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International Rules

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Talked up mainly by sports journalists looked a freebie to Oz, it died years ago.

sean og (Armagh) - 29/10/2017 08:25:54    2058901

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The real competitiveness of this went back in '06, when we couldn't handle how tough the Aussies were, so we had a whinge. Now it's a PC series, which just resembles a game of gaelic football, in which the ref has forgotten some of the rules.

PK57 (Louth) - 29/10/2017 10:56:48    2058922

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Replying To PK57:  "The real competitiveness of this went back in '06, when we couldn't handle how tough the Aussies were, so we had a whinge. Now it's a PC series, which just resembles a game of gaelic football, in which the ref has forgotten some of the rules."
Its a joke that we still play all 4 quarters with "our" ball. We used the round ball initially when the series started to make up for the fact that the Ozzie's were far fitter than we were. That gap is essentially closed. Over the course of the last 4 tests we have outscored Australia 13-3 in 6 pointers.That is mainly because we're far more used to a round ball. In history of the series since 1984, we have outscored them 79 - 41, in 6 pointers, almost double. This game is so weighted in our favour, its unreal.

FootblockREF (Monaghan) - 29/10/2017 11:46:54    2058928

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Replying To browncows:  "The competition has little relevance and does nothing to promote our games - complete waste of money."
a wee jaunt for the suits and the elite bois every couple of years and does fork all to promote gaelic games, same as the shinty games only the hurling poor relations get to inverness not Brisbane, Sydney or Melbourne for a few weeks before Christmas. the money would be better spent on promotion at home and investment in more coaching at grass roots/schools. bastardised games to make the suits look good to their corporate pals and the politicos / sports council that they are doing big things for irish sport and tourism

bulmccabe (Tyrone) - 29/10/2017 12:32:29    2058934

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Replying To browncows:  "The competition has little relevance and does nothing to promote our games - complete waste of money."
a wee jaunt for the suits and the elite bois every couple of years and does fork all to promote gaelic games, same as the shinty games only the hurling poor relations get to inverness not Brisbane, Sydney or Melbourne for a few weeks before Christmas. the money would be better spent on promotion at home and investment in more coaching at grass roots/schools. bastardised games to make the suits look good to their corporate pals and the politicos / sports council that they are doing big things for irish sport and tourism

bulmccabe (Tyrone) - 29/10/2017 12:32:32    2058935

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Replying To FootblockREF:  "Its a joke that we still play all 4 quarters with "our" ball. We used the round ball initially when the series started to make up for the fact that the Ozzie's were far fitter than we were. That gap is essentially closed. Over the course of the last 4 tests we have outscored Australia 13-3 in 6 pointers.That is mainly because we're far more used to a round ball. In history of the series since 1984, we have outscored them 79 - 41, in 6 pointers, almost double. This game is so weighted in our favour, its unreal."
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round ball is more predictable and easier to play with. if you can work with the oval ball, you can surely manage the round one! how exactly does the round ball put the Aussies at a major disadvantage?

essmac (Tyrone) - 29/10/2017 13:17:44    2058941

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I've no opinion either way on it, but I find it funny how lads here queue up to say how much they hate the international rules and how pointless it is, yet the series gets tens of thousands through the gates, big interest, big viewing figures on TV, press coverage, sponsors etc.

The Interprovincial series is the opposite: tens in attendance, nobody willing to sponsor it, , minimal press coverage (and even then most of the coverage is about how desperately unpopular it is and wondering when it will be let die). Yet you've lads here who go on about how great the railway cup is and say heaven and earth should be moved to try and make it popular again.

Another one is :

Scenario A: Several top county players aren't on the international rules team. HS posters response "See, nobody cares, scrap the series immediately"

Scenario B: Several top county players are missing from their provincial team. HS posters response "a disgrace, they need to put more money into this competition to attract the players"

Does that not suggest a bit of a disconnect from reality among some here...?

CastleBravo (Meath) - 29/10/2017 15:21:03    2058956

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Aussies see the international series purely as a junket and a viewing platform for potential cheap recruits. It never gets major back-page coverage (it's now cricket season) and most top players are not interested - especially when the games are in Oz.

I agree with a poster above about the oval ball. Were the Irish to take on and beat the Aussies - using the oval ball - it would be a massive ego hit for the AFL. It would have Brexit-style reverberations. It would also catapult the international concept to the stratosphere. It's unlikely to happen, of course, but it would be the only move that would turn this stupid hybrid into a real game.

Brickwall (Dublin) - 31/10/2017 12:24:35    2059266

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Replying To CastleBravo:  "I've no opinion either way on it, but I find it funny how lads here queue up to say how much they hate the international rules and how pointless it is, yet the series gets tens of thousands through the gates, big interest, big viewing figures on TV, press coverage, sponsors etc.

The Interprovincial series is the opposite: tens in attendance, nobody willing to sponsor it, , minimal press coverage (and even then most of the coverage is about how desperately unpopular it is and wondering when it will be let die). Yet you've lads here who go on about how great the railway cup is and say heaven and earth should be moved to try and make it popular again.

Another one is :

Scenario A: Several top county players aren't on the international rules team. HS posters response "See, nobody cares, scrap the series immediately"

Scenario B: Several top county players are missing from their provincial team. HS posters response "a disgrace, they need to put more money into this competition to attract the players"

Does that not suggest a bit of a disconnect from reality among some here...?"
Having been to both competitions in recent years I have to say the international rules was a better contest. Railway cup is a strange one, no massive crowds, no atmosphere and it is then reflected on the pitch. At least in the international rules there is a bit of competition on the field.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - 31/10/2017 12:53:17    2059274

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Replying To CastleBravo:  "I've no opinion either way on it, but I find it funny how lads here queue up to say how much they hate the international rules and how pointless it is, yet the series gets tens of thousands through the gates, big interest, big viewing figures on TV, press coverage, sponsors etc.

The Interprovincial series is the opposite: tens in attendance, nobody willing to sponsor it, , minimal press coverage (and even then most of the coverage is about how desperately unpopular it is and wondering when it will be let die). Yet you've lads here who go on about how great the railway cup is and say heaven and earth should be moved to try and make it popular again.

Another one is :

Scenario A: Several top county players aren't on the international rules team. HS posters response "See, nobody cares, scrap the series immediately"

Scenario B: Several top county players are missing from their provincial team. HS posters response "a disgrace, they need to put more money into this competition to attract the players"

Does that not suggest a bit of a disconnect from reality among some here...?"
Well it does seem you have a strong opinion actually.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - 31/10/2017 12:56:34    2059275

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Replying To CastleBravo:  "I've no opinion either way on it, but I find it funny how lads here queue up to say how much they hate the international rules and how pointless it is, yet the series gets tens of thousands through the gates, big interest, big viewing figures on TV, press coverage, sponsors etc.

The Interprovincial series is the opposite: tens in attendance, nobody willing to sponsor it, , minimal press coverage (and even then most of the coverage is about how desperately unpopular it is and wondering when it will be let die). Yet you've lads here who go on about how great the railway cup is and say heaven and earth should be moved to try and make it popular again.

Another one is :

Scenario A: Several top county players aren't on the international rules team. HS posters response "See, nobody cares, scrap the series immediately"

Scenario B: Several top county players are missing from their provincial team. HS posters response "a disgrace, they need to put more money into this competition to attract the players"

Does that not suggest a bit of a disconnect from reality among some here...?"
I don't hate the compromise rules series but I do have a problem with the GAA throwing money into a bastardised game instead of trying to promote their own. If it's the international dimension that is the attraction, then the Railway cup winners could play British, Asian, Australian and America selects in a world series. This could be made equally as glamorous and appealing as the compromise rules.

Paperboy (Tyrone) - 31/10/2017 13:13:31    2059280

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Aussie Rules also had its Railway Cup - it is/was called State of Origin, but they wisely offered it to posterity. With burgeoning commitments, battered bodies, end-of-season surgery and family holidays, players wanted the season to end . . . when the season ended. Few were interested in representing their State in meaningless games. Clubs were paranoid about injuries.

The same could also be said, to some extent, about English football - the FA Cup and League Cup are travelling in the same direction. The same applies to international friendlies. Most elite players are simply not interested and clubs hate them. Modern-day players have too much to lose by being injured - and having it happen in a meaningless friendly is senseless. The club is now king.

The International Rules thing is dying for the above reasons (among others). It formerly had three defining attractions - the aggro, the junket and the "cap". The first now has serious repercussions into the club season in Oz. Most damning now, however, is that it's become a hard sell in Australia, where it was once hailed as an international "cap" worth having on the CV. They also miss the punch-an-Irishman opportunity - the chance to release pent-up aggression after a season in the increasingly sanitised game that is now AFL.

So it's the toy of media junket junkies. They've most to lose.

Brickwall (Dublin) - 01/11/2017 03:36:15    2059423

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Replying To PK57:  "The real competitiveness of this went back in '06, when we couldn't handle how tough the Aussies were, so we had a whinge. Now it's a PC series, which just resembles a game of gaelic football, in which the ref has forgotten some of the rules."
Well, only if you equate a series of cynical and cowardly assaults, many committed when the Irish guy being assaulted was un-sighted, with "toughness". The Aussies used to send big knuckleheads (including former boxers) who could run all day, but who generally couldn't kick snow off a rope; and, when unable to win by playing ball, they started to start a few brawls to provide cover for a score. I saw them in Croke Park, running through for a score. laughing, while their colleagues were engaging the Irish lads in brawls all over the field. That was a mix of professional athlete pride and straightforward anti-Irish racism, which is still a significant feature of the former colony with a Union Jack in its flag. These days, the Aussies send smaller, much more skilful footballers who can win without resorting to cynicism.

essmac (Tyrone) - 01/11/2017 10:02:43    2059446

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Replying To essmac:  "Well, only if you equate a series of cynical and cowardly assaults, many committed when the Irish guy being assaulted was un-sighted, with "toughness". The Aussies used to send big knuckleheads (including former boxers) who could run all day, but who generally couldn't kick snow off a rope; and, when unable to win by playing ball, they started to start a few brawls to provide cover for a score. I saw them in Croke Park, running through for a score. laughing, while their colleagues were engaging the Irish lads in brawls all over the field. That was a mix of professional athlete pride and straightforward anti-Irish racism, which is still a significant feature of the former colony with a Union Jack in its flag. These days, the Aussies send smaller, much more skilful footballers who can win without resorting to cynicism."
Right on the button. Great post.

Brickwall (Dublin) - 01/11/2017 10:17:31    2059450

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Replying To Brickwall:  "Right on the button. Great post."
I would disagree with some of this. We don't know the Australian team were anti Irish racists, any more than if we are anti Australian racists. I would say both are equally unlikely. I would agree that the Australian teams have gotten stuck in over the years, most notably the infamous 2006 test in croke park and Perth the previous year. But was it a case of not being able to give what we got that suddenly makes it thuggery? It wasn't an issue in the 80s purely in my opinion because we were able physically for them.

Donegalman (None) - 01/11/2017 10:33:29    2059456

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Replying To Donegalman:  "I would disagree with some of this. We don't know the Australian team were anti Irish racists, any more than if we are anti Australian racists. I would say both are equally unlikely. I would agree that the Australian teams have gotten stuck in over the years, most notably the infamous 2006 test in croke park and Perth the previous year. But was it a case of not being able to give what we got that suddenly makes it thuggery? It wasn't an issue in the 80s purely in my opinion because we were able physically for them."
I stand by what I said. I lived in Australia for a considerable period - and casual racism was rife. Even as I write, an Australian Government Minister has ranted off about "not answering the door to an Irish accent". In the Republic debate some years ago - Trade Minister Peter Reith said: "Well, if the Irish can do it . . ." In the early years of the International Rules, talkback radio was rife with callers sledging the Irish and comparing Gaelic games to netball. With the influx of Irish on 12-month visas in recent years, the "no Irish need apply" slur has also reappeared. I could go on and on. Here's more:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/04/when-it-comes-to-smearing-the-irish-australia-is-the-worlds-serial-offender

I like most Australians - they are genuine likeable people and welcome the Irish for the most part - but there's a negativity there and it doesn't take much to bring it to the surface. It's similar to Scotland. By the way, even Aussie fans agree their early Rules international teams were liberally seasoned with thugs - a book by John Todd - one of the early Oz managers - also makes a virtue of it. The conduct of some players was bordering on criminal. Anyone claiming otherwise is naive.

Brickwall (Dublin) - 01/11/2017 13:29:41    2059506

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Yes there was some more dirty strokes than other in them years but the Irish players were hardly angels. In a lot of cases it was the Irish players, who didn't like getting the fair tackle, starting the row and then getting killed.
Now though the edge has been greatly reduced which has taken the game down in standard. The tackle has more or less been abandoned and given its played with our ball its given us a massive advantage.

What rules are there now that have a big impact in favour of Aussies? I cant fully remember the current rules but I cant see any big ones.

It also use to be professional vs amateur but that is also gone now in all but the name.

dstuction (Donegal) - 01/11/2017 13:30:26    2059507

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Replying To Paperboy:  "I don't hate the compromise rules series but I do have a problem with the GAA throwing money into a bastardised game instead of trying to promote their own. If it's the international dimension that is the attraction, then the Railway cup winners could play British, Asian, Australian and America selects in a world series. This could be made equally as glamorous and appealing as the compromise rules."
I'm pretty sure the IRS finances itself between gate receipts and sponsorship.

Floops (Dublin) - 01/11/2017 13:58:01    2059519

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Replying To Brickwall:  "I stand by what I said. I lived in Australia for a considerable period - and casual racism was rife. Even as I write, an Australian Government Minister has ranted off about "not answering the door to an Irish accent". In the Republic debate some years ago - Trade Minister Peter Reith said: "Well, if the Irish can do it . . ." In the early years of the International Rules, talkback radio was rife with callers sledging the Irish and comparing Gaelic games to netball. With the influx of Irish on 12-month visas in recent years, the "no Irish need apply" slur has also reappeared. I could go on and on. Here's more:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/04/when-it-comes-to-smearing-the-irish-australia-is-the-worlds-serial-offender

I like most Australians - they are genuine likeable people and welcome the Irish for the most part - but there's a negativity there and it doesn't take much to bring it to the surface. It's similar to Scotland. By the way, even Aussie fans agree their early Rules international teams were liberally seasoned with thugs - a book by John Todd - one of the early Oz managers - also makes a virtue of it. The conduct of some players was bordering on criminal. Anyone claiming otherwise is naive."
We could cherrypick any country over the past 40 years and end up with any amount of perceived racial slurs and prejudices against any country you care to mention including our own. I see you agree that the 1980s teams the Australians fielded were no different to the ones of the 00's - which vindicates my point i.e. that there was no thuggery then as we were able to put it up to them while in the 00's suddenly it was thuggery because we were not able to match theirs.

I am not for one second saying the prejudices don't exist in countries, or even xenophobia for that mater. People and glass houses would be my take on the whole thing.

If the argument is restricted to whether we are less anti Australian than Australians are anti Irish then you might have the edge on me on that one, but I would say there are only margins at work here. In any event, it is curious if it is the case, as so many Australians are there as a result of Trevelyan's corn.

Donegalman (None) - 01/11/2017 20:59:31    2059635

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The games in 2014 and 15 were good competitive games. It was just a pity at the time they were only 1 test games. The series in 2013 was poor. A weakened Australia made up of aboriginal players were hammered in both tests.

It doesn't need the fighting to make it watchable.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - 02/11/2017 08:53:15    2059684

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