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Black Card Is Dead

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The black card is an absolute disaster. But the general inconsistency just annoys the hell out of me. The ref gave Rock a free just to the right of the posts in the second half. absolutely no contact so what did the ref see??? From that Dubs scored the free and then pressed and won next 2 kickouts so it was 3 in quick succession off just an awful decision. Then, there were 2 scrappy incidents where the ball spilled and both teams scrapped for it. First one was inside the Galway 'D'. Dublin player spilled it and both teams scrapped for it. Dub player seemed to foul the ball. Ref decision was a hop ball. 5 minutes later almost identical situation at midfield on the hogan stand wing. This time a Galway player spilled the ball. Once again he did foul the ball and the free was given against him. Correctly so but why a hop ball the previous time? Result: a point to the Dubs. Now I didn't seee all of the first hlf so I am not saying it was all against Galway....only point im making is that the inconsistency just drives me crazy. There are just so many situations where there is no clearly defined ruling for referees to go by. The closest sport to footbal is Aussie RUles and the rulings are far clearer. GAA is an amatuer sport reffed in an extremely amatuer mindset. breakingball22 (Louth) - Posts: 419 - 02/04/2018 21:38:18 2090451 Link
Of course it's dead. Actually a long time ago. It was brought in to put manners on Seán Cavanagh. It's an embarrassment to my own county as we did a lot of grovelling and as a result the GAA brought in the black card. Get rid of it ASAP is my answer border Gael (Monaghan) - Posts: 894 - 02/04/2018 21:59:13 2090458 Link
Replying To breakingball22: "The black card is an absolute disaster. But the general inconsistency just annoys the hell out of me. The ref gave Rock a free just to the right of the posts in the second half. absolutely no contact so what did the ref see??? From that Dubs scored the free and then pressed and won next 2 kickouts so it was 3 in quick succession off just an awful decision. Then, there were 2 scrappy incidents where the ball spilled and both teams scrapped for it. First one was inside the Galway 'D'. Dublin player spilled it and both teams scrapped for it. Dub player seemed to foul the ball. Ref decision was a hop ball. 5 minutes later almost identical situation at midfield on the hogan stand wing. This time a Galway player spilled the ball. Once again he did foul the ball and the free was given against him. Correctly so but why a hop ball the previous time? Result: a point to the Dubs. Now I didn't seee all of the first hlf so I am not saying it was all against Galway....only point im making is that the inconsistency just drives me crazy. There are just so many situations where there is no clearly defined ruling for referees to go by. The closest sport to footbal is Aussie RUles and the rulings are far clearer. GAA is an amatuer sport reffed in an extremely amatuer mindset." Maybe you should watch the full game, it's available on player, then read your above post and reassess your bias, correct me if I'm wrong but are you suggesting that the incorrect award of a free to Rock resulted in a three point swing to the Dubs, were Galway not allowed contest the kick-outs, very disparaging of Galway ball-winners if you think they are unlikely to win their own next two kick-outs, grasping at straws, what's new, sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 674 - 02/04/2018 22:25:47 2090482 Link
Replying To border Gael: "Of course it's dead. Actually a long time ago. It was brought in to put manners on Seán Cavanagh. It's an embarrassment to my own county as we did a lot of grovelling and as a result the GAA brought in the black card. Get rid of it ASAP is my answer" Indeed. The black card was brought in to hammer Tyrone and Ulster sides in general. Elements within the GAA and media just didn't like the physical element that Northern sides brought and did everything they could to prevent it. Eugene McGee in particular had a big input in this; he makes no secret of his contempt for Ulster football, NEVER has a good word to say about it and he was one of the main instigators of the black card. However it is rarely used against Dublin and Kerry in the big games and they are the two most physical, cynical sides about. Kerry and Dublin have decent footballers but they drag, pull, trip and engage in the most cynical of dark arts. The hypocrisy within the GAA and media regarding this is just nauseating. The same voices who cried about Tyrone and 'dirty Nordies' haven't a word to say now because their role has been accomplished, stop Ulster teams at all costs. I have been consistent in saying this for a few years and am no bandwagon jumper. Of course I will be surprised if this is posted as ANY negativity on HS about Kerry but Dublin in particular doesn't appear to be welcomed Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9697 - 02/04/2018 22:48:27 2090487 Link
Replying To border Gael: "Of course it's dead. Actually a long time ago. It was brought in to put manners on Seán Cavanagh. It's an embarrassment to my own county as we did a lot of grovelling and as a result the GAA brought in the black card. Get rid of it ASAP is my answer" It was coming in before cavanagh made a tackle that most other footballers would have made! achara (Monaghan) - Posts: 561 - 02/04/2018 22:51:40 2090489 Link
Replying To sligo joe: "Maybe you should watch the full game, it's available on player, then read your above post and reassess your bias, correct me if I'm wrong but are you suggesting that the incorrect award of a free to Rock resulted in a three point swing to the Dubs, were Galway not allowed contest the kick-outs, very disparaging of Galway ball-winners if you think they are unlikely to win their own next two kick-outs, grasping at straws, what's new," I think you are the one grasping at straws. In the first 10mintes two Dublin players should have been side lined if correct black cards decisions had been made -clear-cut. Now I have never agreed with the card as most refs have difficulty applying the more basic rules. browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 03/04/2018 01:20:45 2090511 Link
Replying To sligo joe: "Maybe you should watch the full game, it's available on player, then read your above post and reassess your bias, correct me if I'm wrong but are you suggesting that the incorrect award of a free to Rock resulted in a three point swing to the Dubs, were Galway not allowed contest the kick-outs, very disparaging of Galway ball-winners if you think they are unlikely to win their own next two kick-outs, grasping at straws, what's new," Ha Joe I didn't think anyone would get touchy from my post. No bias. Love watching Dublin and I have seen games where the referees have made bizarre calls against them. My issue was with inconsistency of refereeing. Don't think any point I made about the actual decisions was incorrect. And you are absolutely correct that Galway can go ahead and win their kickouts. However, I the modern game a free in front of the posts (rather than a score in open play) is like goldducst to a team as well drilled as Dublin. They know its going over the bar...or at the very least wide. They have time to organise and set up their KO defence. Of course Galway can do a bit better to win the ball. But if the free is waived play on Galway can counter and get to Dublin's half a lot easier. Point I was making is that inconsistency of refereeing can drive people crazy because the way momentum can swing in GAA. Dubs took full advantage as they do better than anyone. Not having a go at the Dubs. Best team in years and will most likely win another one this year playing the best brand of ball we have seen. So maybe just relax a wee bit and enjoy your victory! breakingball22 (Louth) - Posts: 419 - 03/04/2018 10:12:01 2090551 Link
Replying To browncows: "I think you are the one grasping at straws. In the first 10mintes two Dublin players should have been side lined if correct black cards decisions had been made -clear-cut. Now I have never agreed with the card as most refs have difficulty applying the more basic rules." Which two players and what were the incidents? Galway scored 3 handy frees in the first 10m all won by Comer, one for pulling Cooper down on top of him to try to get him black carded. For the other two, one from McMahon, he spectaularly hit the deck as soon as he felt a tug on his shoulder. Very very soft frees. Should there be a black card rule for simulation for example? Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 03/04/2018 10:55:30 2090574 Link
Replying To Ulsterman: "Indeed. The black card was brought in to hammer Tyrone and Ulster sides in general. Elements within the GAA and media just didn't like the physical element that Northern sides brought and did everything they could to prevent it. Eugene McGee in particular had a big input in this; he makes no secret of his contempt for Ulster football, NEVER has a good word to say about it and he was one of the main instigators of the black card. However it is rarely used against Dublin and Kerry in the big games and they are the two most physical, cynical sides about. Kerry and Dublin have decent footballers but they drag, pull, trip and engage in the most cynical of dark arts. The hypocrisy within the GAA and media regarding this is just nauseating. The same voices who cried about Tyrone and 'dirty Nordies' haven't a word to say now because their role has been accomplished, stop Ulster teams at all costs. I have been consistent in saying this for a few years and am no bandwagon jumper. Of course I will be surprised if this is posted as ANY negativity on HS about Kerry but Dublin in particular doesn't appear to be welcomed" Indeed. The black card was brought in to hammer Tyrone and Ulster sides in general. The black card was voted in before the Sean Cavanagh tackle. Elements within the GAA and media just didn't like the physical element that Northern sides brought and did everything they could to prevent it. At time of voting for the black card, Waterford, Limerick, Cork, Clare, Tipperary, Laois and Kilkenny all stated they would oppose the motion. On that basis, if just four Ulster teams voted against it, wouldn't the motion have been denied? How could this motion pass without Ulster support? However it is rarely used against Dublin and Kerry in the big games and they are the two most physical, cynical sides about. 2017 stats showed that since the introduction of the black card, Kerry were the highest recipients (25), followed by Down, Sligo and Longford (all 22). "Rarely" indeed. Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 03/04/2018 12:20:09 2090615 Link
The ref might not have had the best game but there's no way he could see Comer grab Coppers jersey, for the 2nd incident imo Comer cleverly pulled the hand break and the Dublin player fell over him, knocking him down in the process. Ref wasn't 100% sure the actions were deliberate so correctly didn't issue black cards. lillyboy (Kildare) - Posts: 429 - 03/04/2018 12:55:22 2090638 Link
Replying To Kurt_Angle: "Indeed. The black card was brought in to hammer Tyrone and Ulster sides in general. The black card was voted in before the Sean Cavanagh tackle. Elements within the GAA and media just didn't like the physical element that Northern sides brought and did everything they could to prevent it. At time of voting for the black card, Waterford, Limerick, Cork, Clare, Tipperary, Laois and Kilkenny all stated they would oppose the motion. On that basis, if just four Ulster teams voted against it, wouldn't the motion have been denied? How could this motion pass without Ulster support? However it is rarely used against Dublin and Kerry in the big games and they are the two most physical, cynical sides about. 2017 stats showed that since the introduction of the black card, Kerry were the highest recipients (25), followed by Down, Sligo and Longford (all 22). "Rarely" indeed." Give over with them oul facts will ye!! DannyMcA (Dublin) - Posts: 260 - 03/04/2018 13:05:25 2090649 Link
Replying To lillyboy: "The ref might not have had the best game but there's no way he could see Comer grab Coppers jersey, for the 2nd incident imo Comer cleverly pulled the hand break and the Dublin player fell over him, knocking him down in the process. Ref wasn't 100% sure the actions were deliberate so correctly didn't issue black cards." Agreed but yet many calling for a Cooper black card for that incident. That type of simulation from Comer though is the lowest form of cheating IMO. Same as arm clamping. There should be a black card for that and I don't care if the player is from Kerry, Cork or Dublin. It's just cheating. Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 03/04/2018 13:07:32 2090651 Link
The rule is not consistently applied like a lot of rules in Gaelic Games.That is the problem. Barnowl94 (Galway) - Posts: 3150 - 03/04/2018 13:15:22 2090654 Link
There is a simple solution. They have it in Ladies Footie. Sin bin and it works a treat. Yellow card is 10 minutes in the bin. The Black Card is inherently wrong as it punishes an individual for a team foul. They tried the sin bin before but threw it out.......mainly because they hadn't the balls to stand up to managers talking rubbish (Mickey Harte heads the poll on this one, but he certainly was not alone). Main criticism is the inconsistent application by referees. If you threw out every rule referees were inconsistent with you would have no left! Sin bin is simple and straight forward. Bring it in. Publish referees assessors scores. Promote and relegate refs for bad performance.i.e. Blatant non implementation of rules (basically they see it but bottle it) Some refs will pack it in but maybe we should give a few quid extra to the good ones that remain. Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1826 - 03/04/2018 13:24:51 2090657 Link
Replying To DannyMcA: " Replying To Kurt_Angle: "Indeed. The black card was brought in to hammer Tyrone and Ulster sides in general. The black card was voted in before the Sean Cavanagh tackle. Elements within the GAA and media just didn't like the physical element that Northern sides brought and did everything they could to prevent it. At time of voting for the black card, Waterford, Limerick, Cork, Clare, Tipperary, Laois and Kilkenny all stated they would oppose the motion. On that basis, if just four Ulster teams voted against it, wouldn't the motion have been denied? How could this motion pass without Ulster support? However it is rarely used against Dublin and Kerry in the big games and they are the two most physical, cynical sides about. 2017 stats showed that since the introduction of the black card, Kerry were the highest recipients (25), followed by Down, Sligo and Longford (all 22). "Rarely" indeed." Give over with them oul facts will ye!!" The Black Card was brought in after Sean Cavanagh's tackle. But, Sean Cavanagh (or any footballer) facing those same circumstances, would commit that foul again today. Black card has changed nothing. Remember, the black card rule that was brought in was a watered down version because it was all that would get through Congress. If you want to get rid of cynical play, punish the team on the scoreboard. FootblockREF (Monaghan) - Posts: 563 - 04/04/2018 10:40:19 2090938 Link
Replying To FootblockREF: " Replying To DannyMcA: "[quote=Kurt_Angle: "Indeed. The black card was brought in to hammer Tyrone and Ulster sides in general. The black card was voted in before the Sean Cavanagh tackle. Elements within the GAA and media just didn't like the physical element that Northern sides brought and did everything they could to prevent it. At time of voting for the black card, Waterford, Limerick, Cork, Clare, Tipperary, Laois and Kilkenny all stated they would oppose the motion. On that basis, if just four Ulster teams voted against it, wouldn't the motion have been denied? How could this motion pass without Ulster support? However it is rarely used against Dublin and Kerry in the big games and they are the two most physical, cynical sides about. 2017 stats showed that since the introduction of the black card, Kerry were the highest recipients (25), followed by Down, Sligo and Longford (all 22). "Rarely" indeed." Give over with them oul facts will ye!!" The Black Card was brought in after Sean Cavanagh's tackle. But, Sean Cavanagh (or any footballer) facing those same circumstances, would commit that foul again today. Black card has changed nothing. Remember, the black card rule that was brought in was a watered down version because it was all that would get through Congress. If you want to get rid of cynical play, punish the team on the scoreboard."]Black card has changed nothing. I disagree. The black card has gone a long way towards eradicating the body checking of runners which was extremely prevalent in the game up to that point. I think that's a huge positive towards a more free-flowing, entertaining spectacle. It may not have eliminated all cynical play such as dragging down a player to prevent a goal scoring opportunity but would even a red card eliminate that in certain circumstances? Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 04/04/2018 12:05:26 2090975 Link
Replying To Kurt_Angle: " Replying To FootblockREF: "[quote=DannyMcA: "[quote=Kurt_Angle: "Indeed. The black card was brought in to hammer Tyrone and Ulster sides in general. The black card was voted in before the Sean Cavanagh tackle. Elements within the GAA and media just didn't like the physical element that Northern sides brought and did everything they could to prevent it. At time of voting for the black card, Waterford, Limerick, Cork, Clare, Tipperary, Laois and Kilkenny all stated they would oppose the motion. On that basis, if just four Ulster teams voted against it, wouldn't the motion have been denied? How could this motion pass without Ulster support? However it is rarely used against Dublin and Kerry in the big games and they are the two most physical, cynical sides about. 2017 stats showed that since the introduction of the black card, Kerry were the highest recipients (25), followed by Down, Sligo and Longford (all 22). "Rarely" indeed." Give over with them oul facts will ye!!" The Black Card was brought in after Sean Cavanagh's tackle. But, Sean Cavanagh (or any footballer) facing those same circumstances, would commit that foul again today. Black card has changed nothing. Remember, the black card rule that was brought in was a watered down version because it was all that would get through Congress. If you want to get rid of cynical play, punish the team on the scoreboard."]Black card has changed nothing. I disagree. The black card has gone a long way towards eradicating the body checking of runners which was extremely prevalent in the game up to that point. I think that's a huge positive towards a more free-flowing, entertaining spectacle. It may not have eliminated all cynical play such as dragging down a player to prevent a goal scoring opportunity but would even a red card eliminate that in certain circumstances?"]your wrong black card was passed in congress before sean cavanaghs tackle that is nearly 5 months before Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 07/04/2018 12:35:52 2091540 Link
Replying To Mayonman: "There is a simple solution. They have it in Ladies Footie. Sin bin and it works a treat. Yellow card is 10 minutes in the bin. The Black Card is inherently wrong as it punishes an individual for a team foul. They tried the sin bin before but threw it out.......mainly because they hadn't the balls to stand up to managers talking rubbish (Mickey Harte heads the poll on this one, but he certainly was not alone). Main criticism is the inconsistent application by referees. If you threw out every rule referees were inconsistent with you would have no left! Sin bin is simple and straight forward. Bring it in. Publish referees assessors scores. Promote and relegate refs for bad performance.i.e. Blatant non implementation of rules (basically they see it but bottle it) Some refs will pack it in but maybe we should give a few quid extra to the good ones that remain." Don't be redicilous, that would require common sense and when has that ever prevailed. No, they'll continued on with the inventIon of another more complicated measure. Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 07/04/2018 15:46:43 2091557 Link
Anyone who thinks that by using assessors that you will improve Ref performance is not living in the real world. In most cases the assessor knows less than the guy with the whistle and using stats will not improve much -it has not improved our games much either. Attaching new rules makes it very difficult for a Ref- black card is a good example. The guys analysing on tv have problems even with replays deciding what is a free, or not a free and most of the time differ. browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 07/04/2018 18:15:44 2091566 Link
It's impossible to ref a game 100% accurately especially now with the level of dark arts on display. Players give out when a decision goes against them but largely it's the players own fault that refs are currently overworked.. some games are just unrefable! Refs need more help from umpires and linesmen and players need to take responsibility for how difficult they are making it to ref a game with a high level of accuracy. I 100% agree that the black card can be poorly dished out at times but there's no doubt that it's stopped the blocking of runs off the ball etc And that's it's greatest success to date and its no doubt aided teams with talented attaching half backs. jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 07/04/2018 21:19:49 2091580 Link