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Where did they get the idea for this I wonder?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lJn5WWqzJg
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8585 - 21/10/2017 19:08:54
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Very hard to watch this today
philip3 (Galway) - Posts: 196 - 21/10/2017 19:42:40
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Replying To realdub: "Where did they get the idea for this I wonder?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lJn5WWqzJg" WTF?
Suas Sios (None) - Posts: 1550 - 21/10/2017 20:47:28
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Replying To Suas Sios: "Scottish ref gave a lot of soft frees for sure. I thought they only got 2 for sideline efforts? The commentary did mention something about how useful Joe Canning would have been to pick up those 2 pointers.
Their goalie made a wonder save late on which might have spurred the Irish on to victory. Wides probably cost us in the end." The wides killed Ireland. 19 in total was it? Nobody to blame but themselves.
There were a few 'soft' frees but they were fouls as the players did have the hand on the back. Fouling is an essential form of tackling in (intercounty) hurling these days as players put one hand on the their own hurley and the other hand is reserved for their opponents, back, hand, arm, wrist, helmet, jersey, hurley or whatever. As this fouling is rarely rewarded with a free, our players almost feel aggrieved or offended on the occasion when they are pulled on it. When it does it happen, it is the ref that is blamed for being 'whistle-happy' or not 'letting the game flow'.
I thought ref was very fair and I liked how he was mic-ed up and communicated with the players and explained why he blew for a free each time.
bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 21/10/2017 21:38:05
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Replying To realdub: "One word for this sport, and the compromise, why?" A very good question.
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 21/10/2017 23:05:18
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Replying To Suas Sios: "WTF?" The kids were watching some flick on the Disney channel tonight and this was in it, don't tell me they're not hurleys or at least copied from them.
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8585 - 21/10/2017 23:29:46
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Hi folks
First time post here. Have been following GAA for a year or two now from Scotland and also follow shinty here.
I thought it was a good game today. I thought some of the fouls were soft and the Irish lads had more trouble adapting to those rules. Our commentators even said same.
Our goals came from a deliberate tactic to charge the goalie and stop him taking steps. An adjustment for our guys as our goalies can not catch the ball and so can't take steps.
As for the why. Well, it's not as good as a game of shinty and not as good as a game of hurling but it keeps the relationship between the two sports going and the wider cultural relationships too so I would hope it continues.
I don't see any harm in it and over here it's certainly one of the marquee events of the shinty calendar, probably only second to the Camanachd cup final. It's the the only other game apart from the Camanachd that gets broadcast on BBC 2 in English as opposed to BBC Alba (not that that bothers me but it's good exposure for the game).
To give a bit of context to shinty in Scotland it's is only played in the Highlands and Argyll. The combined populations of the two probably give you something similar to County Galway so if you imagine a sport only played in Galway.
The two powerhouses of the game are Kingussie - population 1600 and Newtonmore population 1400 but it is also the main game in the bigger towns of Oban and Fort William both approx 10k. Although the international game is always played at the Bught in Inverness , Inverness has a third division team and is very much a soccer town.
Most club games get sub 500 crowds (newtonmore v kingussie might get 1000) and even the Camanachd final gets in the order of 3000-5000 depending on who plays and where it is held.
I guess then the series is more important to us than it is to you guys so of it does begin to feel pointless then consider it a favour to your cousins !!
Albannach (Galway) - Posts: 8 - 22/10/2017 02:39:51
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Replying To Albannach: "Hi folks
First time post here. Have been following GAA for a year or two now from Scotland and also follow shinty here.
I thought it was a good game today. I thought some of the fouls were soft and the Irish lads had more trouble adapting to those rules. Our commentators even said same.
Our goals came from a deliberate tactic to charge the goalie and stop him taking steps. An adjustment for our guys as our goalies can not catch the ball and so can't take steps.
As for the why. Well, it's not as good as a game of shinty and not as good as a game of hurling but it keeps the relationship between the two sports going and the wider cultural relationships too so I would hope it continues.
I don't see any harm in it and over here it's certainly one of the marquee events of the shinty calendar, probably only second to the Camanachd cup final. It's the the only other game apart from the Camanachd that gets broadcast on BBC 2 in English as opposed to BBC Alba (not that that bothers me but it's good exposure for the game).
To give a bit of context to shinty in Scotland it's is only played in the Highlands and Argyll. The combined populations of the two probably give you something similar to County Galway so if you imagine a sport only played in Galway.
The two powerhouses of the game are Kingussie - population 1600 and Newtonmore population 1400 but it is also the main game in the bigger towns of Oban and Fort William both approx 10k. Although the international game is always played at the Bught in Inverness , Inverness has a third division team and is very much a soccer town.
Most club games get sub 500 crowds (newtonmore v kingussie might get 1000) and even the Camanachd final gets in the order of 3000-5000 depending on who plays and where it is held.
I guess then the series is more important to us than it is to you guys so of it does begin to feel pointless then consider it a favour to your cousins !!" That's fair enough, each to their own, I'm sure some people enjoy it here too, just not me, and its nothing against Shinty. In fact its nice to see another nation with its own sport besides us and your players seem to be very good at it too.
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8585 - 22/10/2017 13:11:25
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Replying To Albannach: "Hi folks
First time post here. Have been following GAA for a year or two now from Scotland and also follow shinty here.
I thought it was a good game today. I thought some of the fouls were soft and the Irish lads had more trouble adapting to those rules. Our commentators even said same.
Our goals came from a deliberate tactic to charge the goalie and stop him taking steps. An adjustment for our guys as our goalies can not catch the ball and so can't take steps.
As for the why. Well, it's not as good as a game of shinty and not as good as a game of hurling but it keeps the relationship between the two sports going and the wider cultural relationships too so I would hope it continues.
I don't see any harm in it and over here it's certainly one of the marquee events of the shinty calendar, probably only second to the Camanachd cup final. It's the the only other game apart from the Camanachd that gets broadcast on BBC 2 in English as opposed to BBC Alba (not that that bothers me but it's good exposure for the game).
To give a bit of context to shinty in Scotland it's is only played in the Highlands and Argyll. The combined populations of the two probably give you something similar to County Galway so if you imagine a sport only played in Galway.
The two powerhouses of the game are Kingussie - population 1600 and Newtonmore population 1400 but it is also the main game in the bigger towns of Oban and Fort William both approx 10k. Although the international game is always played at the Bught in Inverness , Inverness has a third division team and is very much a soccer town.
Most club games get sub 500 crowds (newtonmore v kingussie might get 1000) and even the Camanachd final gets in the order of 3000-5000 depending on who plays and where it is held.
I guess then the series is more important to us than it is to you guys so of it does begin to feel pointless then consider it a favour to your cousins !!" Fáilte, a chara!
keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 22/10/2017 20:05:01
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Does this have a second leg?
RoyalBadger (Meath) - Posts: 571 - 23/10/2017 13:24:01
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Is it any wonder then, that there is no tradition of "hurling" in Cavan and most of ulster/Connacht. Our game was "commons" which was disgarded by Michael Cusack when the GAA was formed.
"MICHAEL CUSACK & THE GAA
The model of élite participation in popular culture is a threefold process: first immersion, then withdrawal, and, finally rediscovery, invariably by an educated élite, and often with a nationalist agenda. 'Rediscovery' usually involves an invention of tradition, creating a packaged, homogenised and often false version of an idealised popular culture - as, for example, in the cult of the Highland kilt. The relationship of hurling and the newly established Gaelic Athletic Association in the 1880s shows this third phase with textbook clarity. Thus, when Michael Cusack set about reviving the game, he codified a synthetic version, principally modelled on the southern 'iomán' version that he had known as a child in Clare. Not surprisingly, this new game never caught on in the old 'commons' area, with the Glens of Antrim being the only major exception. Cusack and his GAA backers also wished to use the game as a nationalising idiom, a symbolic language of identity filling the void created by the speed of anglicisation. It had therefore to be sharply fenced off in organisational terms from competing 'anglicised' sports like cricket, soccer and rugby. Thus, from the beginning, the revived game had a nationalist veneer, its rules of association bristling like a porcupine with protective nationalist quills on which its perceived opponents would have to impale themselves. Its principal backers were those already active in the nationalist political culture of the time, classically the I.R.B. Its spread depended on the active support of an increasingly nationalist Catholic middle class - and as in every country concerned with the invention of tradition, its social constituency included especially journalists, publicans, schoolteachers, clerks, artisans and clerics. Thus, hurling's early success was in south Leinster and east Munster, the very region which pioneered popular Irish nationalist politics - from the O'Connell campaign, to the devotional revolution in Irish Catholicism, from Fr. Matthews' temperance campaign, to the Fenians, to the take-over of local government. The GAA was a classic example of the radical conservatism of this region - conservative in its ethos and ideology, radical in its techniques of organisation and mobilisation. The spread of hurling can be very closely matched to the spread of other radical conservative movements of this period - the diffusion of the indigenous Catholic teaching orders and the spread of co-operative dairying.
It would, however, be a mistake to see the spread of hurling under the aegis of the GAA solely in nationalist terms. The codification and success of gaelic games should be compared to the almost contemporaneous success in Britain of codified versions of soccer and rugby. All these were linked to rising spending power, a shortened working week (and the associated development of the 'weekend'), improved and cheaper mass transport facilities which made spectator sports viable, expanded leisure time, the desire for organised sport among the working classes, and the commercialisation of leisure itself. The really distinctive feature of the GAA's success was that it occurred in what was still a predominantly agrarian society. That success rested on the shrewd application of the principle of territoriality."
s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 23/10/2017 14:30:46
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"Radical conservatism"
streaker (Galway) - Posts: 497 - 23/10/2017 15:53:26
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Replying To streaker: ""Radical conservatism"" conservative in its ethos and ideology, radical in its techniques of organisation and mobilisation.
s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 24/10/2017 10:21:07
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I enjoy it altough Saturdays game was one of the poorer games in recent years ...Ireland were terrible and the scots just marginally better!
BigJohn.6_8 (Galway) - Posts: 704 - 24/10/2017 10:32:42
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I think in Donegal it was called Camman not commons and was played extensively before the GAA founded.
gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1056 - 24/10/2017 12:24:46
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A question which occurred to me during the match was what type of sliotar did they use?
Is there a difference in size or mass?
Albannach, what do they make the Camanachd ball from?
Suas Sios (None) - Posts: 1550 - 24/10/2017 14:04:03
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It is/was camag in the Isle of Man and Camanachd in Scotland named after the stick - caman bring crooked stick.
There is also iomain but I have never heard it used other than recently for the women's game.
Similar names and a similar game in Ulster would make sense given there was at least as much interaction between Ulster and Scotland as Ulster and other areas of Ireland. The Uí Néill/ Mac Neil and Mac Donnell/Mac Dhòmhnaill/ MacDonald clans being prominent across the islands and Ulster.
Have heard it said even in modern times Donegal and Islay Gaels would be understood by each other where a Cork and Lewisman could not.
Albannach (Galway) - Posts: 8 - 24/10/2017 14:21:44
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Replying To s goldrick: "Is it any wonder then, that there is no tradition of "hurling" in Cavan and most of ulster/Connacht. Our game was "commons" which was disgarded by Michael Cusack when the GAA was formed.
"MICHAEL CUSACK & THE GAA
The model of élite participation in popular culture is a threefold process: first immersion, then withdrawal, and, finally rediscovery, invariably by an educated élite, and often with a nationalist agenda. 'Rediscovery' usually involves an invention of tradition, creating a packaged, homogenised and often false version of an idealised popular culture - as, for example, in the cult of the Highland kilt. The relationship of hurling and the newly established Gaelic Athletic Association in the 1880s shows this third phase with textbook clarity. Thus, when Michael Cusack set about reviving the game, he codified a synthetic version, principally modelled on the southern 'iomán' version that he had known as a child in Clare. Not surprisingly, this new game never caught on in the old 'commons' area, with the Glens of Antrim being the only major exception. Cusack and his GAA backers also wished to use the game as a nationalising idiom, a symbolic language of identity filling the void created by the speed of anglicisation. It had therefore to be sharply fenced off in organisational terms from competing 'anglicised' sports like cricket, soccer and rugby. Thus, from the beginning, the revived game had a nationalist veneer, its rules of association bristling like a porcupine with protective nationalist quills on which its perceived opponents would have to impale themselves. Its principal backers were those already active in the nationalist political culture of the time, classically the I.R.B. Its spread depended on the active support of an increasingly nationalist Catholic middle class - and as in every country concerned with the invention of tradition, its social constituency included especially journalists, publicans, schoolteachers, clerks, artisans and clerics. Thus, hurling's early success was in south Leinster and east Munster, the very region which pioneered popular Irish nationalist politics - from the O'Connell campaign, to the devotional revolution in Irish Catholicism, from Fr. Matthews' temperance campaign, to the Fenians, to the take-over of local government. The GAA was a classic example of the radical conservatism of this region - conservative in its ethos and ideology, radical in its techniques of organisation and mobilisation. The spread of hurling can be very closely matched to the spread of other radical conservative movements of this period - the diffusion of the indigenous Catholic teaching orders and the spread of co-operative dairying.
It would, however, be a mistake to see the spread of hurling under the aegis of the GAA solely in nationalist terms. The codification and success of gaelic games should be compared to the almost contemporaneous success in Britain of codified versions of soccer and rugby. All these were linked to rising spending power, a shortened working week (and the associated development of the 'weekend'), improved and cheaper mass transport facilities which made spectator sports viable, expanded leisure time, the desire for organised sport among the working classes, and the commercialisation of leisure itself. The really distinctive feature of the GAA's success was that it occurred in what was still a predominantly agrarian society. That success rested on the shrewd application of the principle of territoriality."" Hurling is a far better game to watch & play than shinty. Cusack chose the right option.
keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 24/10/2017 15:47:26
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I understand its a size 4 sliotar they use, I am open to correction though..
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1898 - 24/10/2017 17:15:08
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Replying To Suas Sios: "A question which occurred to me during the match was what type of sliotar did they use?
Is there a difference in size or mass?
Albannach, what do they make the Camanachd ball from?" Cork wrapped in leather.
I don't know about the exact dimensions but a shinty ball is a good bit smaller than the sliotar.
Now I come to think of it I have no idea what they use in the international series.
Albannach (Galway) - Posts: 8 - 24/10/2017 18:39:04
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