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I would consider myself a stickler for the rule book, I always hate the "let it flow" mantra for being justification for not stopping the game when somebody breaks a hurl across somebody.
I have to say though, I thought the red card given to Tipp's Ronan Maher was just about the worst example of "following the rulebook" I have seen.
The second yellow was scarcely a yellow, yes the Dublin player made it look dangerous but it wasn't, it was a player trying to close him down the opponent and not alone was it not dangerous, the Dublin player just fell down and brought his arm with him.
But it got me thinking, surely a 2nd yellow if one is justified should be a 10-minute sin bin instead of missing the rest of the game?
Maybe after the 10 minute sin bin, the next time a yellow is justified is a red card?
We seem to have lost all sense of giving a player trying to play the ball the benefit of the doubt, while I appreciate this must be a nightmare for a referee, if a Wexford player had been sent off like Ronan Maher was on Sunday, and lost the game as a result, I would have been nothing short of furious.
I think the modern inter county game is cleaner and fairer than the game has ever been, look back to the 80's and 90's and compare the amount of wild pulling and genuinely dirty play there was back then.
Most players on teams these days are fair, of course they are not afraid to hit hard but we seem to have completely blurred the waters between a player attempting to play the ball (or hit the man a shoulder) and a player who wants to do a man.
Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 26/03/2018 14:21:42
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Pinkie, the first yellow for Maher wasn't even a foul, however I have to totally disagree on the second yellow, it was a very dangerous swinging arm high tackle that connected with his opponents jaw and was no where near the ball. I wouldn't have had any issue if he had received a straight red for it.
I'm just the minute finished looking at the whole game and I have to say that it was one of the worst refereeing performances at the top level I've seen for a long time.
I do agree with the essence of your post. I dont believe that two yellow cards should be given the same in game punishment as a straight red offence.
890202 (Wexford) - Posts: 1278 - 26/03/2018 15:14:28
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Unfortunately, a bit like Arsene Wenger, I didn't see the first one! But I heard it was harsh.
I didn't think the second one was a yellow though.....
Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 26/03/2018 15:23:47
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The second one didn't look too bad at all at full speed, in fact I actually thought originally that O Dwyer dived and made a meal of it but when the other angle was shown in the replay it showed that it really was a dangerous head height tackle from behind with a swinging arm. Mahar was obviously angered by a foul on him that the referee didn't give earlier in the same move, so it looked to me like he lost the head and just had a wild swipe at O Dwyer. Even after he did it he knew straight away he was going to be sent off. You can see him putting his hands straight onto his head in despair. It was dangerous
890202 (Wexford) - Posts: 1278 - 26/03/2018 15:33:28
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didnt see the match,but would agree a sin bin for 2 yellow cards would be a fairer punishment,especially with referees who think they are throwing out confetti rather than cards
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 26/03/2018 16:49:48
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Ah here! If you commit two yellow card offenses then tough luck
I didn't see ronan Maher's first yellow either but the second was at least a yellow if not more. He got a clip in the head and retaliated slightly and it was slightly dangerous.
Having said that, who'd be a referee?!!
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 26/03/2018 23:10:14
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But it got me thinking, surely a 2nd yellow if one is justified should be a 10-minute sin bin instead of missing the rest of the game?
Maybe after the 10 minute sin bin, the next time a yellow is justified is a red card?
We seem to have lost all sense of giving a player trying to play the ball the benefit of the doubt, while I appreciate this must be a nightmare for a referee, if a Wexford player had been sent off like Ronan Maher was on Sunday, and lost the game as a result, I would have been nothing short of furious.
I think the modern inter county game is cleaner and fairer than the game has ever been, look back to the 80's and 90's and compare the amount of wild pulling and genuinely dirty play there was back then.
Most players on teams these days are fair, of course they are not afraid to hit hard but we seem to have completely blurred the waters between a player attempting to play the ball (or hit the man a shoulder) and a player who wants to do a man.
Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 3953 - 26/03/2018 14:21:42 No. How many allowances are you to give players? They foul a player and get a warning, next infringement gets a yellow. Why do they need another opportunity to foul?
The game has improved since the 80s and 90s but that doesnt mean these players need any more allowances.
I do agree with the essence of your post. I dont believe that two yellow cards should be given the same in game punishment as a straight red offence.
890202 (Wexford) - Posts: 800 - 26/03/2018 15:14:28 I disagree. Why should players be allowed more leeway when the current discipline/officiating system is more than enough.
didnt see the match,but would agree a sin bin for 2 yellow cards would be a fairer punishment,especially with referees who think they are throwing out confetti rather than cards
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 2245 - 26/03/2018 16:49:48it should be a sin bin for one yellow card. so its free kicks for fouls, upgrade to a warning if necessary then give a yellow card which is a sin bin for 10 minutes and if the player infringes again on a serious enough matter than give them either a second yellow or straight red.
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 26/03/2018 23:18:58
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......so its free kicks for fouls, upgrade to a warning if necessary then give a yellow card which is a sin bin for 10 minutes and if the player infringes again on a serious enough matter than give them either a second yellow or straight red.
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13433 - 26/03/2018 23:18:58 208854
are you talking about football or hurling?i think a sin bin for the first infringement would be unbelievably harsh.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 27/03/2018 08:50:37
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Watched the first club hurling match of the season there at the weekend and I am still of the impression that they may just throw away the rule book for hurling. Two incidents which I thought were automatic reds:
1 - Attacking Player getting further away from chasing player and going towards goal. Chasing player swings the stick obviously with the aim to stop the advancing player and cleans the player from behind across the back, taking him down in the process. A dirty action if ever I seen one on the pitch.
Refs decision - yellow card and gives free to attacking team
2 - Player going forward, gets past two players who try to block him off when one of defending players grabs the face guard on the helmet pulling the guy to the ground in the process.
Refs decision - has a quiet word with the offending player and free to other team
So on that basis I feel there is no point in adding any new rules to hurling when the refs can't even implement the ones that are in place!
Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 27/03/2018 12:18:51
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are you talking about football or hurling?i think a sin bin for the first infringement would be unbelievably harsh.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 2248 - 27/03/2018 08:50:37 both. A yellow isnt necessarily a first infringement and all depends on what the infringement is.
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 27/03/2018 13:32:40
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Replying To Offside_Rule: "Watched the first club hurling match of the season there at the weekend and I am still of the impression that they may just throw away the rule book for hurling. Two incidents which I thought were automatic reds:
1 - Attacking Player getting further away from chasing player and going towards goal. Chasing player swings the stick obviously with the aim to stop the advancing player and cleans the player from behind across the back, taking him down in the process. A dirty action if ever I seen one on the pitch.
Refs decision - yellow card and gives free to attacking team
2 - Player going forward, gets past two players who try to block him off when one of defending players grabs the face guard on the helmet pulling the guy to the ground in the process.
Refs decision - has a quiet word with the offending player and free to other team
So on that basis I feel there is no point in adding any new rules to hurling when the refs can't even implement the ones that are in place!" Alot depends on the positioning of the referee at the time a foul occurs. Ultimately they cant make a decision on something which they haven't seen.
As someone mentioned before 'Who'd be a ref'. its a thankless task where no matter what they decide someone will disagree regardless of what actually occured. I think some people need to realise that they only have an second to make a decision. I'm not a ref nor would i ever consider being one because the abuse would not be worth it.
its like when you see some analysis of frees that are given on the Sunday game and they have to slow it down, or are looking at it from a different angle than the ref, they can see a foul.
juicy (Meath) - Posts: 399 - 27/03/2018 14:15:40
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Replying To juicy: "Alot depends on the positioning of the referee at the time a foul occurs. Ultimately they cant make a decision on something which they haven't seen.
As someone mentioned before 'Who'd be a ref'. its a thankless task where no matter what they decide someone will disagree regardless of what actually occured. I think some people need to realise that they only have an second to make a decision. I'm not a ref nor would i ever consider being one because the abuse would not be worth it.
its like when you see some analysis of frees that are given on the Sunday game and they have to slow it down, or are looking at it from a different angle than the ref, they can see a foul." Aye get what you are saying juicy but believe me these were so obvious that had Stevie Wonder been in charge of the whistle he would have issued two reds! The referee had a perfect view of both, he just chose to administer his own justice (or lack of) instead of applying the rules, much to the annoyance of a lot of players and supporters.
Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 27/03/2018 15:13:19
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Replying To perfect10: "didnt see the match,but would agree a sin bin for 2 yellow cards would be a fairer punishment,especially with referees who think they are throwing out confetti rather than cards" The only referees throwing out cards like confetti are refereeing in the lower leagues and not in Div1x or the Liam McCarthy.
Hurling has now turned into football with the pulling and dragging and overcarrying and referees turning a blind eye in case their accused of "not letting the game flow" as its a mans game.
Utter tripe .
Maher wasn't playing any ball that I could see and deserved his yellow.
Too much wresting going on now
bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 27/03/2018 15:43:24
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Replying To Pinkie: "I would consider myself a stickler for the rule book, I always hate the "let it flow" mantra for being justification for not stopping the game when somebody breaks a hurl across somebody.
I have to say though, I thought the red card given to Tipp's Ronan Maher was just about the worst example of "following the rulebook" I have seen.
The second yellow was scarcely a yellow, yes the Dublin player made it look dangerous but it wasn't, it was a player trying to close him down the opponent and not alone was it not dangerous, the Dublin player just fell down and brought his arm with him.
But it got me thinking, surely a 2nd yellow if one is justified should be a 10-minute sin bin instead of missing the rest of the game?
Maybe after the 10 minute sin bin, the next time a yellow is justified is a red card?
We seem to have lost all sense of giving a player trying to play the ball the benefit of the doubt, while I appreciate this must be a nightmare for a referee, if a Wexford player had been sent off like Ronan Maher was on Sunday, and lost the game as a result, I would have been nothing short of furious.
I think the modern inter county game is cleaner and fairer than the game has ever been, look back to the 80's and 90's and compare the amount of wild pulling and genuinely dirty play there was back then.
Most players on teams these days are fair, of course they are not afraid to hit hard but we seem to have completely blurred the waters between a player attempting to play the ball (or hit the man a shoulder) and a player who wants to do a man." U shouldn't use bad referring for changing the sanction. If it wasn't a foul he shouldn't get a second yellow. I think 2 yellows should always equal a red.
Personally I love the way ladies football operate the sin bin. Works great and it is for any yellow card offence. I also love the way the use a countdown clock........but that's obviously way too complicated for us simple men!
Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1826 - 27/03/2018 16:53:10
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