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Replying To perfect10: "because when decisions go for any of us we aren't complaining.when they go against us we are up in arms,blaming the referee.what about a player making a bad pass,or a poor wide.are those mistakes not worth mentioning as being part of the reason why you lost the match?
why is all the focus always on the referee getting it wrong?
for what its worth,i thought there were a few frees both ways which the referee missed.
a referee has never ever got every decision correct in a match,the tempo of the game has sped up to a point where we either need 2 referees or to accept that they won't get every decision right.
kilkenny supporters are particularly moany at the referee every day they are out." With respect, a lot of your post is based on your opinions which you're entitled to have, rather than facts
"because when decisions go for any of us we aren't complaining" Who are "we" here, Wexford, everyone but Kilkenny? So "we" never complain about referees, is that your claim?
"what about a player making a bad pass,or a poor wide.are those mistakes not worth mentioning as being part of the reason why you lost the match? " Of course they are, I never made the claim that McGarth cost us the match. However I'm entitled to discuss the incidents in which he got things wrong that due to context of the incident were significant. These incidents have been highlighted in commentary and in the media today. All refs, like all players make mistakes, I never claimed otherwise
" for what its worth,i thought there were a few frees both ways which the referee missed" I agree, I think prior to the last few minutes, while his performance did contain mistakes, both teams could have little to complain about the distribution of the errors, both sides for example could push over the man rising the ball in the back with impunity for example.
You're here defending referees which is noble (I agree with how difficult a job it is), but there is a difference in discussing the impact the mistakes made on the game and lambasting the referee, calling for his head etc. which no one is doing
"kilkenny supporters are particularly moany at the referee every day they are out." Any stats to back this up or is this your opinion? Could this be an opinion influenced by Kilkenny being the most televised and with most involvement in high profile games in the last 15 years, and inevitably being involved in more than average contentious refereeing decisions?
Heftydickonem (Kilkenny) - Posts: 175 - 16/07/2018 12:57:47
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Replying To Heftydickonem: " Replying To perfect10: "because when decisions go for any of us we aren't complaining.when they go against us we are up in arms,blaming the referee.what about a player making a bad pass,or a poor wide.are those mistakes not worth mentioning as being part of the reason why you lost the match?
why is all the focus always on the referee getting it wrong?
for what its worth,i thought there were a few frees both ways which the referee missed.
a referee has never ever got every decision correct in a match,the tempo of the game has sped up to a point where we either need 2 referees or to accept that they won't get every decision right.
kilkenny supporters are particularly moany at the referee every day they are out." With respect, a lot of your post is based on your opinions which you're entitled to have, rather than facts "because when decisions go for any of us we aren't complaining" Who are "we" here, Wexford, everyone but Kilkenny? So "we" never complain about referees, is that your claim? "what about a player making a bad pass,or a poor wide.are those mistakes not worth mentioning as being part of the reason why you lost the match? " Of course they are, I never made the claim that McGarth cost us the match. However I'm entitled to discuss the incidents in which he got things wrong that due to context of the incident were significant. These incidents have been highlighted in commentary and in the media today. All refs, like all players make mistakes, I never claimed otherwise " for what its worth,i thought there were a few frees both ways which the referee missed" I agree, I think prior to the last few minutes, while his performance did contain mistakes, both teams could have little to complain about the distribution of the errors, both sides for example could push over the man rising the ball in the back with impunity for example. You're here defending referees which is noble (I agree with how difficult a job it is), but there is a difference in discussing the impact the mistakes made on the game and lambasting the referee, calling for his head etc. which no one is doing "kilkenny supporters are particularly moany at the referee every day they are out." Any stats to back this up or is this your opinion? Could this be an opinion influenced by Kilkenny being the most televised and with most involvement in high profile games in the last 15 years, and inevitably being involved in more than average contentious refereeing decisions?"
Limerick were the better team overall. It's just a pity our refs are poor.
Sheedy (Galway) - Posts: 107 - 16/07/2018 13:15:32
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Heftydickonem when a score or 2 decides a match whether or not the free is missed in the first or the 70th minute is irrelevant.the one in the 70th minute always gets the attention.
"kilkenny supporters are particularly moany at the referee every day they are out." Any stats to back this up or is this your opinion? my opinion,i have seen wexford play most of the big counties over the years and kilkenny are by far the worst for booing decisions,ironically cheering the referee when they get a free (they have introduced that to hurling).how i can back it up with a stat instead of my opinion i dont know.i have also on occasion got free tickets to bigger matches and went as a neutral and i still concur that that is the case.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 16/07/2018 14:01:04
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I was at the game, fantastic viewing for a Neutral although I was leaning towards the Leinster team for the win. My observations were:
After all Brian Cody has delivered for the County, Kilkenny's support yesterday was nothing short of scandalous. Not really noticeable on tv when I watched back but every time there was a Kilkenny score there were a few claps but when Limerick got a score they lifted the roof. This definitely had an effect on the players.
I noticed one poster said TJ Reid was poor. Had KK won he'd of been up there for MOTM in my opinion. The amount of work he did off the ball (i.e. probably missed on tv) was unbelievable. He chased, harassed and hooked at every opportunity. Caught some great balls and brought other forwards into play with flicks and runs to draw defenders after him, at one stage he was even being double marked. I myself thought he was unreal yesterday.
On the referee, I thought he made some poor calls on both sides throughout the game. The Donnelly one was even questioned by the Limerick people beside me and it was probably most noticeable because it was towards the end of the game. Overall I think these things usually even themselves out.
On the overall game, wides tally I believe was 18 points to 8. You cannot hit that many wides at this level and expect to live to tell the tale. Kilkenny only have themselves to blame.
On the remainder of the Championship, my preference for the win now would be Limerick however, I'm going for a repeat of the 2013 final. I see Clare catching Galway with the short game and I see Cork beating Limerick. Kilkenny probably have their worst set of 6 forwards since the pre DJ era and yet they had over 40 shots at the target. That has to be a worry for Limerick with the quality Cork have upfront.
Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 16/07/2018 14:05:13
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Replying To perfect10: "Heftydickonem when a score or 2 decides a match whether or not the free is missed in the first or the 70th minute is irrelevant.the one in the 70th minute always gets the attention.
"kilkenny supporters are particularly moany at the referee every day they are out." Any stats to back this up or is this your opinion? my opinion,i have seen wexford play most of the big counties over the years and kilkenny are by far the worst for booing decisions,ironically cheering the referee when they get a free (they have introduced that to hurling).how i can back it up with a stat instead of my opinion i dont know.i have also on occasion got free tickets to bigger matches and went as a neutral and i still concur that that is the case." I go to most games regardless of who's playing and I would disagree hugely with that statement. Every county does it and KK certainly didn't introduce it. Several times yesterday Limerick supporters booed the ref. (In most cases rightly so)
Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 16/07/2018 14:07:26
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Replying To perfect10: "Heftydickonem when a score or 2 decides a match whether or not the free is missed in the first or the 70th minute is irrelevant.the one in the 70th minute always gets the attention.
"kilkenny supporters are particularly moany at the referee every day they are out." Any stats to back this up or is this your opinion? my opinion,i have seen wexford play most of the big counties over the years and kilkenny are by far the worst for booing decisions,ironically cheering the referee when they get a free (they have introduced that to hurling).how i can back it up with a stat instead of my opinion i dont know.i have also on occasion got free tickets to bigger matches and went as a neutral and i still concur that that is the case." Well you're entitled to that opinion of course (although I don't know how you can say with any certainty that they introduced ironically cheering a referee to the game)
Personally I wouldn't state that Kilkenny fans are innocent in that regard, far from it, booing has become a not infrequent occurence at some Kilkenny games in Nowlan park, but I'd claim that they are not any worse than many other county's fans. Wexford park last year when Colin Fennelly was systematically pulled to ground everytime he got the ball lead to a lot booing too, maybe you were at that game?
On a related point I have never, ever witnessed Kilkenny fans shouting, whistling and roaring while a free was been taken, like we saw in Thurles last Sunday against in Galway vs KK and particularly yesterday in KK vs LK
Heftydickonem (Kilkenny) - Posts: 175 - 16/07/2018 14:21:01
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On a related point I have never, ever witnessed Kilkenny fans shouting, whistling and roaring while a free was been taken, like we saw in Thurles last Sunday against in Galway vs KK and particularly yesterday in KK vs LK
Heftydickonem (Kilkenny) -
i will pretty much entirely agree with you on that.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 16/07/2018 14:29:07
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Congrats to Limerick. Beating Kilkenny for the first time in championship since 1973is great progress. The game with Cork the next day is 50/50, I hope they have learned from 2013 when they seemed to get too caught up in the hype before they played Clare.
If I was to sum up Kilkenny in one thought it is seeing 19 year olds like Keoghan playing yesterday for Kilkenny because in the height of the Cody era you were doing well to break into the team at 22. This is no disrespect to the young fella. It is a reflection on now and then. The pipeline of really strong players year on year seems to have dried up a little. I think Kilkenny will come roaring back. Once Hogan gets back to full health and assuming Murphy and Fennelly aren't serving overseas they should be strong again next year.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 16/07/2018 14:29:25
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Replying To Faithfull: "I was at the game, fantastic viewing for a Neutral although I was leaning towards the Leinster team for the win. My observations were:
After all Brian Cody has delivered for the County, Kilkenny's support yesterday was nothing short of scandalous. Not really noticeable on tv when I watched back but every time there was a Kilkenny score there were a few claps but when Limerick got a score they lifted the roof. This definitely had an effect on the players.
I noticed one poster said TJ Reid was poor. Had KK won he'd of been up there for MOTM in my opinion. The amount of work he did off the ball (i.e. probably missed on tv) was unbelievable. He chased, harassed and hooked at every opportunity. Caught some great balls and brought other forwards into play with flicks and runs to draw defenders after him, at one stage he was even being double marked. I myself thought he was unreal yesterday.
On the referee, I thought he made some poor calls on both sides throughout the game. The Donnelly one was even questioned by the Limerick people beside me and it was probably most noticeable because it was towards the end of the game. Overall I think these things usually even themselves out.
On the overall game, wides tally I believe was 18 points to 8. You cannot hit that many wides at this level and expect to live to tell the tale. Kilkenny only have themselves to blame.
On the remainder of the Championship, my preference for the win now would be Limerick however, I'm going for a repeat of the 2013 final. I see Clare catching Galway with the short game and I see Cork beating Limerick. Kilkenny probably have their worst set of 6 forwards since the pre DJ era and yet they had over 40 shots at the target. That has to be a worry for Limerick with the quality Cork have upfront." On Clare's chance of catching Galway with 'the short game', you do know that it's a hurling match on Saturday week, it's not golf.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3410 - 16/07/2018 14:40:41
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Replying To Pope_Benedict: "On Clare's chance of catching Galway with 'the short game', you do know that it's a hurling match on Saturday week, it's not golf." I didn't know that. Must be the confusion from all the 'birdie's' the Galway players have been getting since last September.
Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 16/07/2018 15:33:45
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Would be great to see Limerick winning the All Ireland...can't see it this year though
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11227 - 16/07/2018 17:16:16
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: "Limerick need to show whats swinging between their legs if they really are to be considered AI contenders this year or the immediate future.
bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2139 - 10/07/2018 13:00:30 2120357
Hopefully, after Sunday's game, it'll be their tails." I think their tails are up now. So much for your wishes
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4316 - 16/07/2018 19:12:03
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Replying To someday: "Limerick have no scoring threat? 28 pints in cork with 14 men i think 22 or 23 from play fair enough if you dont think they'll win but i think you're wrong on scoring threat and by the way who's wexfords 1 or 2 marquee players?" And 24 points from play yesterday and could have scored two, three or maybe four goals only for a massive display of goalkeeping by the Glenmore man.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4316 - 16/07/2018 19:14:26
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Replying To 890202: "Refereeing was poor. John Donnelly denied a blatant free and limerick go straight up the other end to score a point. That was the turning point at the end" Have any of you noticed the number of times Aroon Gullane 'lost' his hurley, when trying his to get to the ball. The fact is Limerick got two frees inside midfield in the entire game, so you could hardly say James McGrath favoured Limerick. It was a great pity Barry Kelly was not referring it.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4316 - 16/07/2018 19:18:46
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Replying To Heftydickonem: "You're another poster who accuses Kilkenny players of committing an offence that is done by every decent intercounty team in the game, and as for "cuteness", one of the most cynical pieces of play ever seen in the modern game was performed by a Limerick player in the monsoon game in Croke Park against Kilkenny, tripping up Richie Power as he was through on goal, minutes after the same player should have been sent off for pulling across the head of a Kilkenny defender. You can state I'm reaching back in time to provide this example, but I guarantee you the cliched accusations of "dart arts, playing on the edge" that people continue to spew out weren't earned by the current Kilkenny team
Another aspect of cuteness that Limerick players over the last few seasons have not been found wanting, is the initiate jostling and then hit the deck like a tonne of bricks, hoping to get their opponent sent off, not the "the most honest and genuine" really is it? No I don't think you've anything to worry about on the cuteness front
And as for the ref had no bearing on the result? The ref allowed two head high challenges on Kilkenny players in the final minutes of the game go unpunished, not even advantage played, when the game was very much up for grabs, how is that not have a bearing on the result? The ref was poor, but these things happen, he made mistakes and we all have to live with them, he should not face punishment or abuse, but nor should people be forced to not discuss his performance.
Overall Limerick deserved the win, they caused Kilkenny untold trouble at the back but Kilkenny could have snatched a draw or win but for McGrath ignoring those incidents when the game was in the melting pot" Just play the tape of the first ten minutes of the 2007 All Ireland Final and it will tell you all you need to know about Kilkenny fair play. If you give it you should learn to take and dont be like Mulligan's dog.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4316 - 16/07/2018 19:29:08
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Replying To Oldtourman: "Just play the tape of the first ten minutes of the 2007 All Ireland Final and it will tell you all you need to know about Kilkenny fair play. If you give it you should learn to take and dont be like Mulligan's dog." How many head challenges did Kilkenny get away with in those ten minutes?
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2446 - 16/07/2018 20:11:08
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: "How many head challenges did Kilkenny get away with in those ten minutes?" Four
Westfester (Limerick) - Posts: 941 - 16/07/2018 20:21:44
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Replying To Oldtourman: " Replying To Cockney_Cat: "Limerick need to show whats swinging between their legs if they really are to be considered AI contenders this year or the immediate future.
bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2139 - 10/07/2018 13:00:30 2120357
Hopefully, after Sunday's game, it'll be their tails." I think their tails are up now. So much for your wishes"
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2446 - 16/07/2018 20:21:54
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: " Replying To Oldtourman: "[quote=Cockney_Cat: "Limerick need to show whats swinging between their legs if they really are to be considered AI contenders this year or the immediate future.
bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2139 - 10/07/2018 13:00:30 2120357
Hopefully, after Sunday's game, it'll be their tails." I think their tails are up now. So much for your wishes"
PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1355 - 16/07/2018 20:48:16
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Replying To Oldtourman: "Just play the tape of the first ten minutes of the 2007 All Ireland Final and it will tell you all you need to know about Kilkenny fair play. If you give it you should learn to take and dont be like Mulligan's dog." A pretty pointless, irrelevant post that shows that you either didn't read my post correctly and didn't understand the points made, since I have nowhere claimed that Kilkenny are/were angels. It was in response to a previous post where it was stated that "Limerick are one of the most honest and genuine team out there and if anything lack that bit of "cuteness"" while at the same time making accusations about how Kilkenny play.
"If you give it you should learn to take and don't be like Mulligan's dog" Nowhere have I complained about how Limerick play, not once, they're not even a physical team in my mind, I'd be more concerned about their habit of initiating trouble then hitting the deck to get lads sent off in fact. Take the shoulder to the face on TJ Reid that should resulted in red card in the first half for example, there has been very little talk of that, should we going on about that in 11 years time like ye are about poor Seamus and big bad Eddie?
Heftydickonem (Kilkenny) - Posts: 175 - 16/07/2018 20:48:32
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