorry" I think we need less team and not more Wayno. I'd like to see 20 teams instead of 32.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 06/09/2018 22:52:24
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My perfect GAA would be first taht the ignorant attempt to establish the truth, what exactly is the truth in funding? we simply do not know and those professing to know are chancer's and spoofer's as Mr Dunphy would say. And then and only then can we have a real honest discussion. AIG invest in Dublin because it is Dublin, the funds from AIG are divided out unequally among the four codes sponsored by them, the bulk goes to mens football, then hurling, then ladies football and finally camogie. So if we have NO problem accepting this in Dublin and see no problem with it why should anyone else outside of the county? Why should Dublin camogie give up the 45K it gets from AIG? is that fair? and give it to who? Leitrim footballers? Some of you are talking through your preverbials and some of you are ignorant Dubs to boot! looking for brownie points. The perfect GAA accepts a reality first, that Leitrim (my brother lives there and he loves the county sorry brother) will never win an All Ireland and no amount of money is going to make a blind bit of difference. The perfect GAA accepts that investing huge sums of money in Tyrone Hurling is not going to produce a tier 1 county. A perfect GAA accepts a county/area/region with a population such as Dublins requires 30% of available funding to just stay afloat and promote this sport. A perfect GAA accepts a club like Na Fianna in Dublin gets NO GAA funding, gets NO Dublin GAA funding and gets NO Govt funding so I wish people would accept the truth or else go dig a hole and bury themselves in it. Sick of these pointless circular arguments that cannot accept any reality. A perfect GAA accepts there are tier 1 (Senior), Tier 2 (Intermediate) and Tier 3 (Jun ior) counties as they do in Camogie and Ladies football, a dose of brutal reality is required. The ladies two codes are far and away more progressive than the Testosterone fueled world of GAA Gaelic Football (which is now walking the GAA up a cul de sac) for this is essentially what we are talking about. These topics do not occupy the minds of the Hurling community, Ladies football or Camogie just damn football which had an excruciating championship. A perfect GAA accepts we have problems and deal with the real issues. A perfect GAA allows Dublin build the 40K capacity stadium it needs, to develop its own club sport. Tomorrow night in Parnell Park is a great night of hurling, great crowds and NOT a single whinger present. And sorry to disappoint lads and lasses there is NO perfect GAA.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4895 - 06/09/2018 22:58:50
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Junior, senior and intermediate in all counties and inter county
All set up like Kerry club football with amalgamated teams entering Senior championship
Junior county championship
Leitrim, longford, Offaly, limerick, Waterford, Wicklow, London, New York, Antrim, Dublin City, Cork City, Galway City, Belfast, Kilkenny, USA, Britain
Intermediate County championship
Tipperary, Clare, Cork County, Roscommon, Fermanagh, Kildare, Meath, Down, Armagh, Wexford, Kerry North, Westmeath, Laois, Sligo, Carlow, Louth, Cavan
Senior County Championship
Fingal, Monaghan, Mayo, Galway County, Tyrone, Kerry South, South Dublin, Donegal
Senior Championship (Sam Maguire)
Fingal, Monaghan, Mayo, County Galway, Tyrone, Kerry South, South Dublin, Donegal, the Pale, Mide, Thomond, Desmond, Connacht, Leinster, Ailich, Ulaid
All county championships are league format - February and March
Senior Championship plays round robin in June and July with knock round in August.
Hurling could be run similarly
Current championships as they are but only 8 senior counties (Kilkenny, Galway, Limerick, Cork, Tipp, Wexford, Dublin, Clare)
4 regional districts added for Liam McCarthy cup competition Ulster, Leinster, Munster and Connacht
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1105 - 07/09/2018 00:46:44
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Replying To waynoI: "With all the complaining about money and population advantages, boring football etc.
I would just like to know what peoples ideal GAA would be.
Would maybe redrawing county lines and having 60 counties of equal area (size), with a split population of 100k per county, 10 clubs In said counties with 10k people per club, thus doing away with population advantages, splitting the bigger counties like Dublin into 8 (north,east, south, west, northeast, south east, northwest, south west), Cork into 6, Galway maybe into 4 or 5 etc)
Maybe split every single bit of money between those 60 counties then evenly doing away with the imbalance of monies dished.
Then on the pitch we can get 100pc of refereeing decisions right.
forwards have to stay inside their 45 and defenders aren't allowed outside of their 45 with the midfield only allowed between the two 45m lines.
I mean.. For all the complaining and constant moaning about the ills of the game and its association which from the onset was set up to be inherently unfair to the smaller counties,
But then, Is any sport on the planet fair ? Every simgle sport being played in my view is unfair, there is no perfect sport.
Im interested to hear what people want though, how they would make everything 100pc equal and make our sport, football in particular, so perfect so that there would be no longer complaints and nothing but praise for the organisation, the game, the volunteers etc.
Its impossible, if you expect/want fairness, sport isn't for you. Sorry" American football (NFL) is very fair .
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 07/09/2018 02:19:10
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Replying To Sweetspot: "Could there be tiered super 8 equivalents based on exit time from current championship structure?
ie. super 8's remaining the same,
8 teams knocked out in rd1 qualifiers become an 8 who play off for a trophy,
8 teams from rd 2 likewise
Same again from those out in rounds 3 and 4.
It would make the qualifiers tremendously interesting, giving teams like Wicklow, Waterford etc. something really to play for.. one win is a step up in tier and something to be celebrated and even if you're a team destined to be knocked out in round one, there's a chance of silverware.
It doesn't fix any of the financial injustices that currently exist but could make championships far more interesting.
I'd also imagine attendance numbers would rise largely in the small counties and otherwise due to not all games being able to be shown on tv" Having a chance to win silverware is one thing but I doubt those counties would place much value on it.
Essentially, it's every child gets a medal.
The GAA would be far better off putting coaches and funding into bringing those counties forward not giving them the chance of a booby prize.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 07/09/2018 07:38:36
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A GAA organisation that is selfless and totally focused on whats good for the game.
Every County trying to be the best they can be.
Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 07/09/2018 07:58:50
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GAA going professional, 12 teams in both Hurling and Football, weaker counties in football will merge so every county is represented in the new 12 team Premiership
PyatPree (Cork) - Posts: 376 - 07/09/2018 08:30:49
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But then, Is any sport on the planet fair ? Every simgle sport being played in my view is unfair, there is no perfect sport.
Im interested to hear what people want though, how they would make everything 100pc equal and make our sport, football in particular, so perfect so that there would be no longer complaints and nothing but praise for the organisation, the game, the volunteers etc.
Its impossible, if you expect/want fairness, sport isn't for you. Sorry
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 12942 - 06/09/2018 13:46:39 2139819
I would argue that the American sports get far closer to sporting "fairness" than European sports, ironically enough given that it's probably the other way round in terms of economics.
The draft and profit sharing make sure that small teams have a much greater chance of glory, and you don't tend to have the richest teams dominating endlessly.
Of course, the corollary of this is professionalism, which isn't (and shouldn't) be possible in gaelic sports, given that it would undermine the whole communitarian ethos of the games.
Bit of a pickle really.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 07/09/2018 08:37:54
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Replying To waynoI: "With all the complaining about money and population advantages, boring football etc.
I would just like to know what peoples ideal GAA would be.
Would maybe redrawing county lines and having 60 counties of equal area (size), with a split population of 100k per county, 10 clubs In said counties with 10k people per club, thus doing away with population advantages, splitting the bigger counties like Dublin into 8 (north,east, south, west, northeast, south east, northwest, south west), Cork into 6, Galway maybe into 4 or 5 etc)
Maybe split every single bit of money between those 60 counties then evenly doing away with the imbalance of monies dished.
Then on the pitch we can get 100pc of refereeing decisions right.
forwards have to stay inside their 45 and defenders aren't allowed outside of their 45 with the midfield only allowed between the two 45m lines.
I mean.. For all the complaining and constant moaning about the ills of the game and its association which from the onset was set up to be inherently unfair to the smaller counties,
But then, Is any sport on the planet fair ? Every simgle sport being played in my view is unfair, there is no perfect sport.
Im interested to hear what people want though, how they would make everything 100pc equal and make our sport, football in particular, so perfect so that there would be no longer complaints and nothing but praise for the organisation, the game, the volunteers etc.
Its impossible, if you expect/want fairness, sport isn't for you. Sorry" It's simple really, equality of opportunities, not outcomes. By this I mean the gaa is allegedly a amateur sport, so Leitrim must get same funding as dubs, not base it on population, but on inferstructe ,
Given out by each county or provincial council or even hq to be spent as they deem appropriate . Build a stadium for Dublin and leave Croke Park as a neutral venue. Things like the aig monies should be divided equally between all counties, so no matter who wears a logo it goes to good of all counties
Would the results be the same? Probably, but at least each county has equality of opportunity. No one can make outcome equal.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 07/09/2018 09:14:43
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Replying To PyatPree: "GAA going professional, 12 teams in both Hurling and Football, weaker counties in football will merge so every county is represented in the new 12 team Premiership" Similar to League of Ireland Soccer?
Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 07/09/2018 09:42:49
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Do people really think its possible to take Dublin out of Croke Park? Considering how corporate the GAA has become!
Croke Park itself is a big business. I'm sure the lad managing it is under pressure to have a healthy balance sheet. Taking the Dubs out of Croke Park is like taking Tiger Woods out of the PGA Tour
Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 07/09/2018 09:46:50
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I think the competitiveness in the GAA championship in the 90s was the high point of Gaelic games, but it has changed so much I don't see any way that we are ever going to get back to that.
To me the best thing we could do now at inter county level is to make the league the premier competition as it is the only meaningful one we have left.
Provincial championships are a waste of time. It's at the stage where you have to question the wisdom in throwing out up to €30 to watch meaningless encounters.
Super 8s this year were essentially just extra games in the summer for the division 1 teams while the rest kick their heels. They seem to be designed to generate revenue while widening the gap in standards.
Scrap the provincials, make the championship an open draw, straight knock-out and run it as the secondary competition to the league.
Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 07/09/2018 10:32:14
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yep scrap the provincials.
Would love to see man v man football again.
Too many mediocre players get by and look good "in the system"
woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 07/09/2018 11:18:50
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