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Dublin Getting 2 Home Games In The Super 8s. Fair Or Unfair?

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Replying To Joxer:  "I wonder will Jimmy's winning matches now bestow upon his the honour of "less tainted legacy" now that we took Tyrone down in Omagh or do we have to beat every county away now in the championship before our untainted legacy can be achieved. Paper never refused ink as they say."
You still don't get it joxer.

This whole thing was never a crack at Dublin but was against the way HQ was loading the championship in Dublin's favour so that they could get big crowds into Croke Park to pay for the dammed thing.

An unintended consequence of this approach has been that people are now losing interest in what they see as a rigged championship & that has to feed through to how Dublin's achievements are regarded.

I think this is a great Dublin team but to get the same respect as say Kerry, then they have to play on a flat playing surface the same as everyone else & part of that involves playing big games away from home & spreading the funding out.

Again, this is not a crack at Jim Gavin or the Dublin players but rather a cosy & corrupt consensus at the top levels in our games.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 22/07/2018 11:11:39    2124599

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Replying To Joxer:  "Boo hoo. "The ref was biased as usual". Listen to yourself kid. It's like a broken record. That's 25 championship games in a row unbeaten. You don't do that with biased refs. It's just class. Name your venue, narrow your pitch, gather the hostile crowd. At the end of the day, we'll let our talent do the talking 15 v 15. If you're good enough you're good enough."
He is some moaner alright Joxer. Broken record is an understatement.
This is another guy who wants Dublin taken out of Leinster...

And the biggest Irony of it all is that the Ref he is whinging about, is from his own county of Meath..
LOL

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3727 - 22/07/2018 18:36:27    2124794

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Replying To MuckrossHead:  "You still don't get it joxer.

This whole thing was never a crack at Dublin but was against the way HQ was loading the championship in Dublin's favour so that they could get big crowds into Croke Park to pay for the dammed thing.

An unintended consequence of this approach has been that people are now losing interest in what they see as a rigged championship & that has to feed through to how Dublin's achievements are regarded.

I think this is a great Dublin team but to get the same respect as say Kerry, then they have to play on a flat playing surface the same as everyone else & part of that involves playing big games away from home & spreading the funding out.

Again, this is not a crack at Jim Gavin or the Dublin players but rather a cosy & corrupt consensus at the top levels in our games."
We don;t get it? This is not a crack at Dublin right on on and then in the same post you state "but was against the way HQ was loading the championship in Dublin's favour" catch yourself on will you.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 22/07/2018 19:13:30    2124812

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "in fairness you could ask this Dublin team to play their 3 super 8 games out on Tory island and they'd likely still win all 3 games without hardly breaking a sweat, who can stop them? looks like Galway or maybe Tyrone if they get another crack at them in Croker in the final. Monaghan will end Kerry's season tomorrow."
Excellent post.

Tory Island ... ;o)

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3727 - 22/07/2018 19:30:17    2124821

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Replying To arock:  "We don;t get it? This is not a crack at Dublin right on on and then in the same post you state "but was against the way HQ was loading the championship in Dublin's favour" catch yourself on will you."
I have tried the best I can to explain things but either I am not doing it well or some Dublin supporters are in a perpetual state of victimhood.

Bit of both probably.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 22/07/2018 23:29:26    2124941

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it's not a case of saying this team aren't one of the greats, its a case of "what if". what if Dublin played donegal in a neutral venue? what if Dublin played in aughrim and dr cullen park when they were drawn away? what if Dublin actually played away matches pre 2016? again, not a crack at Dublin gaa or their players but at the gaa for their corrupt nature and how they are effectively using Dublin for money while leaving the rest behind.

NaomhNaille (Donegal) - Posts: 124 - 23/07/2018 09:42:29    2124997

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Replying To NaomhNaille:  "it's not a case of saying this team aren't one of the greats, its a case of "what if". what if Dublin played donegal in a neutral venue? what if Dublin played in aughrim and dr cullen park when they were drawn away? what if Dublin actually played away matches pre 2016? again, not a crack at Dublin gaa or their players but at the gaa for their corrupt nature and how they are effectively using Dublin for money while leaving the rest behind."
Well I think you should look at all of the away games that this Dublin team has played, count up the victories and draw your own conclusions. I see Kerry was held up as a standard bearer by Muck. What if Kerry didn't win 2 AIs by only winning 3 matches. What if Kerry and Cork were not the only two contenders in a hurling province every year.... The fact is this Dublin team have beaten the cream of the crop consistently now in competitive matches in Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone, Monaghan, Donegal... "Tainted legacy" charges by ex managers is cheap talk and can't be evidenced when you look at this magnificent team's record.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 23/07/2018 09:58:21    2125009

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What if nothing. Dublin were playing Leinster finals and big All-Ireland quarters and semis in Croke Park for years and were called perennial chokers. That changed in 2011. This team is probably the greatest that's ever lived. Jim was way out of line suggesting their legacy is tainted or that there would be an asterisk beside these wins. It was the wrong point to make in a debate that all GAA people, Dubs included, were agreed that this years setup wasn't fair.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 23/07/2018 10:23:17    2125022

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Replying To Joxer:  "Well I think you should look at all of the away games that this Dublin team has played, count up the victories and draw your own conclusions. I see Kerry was held up as a standard bearer by Muck. What if Kerry didn't win 2 AIs by only winning 3 matches. What if Kerry and Cork were not the only two contenders in a hurling province every year.... The fact is this Dublin team have beaten the cream of the crop consistently now in competitive matches in Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone, Monaghan, Donegal... "Tainted legacy" charges by ex managers is cheap talk and can't be evidenced when you look at this magnificent team's record."
You can't count away games in the league as all teams bar Dublin are just experimenting with their teams and different formations.

Also no Leinster refs should be allowed reff Dublin games and especially refs that are living and working within Dublin as there will be a conflict of interest . There are plenty of refs from other provinces.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 23/07/2018 10:49:42    2125038

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Replying To MuckrossHead:  "I have tried the best I can to explain things but either I am not doing it well or some Dublin supporters are in a perpetual state of victimhood.

Bit of both probably."
And yet you've used a term like 'rigged' and, similar to Jim McGuinness, you've suggested that there should be an asterisk beside their titles won.
I'm all for open debate on these matters but surely you can see that Dubs just might take some quotes like these as having a pop at them. Currently on twitter you have other well known journalists stating such 'facts' as that only 6 of the starting team on Saturday, started game one of 2015, therefore this isn't a once in a generation team. Call me mad but using such logic between a Leinster Quarter final and a 2nd round Super 8's game (with all to play for) is a little bit disingenuous to make such a point. If you applied the same logic to the great Kilkenny team of the previous decade, they had quite a few differences between say game 1 of 2006 to the AI final in 2009. Would anyone class that Kilkenny team and the conveyor belt of talent that came through them in the same period as not a once in a generation team?
Nothing bitter about a fact. But when you pick arbitrary facts out of the air like that, on a consistent basis, then yeah, I think people are going to start thinking you're having a pop at them.

keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 23/07/2018 11:18:48    2125072

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Replying To keithlemon:  "And yet you've used a term like 'rigged' and, similar to Jim McGuinness, you've suggested that there should be an asterisk beside their titles won.
I'm all for open debate on these matters but surely you can see that Dubs just might take some quotes like these as having a pop at them. Currently on twitter you have other well known journalists stating such 'facts' as that only 6 of the starting team on Saturday, started game one of 2015, therefore this isn't a once in a generation team. Call me mad but using such logic between a Leinster Quarter final and a 2nd round Super 8's game (with all to play for) is a little bit disingenuous to make such a point. If you applied the same logic to the great Kilkenny team of the previous decade, they had quite a few differences between say game 1 of 2006 to the AI final in 2009. Would anyone class that Kilkenny team and the conveyor belt of talent that came through them in the same period as not a once in a generation team?
Nothing bitter about a fact. But when you pick arbitrary facts out of the air like that, on a consistent basis, then yeah, I think people are going to start thinking you're having a pop at them."
Good post.

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 23/07/2018 12:12:52    2125121

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "You can't count away games in the league as all teams bar Dublin are just experimenting with their teams and different formations.

Also no Leinster refs should be allowed reff Dublin games and especially refs that are living and working within Dublin as there will be a conflict of interest . There are plenty of refs from other provinces."
Now its the refs ! wouldn't make any difference if refs from other provinces were used ,
you would still find something else to whinge about , your obsessed with Dublin.

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 23/07/2018 12:42:13    2125137

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Replying To Joxer:  "Well I think you should look at all of the away games that this Dublin team has played, count up the victories and draw your own conclusions. I see Kerry was held up as a standard bearer by Muck. What if Kerry didn't win 2 AIs by only winning 3 matches. What if Kerry and Cork were not the only two contenders in a hurling province every year.... The fact is this Dublin team have beaten the cream of the crop consistently now in competitive matches in Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone, Monaghan, Donegal... "Tainted legacy" charges by ex managers is cheap talk and can't be evidenced when you look at this magnificent team's record."
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Article above on Dublin Region's form since league games moved to Croke Park in 2011.

Their move to Croke Park for the league of 2011 has created a new dynamic. There needs to be a healthy discussion on this.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7840 - 24/07/2018 21:30:54    2125908

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Replying To legendzxix:  "link

Article above on Dublin Region's form since league games moved to Croke Park in 2011.

Their move to Croke Park for the league of 2011 has created a new dynamic. There needs to be a healthy discussion on this."
Strange that Clerkin doesn't seem to draw a correlation between Dublin's home record during this period and the emergence of the greatest team, said Dublin side, to ever play the game. Is Clerkin suggesting, he seems to be, that this home form is purely down to the venue? Had the Dublin team of the 00s been ensconced in Croke Park for a decade, would they too have reeled off such a plethora of home wins in the league? Would HQ have been the driver? What of the present Dublin team's away form in the league? They have a stunning record. Is Croke Park also driving these away stats? Clerkin seems confused and his shoddy attempt to link the venue and the league successes of this team, the greatest to play the game according to most, is weak to say the least. Most diehard Dubs would prefer to drag our opponents into the lions den that is the Neller for league games where the opposition would feel the Dubs supporters breathing down their neck when they take a pass, instead of sitting in a half empty 80K soulless stadium where the opposition are not intimidated and they know the pitch as well as the champions.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 24/07/2018 23:49:38    2125970

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Replying To Joxer:  "
Replying To legendzxix:  "link

Article above on Dublin Region's form since league games moved to Croke Park in 2011.

Their move to Croke Park for the league of 2011 has created a new dynamic. There needs to be a healthy discussion on this."
Strange that Clerkin doesn't seem to draw a correlation between Dublin's home record during this period and the emergence of the greatest team, said Dublin side, to ever play the game. Is Clerkin suggesting, he seems to be, that this home form is purely down to the venue? Had the Dublin team of the 00s been ensconced in Croke Park for a decade, would they too have reeled off such a plethora of home wins in the league? Would HQ have been the driver? What of the present Dublin team's away form in the league? They have a stunning record. Is Croke Park also driving these away stats? Clerkin seems confused and his shoddy attempt to link the venue and the league successes of this team, the greatest to play the game according to most, is weak to say the least. Most diehard Dubs would prefer to drag our opponents into the lions den that is the Neller for league games where the opposition would feel the Dubs supporters breathing down their neck when they take a pass, instead of sitting in a half empty 80K soulless stadium where the opposition are not intimidated and they know the pitch as well as the champions."
Just as it's up to Leinster and Ulster counties to lobby against any the provincial imbalance, it's up to counties to row in behind Donegal if any motion is brought forward for a neutral venue for the first round of the Super 8.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7840 - 25/07/2018 10:41:37    2126020

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Replying To legendzxix:  "
Replying To Joxer:  "[quote=legendzxix:  "link

Article above on Dublin Region's form since league games moved to Croke Park in 2011.

Their move to Croke Park for the league of 2011 has created a new dynamic. There needs to be a healthy discussion on this."
Strange that Clerkin doesn't seem to draw a correlation between Dublin's home record during this period and the emergence of the greatest team, said Dublin side, to ever play the game. Is Clerkin suggesting, he seems to be, that this home form is purely down to the venue? Had the Dublin team of the 00s been ensconced in Croke Park for a decade, would they too have reeled off such a plethora of home wins in the league? Would HQ have been the driver? What of the present Dublin team's away form in the league? They have a stunning record. Is Croke Park also driving these away stats? Clerkin seems confused and his shoddy attempt to link the venue and the league successes of this team, the greatest to play the game according to most, is weak to say the least. Most diehard Dubs would prefer to drag our opponents into the lions den that is the Neller for league games where the opposition would feel the Dubs supporters breathing down their neck when they take a pass, instead of sitting in a half empty 80K soulless stadium where the opposition are not intimidated and they know the pitch as well as the champions."
Just as it's up to Leinster and Ulster counties to lobby against any the provincial imbalance, it's up to counties to row in behind Donegal if any motion is brought forward for a neutral venue for the first round of the Super 8."]Nobody is going to object to this, least of all Dublin, who love traveling away and have beaten all comers. away fom home. But, Dublin are box office and the ground has to be suitably sized, like Healy, to give ST holders a run at a ticket. I'm sure the likes of Donegal, Mayo, Monaghan love playing Dublin in Croke Park, and certainly over the Neller any day, as their experienced players are just as familiar with the pitch at HQ as Dublin's at this stage.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 25/07/2018 17:05:12    2126184

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Replying To legendzxix:  "link

Article above on Dublin Region's form since league games moved to Croke Park in 2011.

Their move to Croke Park for the league of 2011 has created a new dynamic. There needs to be a healthy discussion on this."
"Correlation does not imply causation".
Logical fallacy. Been here before, haven't we.

Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 382 - 25/07/2018 18:06:13    2126210

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Another Saturday night match for the Semi, boss.

Bit disappointed it's not a double header in Newbridge but we will bear our burden.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 25/07/2018 20:11:34    2126237

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Replying To Joxer:  "
Replying To legendzxix:  "[quote=Joxer:  "[quote=legendzxix:  "link

Article above on Dublin Region's form since league games moved to Croke Park in 2011.

Their move to Croke Park for the league of 2011 has created a new dynamic. There needs to be a healthy discussion on this."
Strange that Clerkin doesn't seem to draw a correlation between Dublin's home record during this period and the emergence of the greatest team, said Dublin side, to ever play the game. Is Clerkin suggesting, he seems to be, that this home form is purely down to the venue? Had the Dublin team of the 00s been ensconced in Croke Park for a decade, would they too have reeled off such a plethora of home wins in the league? Would HQ have been the driver? What of the present Dublin team's away form in the league? They have a stunning record. Is Croke Park also driving these away stats? Clerkin seems confused and his shoddy attempt to link the venue and the league successes of this team, the greatest to play the game according to most, is weak to say the least. Most diehard Dubs would prefer to drag our opponents into the lions den that is the Neller for league games where the opposition would feel the Dubs supporters breathing down their neck when they take a pass, instead of sitting in a half empty 80K soulless stadium where the opposition are not intimidated and they know the pitch as well as the champions."
Just as it's up to Leinster and Ulster counties to lobby against any the provincial imbalance, it's up to counties to row in behind Donegal if any motion is brought forward for a neutral venue for the first round of the Super 8."]Nobody is going to object to this, least of all Dublin, who love traveling away and have beaten all comers. away fom home. But, Dublin are box office and the ground has to be suitably sized, like Healy, to give ST holders a run at a ticket. I'm sure the likes of Donegal, Mayo, Monaghan love playing Dublin in Croke Park, and certainly over the Neller any day, as their experienced players are just as familiar with the pitch at HQ as Dublin's at this stage."]In 2001, the Kerry county board preferred a toss of a coin for home advantage instead of Thurles being used.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7840 - 25/07/2018 21:02:50    2126248

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "You can't count away games in the league as all teams bar Dublin are just experimenting with their teams and different formations.

Also no Leinster refs should be allowed reff Dublin games and especially refs that are living and working within Dublin as there will be a conflict of interest . There are plenty of refs from other provinces."
The point about the referee here is very valid whether people like this or not.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 25/07/2018 21:20:56    2126253

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