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I cant say I came away from Cullen Park with any optimism. I predicted that management would try packing tje defense and leave young Kenny up front. Great we didnt get beat out the gate and now look forward to a bit of a run in the back door. But were still in Div4 abd getting out of that is more important. Most important to get new management into place quick and work for promotion.

hurlingnut (Wicklow) - Posts: 232 - 12/05/2019 23:24:18    2183456

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Replying To Freethinker:  "It won't get any easier next year. Carlow and Sligo coming down ??"
I don't think it can get any worse to be honest

dubarra (Wicklow) - Posts: 393 - 14/05/2019 13:27:41    2183965

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "A chance missed last night; when the goal went in, we had good chance to draw level, we had the momentum but didn't take the chance and let kildare off the hook. Hopefully the players can take heart from last night and get a couple of games in the qualifiers. If you take dublin out of the equation there is not much between other teams in the province, this should give wicklow heart for the future but as a county we need to continue developing and building each year."
The only reason we were still in the the game was because of Kildares inadequacies the game should have been over long before the goal. No direction or any idea how to play whats so ever from the management. The sooner this guy hits the road the better .Then going on TV to tell us the progress that's been made does he think we are all blind or have no idea in Wicklow.

dubarra (Wicklow) - Posts: 393 - 14/05/2019 13:39:49    2183972

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Replying To dubarra:  "The only reason we were still in the the game was because of Kildares inadequacies the game should have been over long before the goal. No direction or any idea how to play whats so ever from the management. The sooner this guy hits the road the better .Then going on TV to tell us the progress that's been made does he think we are all blind or have no idea in Wicklow."
What would you suggest management should have done to make us more competitive dubarra? I think a lot of people realise that management and players are doing what they can based upon certain limitations. I doubt different players or manager would fare any better. Equally, the priority has to be underage and bringing through better quality players but this will take 5 to 10 years. At least there are some good signs in this direction.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 997 - 14/05/2019 16:54:40    2184046

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "What would you suggest management should have done to make us more competitive dubarra? I think a lot of people realise that management and players are doing what they can based upon certain limitations. I doubt different players or manager would fare any better. Equally, the priority has to be underage and bringing through better quality players but this will take 5 to 10 years. At least there are some good signs in this direction."
I would be inclined to agree with Wicklowsupport in his observations. Most people are agreed that we are as good as we are. There are no more players out there who are better than what we have on the panel. If there are, they don't want to be involved for whatever reason. No intercounty manager is going to go around with a begging bowl to round up any players with a chip on their shoulders no matter what the perceived grievance. If there are "better" players out there, the best of luck to them and may they be very happy with their lot. I still believe we are on the right course and if we get another management team, I doubt if they could do any better than keep the panel we have improving and hopefully be able to slot in some of the 16/17 /18 yr olds as soon as they are ready. Then maybe we could look forward to a sustained promotion drive.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 99 - 14/05/2019 18:11:04    2184071

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "What would you suggest management should have done to make us more competitive dubarra? I think a lot of people realise that management and players are doing what they can based upon certain limitations. I doubt different players or manager would fare any better. Equally, the priority has to be underage and bringing through better quality players but this will take 5 to 10 years. At least there are some good signs in this direction."
Well the first thing he should have done was to tell the goalkeeper to stop trying to make an all star out of Kevin Feely.We let Kildare walk the ball out of defence because we played 13 men behind the ball our goal scorer was taken off 5 minutes after scoring the goal two natural forwards no free taker. Need I go on? I do agree that with you about looking afer our underage as we have some very promising young lads from this yrs and last yrs panels. I would hope that the present minor management will move up with the under 20s next season. Also I'm told that nothing is happening with this yrs under 20s at the moment. Im open to correction on that one

dubarra (Wicklow) - Posts: 393 - 14/05/2019 18:36:32    2184079

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "What would you suggest management should have done to make us more competitive dubarra? I think a lot of people realise that management and players are doing what they can based upon certain limitations. I doubt different players or manager would fare any better. Equally, the priority has to be underage and bringing through better quality players but this will take 5 to 10 years. At least there are some good signs in this direction."
I would be inclined to agree with Wicklowsupport in his observations. Most people are agreed that we are as good as we are. There are no more players out there who are better than what we have on the panel. If there are, they don't want to be involved for whatever reason. No intercounty manager is going to go around with a begging bowl to round up any players with a chip on their shoulders no matter what the perceived grievance. If there are "better" players out there, the best of luck to them and may they be very happy with their lot. I still believe we are on the right course and if we get another management team, I doubt if they could do any better than keep the panel we have improving and hopefully be able to slot in some of the 16/17 /18 yr olds as soon as they are ready. Then maybe we could look forward to a sustained promotion drive.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 99 - 14/05/2019 18:48:14    2184084

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Replying To dubarra:  "Well the first thing he should have done was to tell the goalkeeper to stop trying to make an all star out of Kevin Feely.We let Kildare walk the ball out of defence because we played 13 men behind the ball our goal scorer was taken off 5 minutes after scoring the goal two natural forwards no free taker. Need I go on? I do agree that with you about looking afer our underage as we have some very promising young lads from this yrs and last yrs panels. I would hope that the present minor management will move up with the under 20s next season. Also I'm told that nothing is happening with this yrs under 20s at the moment. Im open to correction on that one"
In fairness to you Dubarra, you have a point about continually kicking the ball out to an obviously superior catcher. All the papers commented on Feeleys catching. Indeed Feeley may have made team of the weekend as a result. Over the years I have never ceased to be amazed at how many keepers continually kick the ball out to the same spot on the field regardless of who catches it. You would imagine they would devise some way of taking the return pressure off their own backline and subsequently themselves. Hurling keepers can't be exonerated from this practice either. Over the past few seasons the keeper from one of the top 3 hurling counties continually rained balls down on his half forward line who in turn lost about 8 of every 10 to the opposing half backs. No prizes for guessing. But then, is Staff not still the best midfielder in the county, even at his age??. Maybe this tells its own story. We have been lucky over the years with some outstanding fielders but we never have had a glut of them at any one time. If we don't have midfielders who can win ball, then what ?? We have seen in recent years how dangerous the short kick out can be, even in All Ireland finals.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 99 - 14/05/2019 19:11:30    2184094

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Fair points in relation to the kickout; we should have varied it and kept it away from Kevin feely who is probably the best footballer in kildare. Also I am not in favour of the blanket defence we have employed. I would have preferred if we had run at kildare as we did for the goal as oppose to worrying about the Kildare attack which has been misfiring all season. We probably gave them too much respect as they have some issues of their own. Unfortunately we can't and shouldn't rush through our underage players; I would say we need to be patient for a few years and hope that we can develop further in the meantime.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 997 - 14/05/2019 19:39:18    2184103

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I dont think it is a matter of just varying the kick out. The modern game is dictated by tje goalkeepers decisions. And if you doubt that look at Cluxton role in setting the greatest team of our time forward.
The management must work with the keeper to devise a coherint plan and tjis is not achieved by shouting from the line.
We dont have a plan other than pack the defense and hope to keep the score down. I had hoped for different but I dont think this management have brought any improvement.

hurlingnut (Wicklow) - Posts: 232 - 14/05/2019 21:40:44    2184144

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I do disagree that the current management have limitations but unfortunately we have to make do with what we have and try to progress else we may as well all stay at home. Who would we get if we were to replace the current management team in the morning? And if we were to replace them with another management team, would the results be any different? I would safely say 'no'. I would like to see us get out of Division 4 as it is a division where you are never going to improve; we will only improve by playing better teams on a regular basis and learning from our mistakes and devising plans to maximise our strengths and minimise our weaknesses. I don't agree with a second tier championship for this reason. I think there should be a review done at the end of championship (minor, under 20 and senior) to look at progress and to determine what needs to be done to move to the next level. Progress has to be measured and the factors for 'no progress' addressed accordingly.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 997 - 15/05/2019 08:17:55    2184208

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Agree 100 % about our kickouts. Once Kildare moved up on our kickouts we actually had a spare man out field. Kildare pressed 4 forwards up on our full back line and yet We could not find a Wicklow jersey. Feely was made a hero . Yet no one thought of telling our goalkeeper to desist from going the same side.

61123 (Wicklow) - Posts: 87 - 15/05/2019 09:23:55    2184222

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Replying To hurlingnut:  "I dont think it is a matter of just varying the kick out. The modern game is dictated by tje goalkeepers decisions. And if you doubt that look at Cluxton role in setting the greatest team of our time forward.
The management must work with the keeper to devise a coherint plan and tjis is not achieved by shouting from the line.
We dont have a plan other than pack the defense and hope to keep the score down. I had hoped for different but I dont think this management have brought any improvement."
Well it goes to show what plan if any we had. The dog's on the street know Feely is one of the best fielders in the country and our management stood looking at us raining ball after ball down on top of him. Agree with your assessment about management he has brought no improvement whatsoever. The team was actually clueless for the first 50 minutes because they were given no direction or plan on how to go about winning the game. It looked to me like damage limitation against a very average looking Kildare side

dubarra (Wicklow) - Posts: 393 - 15/05/2019 13:21:51    2184289

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I've played in goals and as recently as 8 or 9 years ago a keeper was expected to drive the ball as long and as far as he could and it was the midfielders job to contest it. I know the game has moved on but It took Cluxton until he was 30 before he and Dublin perfected a kick out strategy and he had Connolly Flynn and McCauley to aim at!!
While its unfortunate that so many kicks were won by Feely its unfair to assign all the blame to a young keeper. Wicklow football is not advanced enough when compared to div 1 and 2 teams to perfect complex kickout strategies ... nor do they have the personnel out the pitch. We've haven't got players like Feely, and Kildare are clearly better than us and further down the road in terms of development.
I see it every week at club games, every goalie now is supposed to be a Cluxton or a Rory Beggan. All of a sudden the goalkeeper is meant to ensure his team wins all of the restarts despite potential mis-matches in ability out the pitch. This is a specialist area that needs to be coached into a team over years in my opinion where every player knows his role once the ball is placed for a kick out. Its definitely not something you try in training on a Tuesday and implement on a Saturday. Wicklow are behind the curve in this respect and one of the many reasons we are in division 4

clubfan17 (Wicklow) - Posts: 42 - 17/05/2019 11:36:05    2184860

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Club17, you offer an interesting insight into the role of a goalkeeper and you are right, once people see the top goalkeepers doing a specific thing, the expectation is that it can be replicated easily by all other goalkeepers. Equally, yes Kildare as a team are further down the track in terms of development. Of course, they have played at a higher level - division 1 and division 2 in recent years which aided (forced) them to adopt these types of tactics whereas in the lower divisions, the play is played at a lower level and these type of tactics aren't as applicable. This is the reason I think we need to take the league serious and try to move up, of course, this is easier said than done. I think we should stop using the blank defence as it only offers a temporary solution and will only get limited results; you just have to look at carlow as an example.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 997 - 17/05/2019 12:24:22    2184886

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Wicklow support ...ye its catch 22. We wont get exposure to these tactical advancements at the coal face if we are in division 4 and yet we wont get out/ stay out of division 4 without them. The blanket defense is already old hat and teams like Tyrone and Donegal that pioneered this have all changed again as it wont work anymore. Teams teams like Carlow and Wicklow have copied them six years too late whereas the likes of Monaghan have been forced to adjust as its happened while playing in the higher divisions. In some ways this makes league more important to championship nowadays. For the same reasons I won't be surprised if we see Leitrim back down again. Derry less so because they have greater tradition, a stronger club scene and are exposed to better teams in Ulster.
Anyway I see the Leinster Junior championship is starting for us next Wednesday. We always hear about the better club players that wont commit to the senior panel. I wonder will we see any of those?

clubfan17 (Wicklow) - Posts: 42 - 17/05/2019 14:35:00    2184955

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This is probably the most worrying thing presently; players not committing to play senior. I can't apportion blame to players as it is a lot of commitment at senior intercounty level. But If they are not willing to play senior I would hope that they would play junior but times will tell. Best of luck to you in the junior ranks. Yes blanket defence is a waste of energy at this stage; had a short shelf life that is past. I agree about leitrim, can't see them staying up due to demographics but in wicklow we have a goof population that we need to tap into if we are to have successin the future. Best structure and coaching. Target schools for promotion especially teaching basic skills in primary schools.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 997 - 17/05/2019 17:00:33    2185001

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