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Female Coaches within the Intercounty Scene.

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Replying To if_in_doubt:  "Surly if they won't let females mange miners, how can females have any hope of manging adults?

Dee (Laois) - Posts:303 - 19/10/2017 17:17:30

Well Thatcher set a bad precedent there in fairness..."
Give that man a medal, brilliant :D

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 21/10/2017 11:05:35    2056765

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Hey man, you really need to redress your attitudes. If Angela Merkel is able to be the most powerful person in Europe for 12 years, I think there's room for women to be ruthless enough to be football managers.

No redress required. I believe in life the person best suited to do something should do it - be that a man, a woman or a non binary. In this case of managing a male football team you need traits that are more in the male psyche than the female. Of course you will always get exceptions who will be able to - though as good a leader as Merkel is that doesn't mean she could step in and do a job managing a GAA football team. Again, as I said previously, though obviously missed by a few, things in life suit different traits. Men and women have different traits if you like. So why does everybody nowadays have to be assumed to be capable of doing everything, just for equality!!!

The world has gone mad.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 21/10/2017 12:33:31    2056778

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Misogyny is in all sports in all nations, but it is still not acceptable. Would like to see more female coaches and refs. We never see a Connacht ref. of any gender in Croke Park for big games. Same old men from the greater Meath area year in year out.

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1667 - 21/10/2017 13:22:51    2056785

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Replying To Offside_Rule:  "Hey man, you really need to redress your attitudes. If Angela Merkel is able to be the most powerful person in Europe for 12 years, I think there's room for women to be ruthless enough to be football managers.

No redress required. I believe in life the person best suited to do something should do it - be that a man, a woman or a non binary. In this case of managing a male football team you need traits that are more in the male psyche than the female. Of course you will always get exceptions who will be able to - though as good a leader as Merkel is that doesn't mean she could step in and do a job managing a GAA football team. Again, as I said previously, though obviously missed by a few, things in life suit different traits. Men and women have different traits if you like. So why does everybody nowadays have to be assumed to be capable of doing everything, just for equality!!!

The world has gone mad."
The traits you discuss are lazy stereotypes.

They're far from evidence based facts. It's also interesting how those characteristics tend to be associated with lower paid and less powerful jobs on average than the leadership style qualities that you purport men to have more of.

Truth is that argument is just a way of fueling the patriarchy.

It really doesn't tally with the real world.

The skills required of a football manager/coach are very similar to those of politicians and CEOs. There are plenty of examples of women exiling in those fields, it's far from one exception to the rule.

At the minute men still are more represented in those areas but there are systemic reasons why that's the case. Thankfully that's being reduced.

I really don't see why a club wouldn't be open to interviewing women for such positions, it just increases the talent pool that you're searching from.

Hopefully that door gets opened to some women and we get to see in practice how well they do. Until that happens it really is outrageous to say that women don't have what it takes.

This whole anti PC crap that you spout is just so backward.

I don't see how it's just PC gone mad to believe that some women might be capable of managing a men's football team.

It certainly is not as demanding a job as running Germany or UK or General Motors or IBM.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 27/10/2017 19:10:02    2058672

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Didn't say no woman would be fit to. Just pointing out that male traits lean more towards the world of football/sports team management.

You can't change the laws of physics.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/4322947/men-women-sports-evolution

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 27/10/2017 19:49:53    2058687

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Replying To Offside_Rule:  "Didn't say no woman would be fit to. Just pointing out that male traits lean more towards the world of football/sports team management.

You can't change the laws of physics.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/4322947/men-women-sports-evolution"
Ok I was confused by where you were coming from.

I don't think anyone is calling for full equality.

Right now it'd be madness for an intercounty team to put in place a woman as manager since there would be no one remotely qualified enough. Same mightn't be the case for clubs though. There are plenty of inexperienced men who find themselves in these roles. I don't see why women couldn't be involved as manager/coach. It'd be interesting to give strong ladies footballers or managers an opportunity with a men's club team to see how they fare. We can't know yet but I'd be surprised if there wouldn't be plenty of outstanding female coaches.

Yes there are fewer women involved in sport than men but those that are surely can be as passionate and competitive about sport as any man.

Sport is a very male dominated arena as your article clearly states. It would be a good thing though if it were less male dominated in my opinion.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 27/10/2017 20:15:45    2058695

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Replying To arock:  "I believe female players/ex-players like Mags D'Arcy and Anna Geary (Sunday game) would be more than capable of coaching men the art of hurling is breed deep into them and their coaching credientails are far superior to a lot of so called high profile coaches. They would be far more eminently qualified than a host of Dub hurley's with little more going for them than high hopes and poor credentials. The fact is very few of you would even know the capabilities of the women in these sports. The other sad reality is that men utterly dominate the sidelines of ladies football/camogie at all levels of the club/inter-county. But I think a cohort of men have an inherent desire to bully/dominate to bluster and blow hard and it is driving players from the game and driving the games into the ground. I believe it is only a matter of time before the more qualified and professional females move into the men's sport we. In the meantime the dark ages still prevail in our sports were females are mere prey not leaders."
You can't be serious about Anna Geary or Mags D'arcy having the credentials to manage a male team. Pundits they may be but that is far from having the skillset to manage any team. You'd want someone with the caliber of Brid Stack, Juliet Murphy or Rena Buckley with an academic background in the area of physical education. You need a manager who will listen and not one who wants to be heard.

The_Bull (Cork) - Posts: 248 - 27/10/2017 20:24:46    2058700

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It's called MANager not LADYager

Monaghansclown (Monaghan) - Posts: 174 - 27/10/2017 20:43:15    2058703

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Replying To Offside_Rule:  "Hey man, you really need to redress your attitudes. If Angela Merkel is able to be the most powerful person in Europe for 12 years, I think there's room for women to be ruthless enough to be football managers.

No redress required. I believe in life the person best suited to do something should do it - be that a man, a woman or a non binary. In this case of managing a male football team you need traits that are more in the male psyche than the female. Of course you will always get exceptions who will be able to - though as good a leader as Merkel is that doesn't mean she could step in and do a job managing a GAA football team. Again, as I said previously, though obviously missed by a few, things in life suit different traits. Men and women have different traits if you like. So why does everybody nowadays have to be assumed to be capable of doing everything, just for equality!!!

The world has gone mad."
Of course the world(especially Ireland) is gone mad to be seriously talking about this .How could a woman motivate a male senior team?. Some of you guys give the impression that serious football/hurling is just a game -like having a private game of golf.
Football at any high level isn't just a sport.It's war!

worple (Roscommon) - Posts: 339 - 27/10/2017 21:11:10    2058706

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Replying To suckvalleypaddy:  "Misogyny is in all sports in all nations, but it is still not acceptable. Would like to see more female coaches and refs. We never see a Connacht ref. of any gender in Croke Park for big games. Same old men from the greater Meath area year in year out."
well said paddy

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1196 - 27/10/2017 21:13:32    2058707

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Replying To worple:  "
Replying To Offside_Rule:  "Hey man, you really need to redress your attitudes. If Angela Merkel is able to be the most powerful person in Europe for 12 years, I think there's room for women to be ruthless enough to be football managers.

No redress required. I believe in life the person best suited to do something should do it - be that a man, a woman or a non binary. In this case of managing a male football team you need traits that are more in the male psyche than the female. Of course you will always get exceptions who will be able to - though as good a leader as Merkel is that doesn't mean she could step in and do a job managing a GAA football team. Again, as I said previously, though obviously missed by a few, things in life suit different traits. Men and women have different traits if you like. So why does everybody nowadays have to be assumed to be capable of doing everything, just for equality!!!

The world has gone mad."
Of course the world(especially Ireland) is gone mad to be seriously talking about this .How could a woman motivate a male senior team?. Some of you guys give the impression that serious football/hurling is just a game -like having a private game of golf.
Football at any high level isn't just a sport.It's war!"
"How could a woman motivate a male senior football team".

Wow that's a hell of a statement.

I don't see why a woman couldn't. If what you say is true, then I think that's more of a failing of men that they couldn't respect a woman's authority.

I'd like to think that young men right now are more used to seeing women in positions of authority and power. I think that should only improve over time.

I am 100% sure there are women out there who are more capable than many of the men who are in charge of football teams.

There are plenty of men without the requisite intellectual, organizational and communication skills for managing teams who still get opportunities.

Any club willing to give a woman a chance I feel would be giving themselves a competitive advantage, particularly if they're not a particularly attractive prospect themselves. What sort of male coaches do these clubs end up landing themselves with! They're probably left selecting from the leftovers.

I'd rather select from a pool of the best women who are getting no opportunities because of their gender than the men who can't get a role because they're proven to not be up to it.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 28/10/2017 06:20:20    2058740

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Replying To The_Bull:  "You can't be serious about Anna Geary or Mags D'arcy having the credentials to manage a male team. Pundits they may be but that is far from having the skillset to manage any team. You'd want someone with the caliber of Brid Stack, Juliet Murphy or Rena Buckley with an academic background in the area of physical education. You need a manager who will listen and not one who wants to be heard."
You know nothing of either of these if you regard them as pundits, D'Arcy has serious sporting creditials both on/off pitch and in third level education, they have coached and do coach many teams. You clearly know nothing of this woman if you regard her as a mere pundit.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4895 - 28/10/2017 15:24:08    2058792

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Replying To arock:  "You know nothing of either of these if you regard them as pundits, D'Arcy has serious sporting creditials both on/off pitch and in third level education, they have coached and do coach many teams. You clearly know nothing of this woman if you regard her as a mere pundit."
Please enlighten me so the teams they have coached successfully and the titles delivered. Ireland's Fittest Family doesn't count

The_Bull (Cork) - Posts: 248 - 28/10/2017 20:04:14    2058831

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Replying To The_Bull:  "Please enlighten me so the teams they have coached successfully and the titles delivered. Ireland's Fittest Family doesn't count"
You are applying one rule for men and not for women, Mag's D'Arcy runs coaching workshops, has been involved coaching college and coaching with Inter-county teams, mostly in camogie but sure that doesn't count right? Oh god you really do not see your own prejudice it is so sad. She has masters in her chosen field so I am staggered you would ask that, you wouldn't ask this of say an Ex-Intercounty hurler (like Davey Fitz) you wouldn't bat an eyelid. You are sexist in your thinking I, and others, are suggesting these people and people like her should be given a fair chance, but unless they get experience offered to them how the hell are they going to meet your one-sided demands? Yeah some of my best friends are blacks/jews etc etc. Pathetic

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4895 - 29/10/2017 09:03:06    2058908

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Replying To arock:  "You are applying one rule for men and not for women, Mag's D'Arcy runs coaching workshops, has been involved coaching college and coaching with Inter-county teams, mostly in camogie but sure that doesn't count right? Oh god you really do not see your own prejudice it is so sad. She has masters in her chosen field so I am staggered you would ask that, you wouldn't ask this of say an Ex-Intercounty hurler (like Davey Fitz) you wouldn't bat an eyelid. You are sexist in your thinking I, and others, are suggesting these people and people like her should be given a fair chance, but unless they get experience offered to them how the hell are they going to meet your one-sided demands? Yeah some of my best friends are blacks/jews etc etc. Pathetic"
Bull hasn't claimed to have any lady friends in fairness and there is no evidence that he has.

Westfester (Limerick) - Posts: 943 - 29/10/2017 09:34:31    2058913

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Replying To arock:  "You are applying one rule for men and not for women, Mag's D'Arcy runs coaching workshops, has been involved coaching college and coaching with Inter-county teams, mostly in camogie but sure that doesn't count right? Oh god you really do not see your own prejudice it is so sad. She has masters in her chosen field so I am staggered you would ask that, you wouldn't ask this of say an Ex-Intercounty hurler (like Davey Fitz) you wouldn't bat an eyelid. You are sexist in your thinking I, and others, are suggesting these people and people like her should be given a fair chance, but unless they get experience offered to them how the hell are they going to meet your one-sided demands? Yeah some of my best friends are blacks/jews etc etc. Pathetic"
Actually, the 'I'm not racist because I have black/ jew friends' is a perfectly legitimate argument. I'm do have some black friends and am not in anyway racist (my definition, not yours). Same for the sex debate. My current boss is female; prior to that, male; prior to that, female; and prior to that, female. Their sex does not come into it in any way when it comes to leadership.

But I do not see females as getting an intercounty job with a male team for all the above reasons. Don't need to explain myself and don't need to kow-tow to your self-elected level of righteousness.

A female family member has 4 AI medals and I would see her adding significantly to the culture in our club and I would love to bring her on board because she is a proven, driven winner. That said, in motherhood now, she has less interest and little time in the high level sport she left a mere 2 years ago. So, there are many facets to this argument.

What I would forever rail against is a forced inclusion of members of any minority. Open those doors to all, but don't start pushing certain individuals to the front of the queue because the fit the vision of the SJWs. Remember, those who were persecuted in the past do not deserve some specialist status or privilege over others in the future..

Just saying, "you really don't get it, do you?" doesn't give you any more of the moral high ground than me or make you a better person. In fact, it shows a complete lack of effort in attempting to empathise with the views of others (oppression, anyone?).

wicklu (Wicklow) - Posts: 331 - 29/10/2017 10:57:54    2058923

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Replying To wicklu:  "Actually, the 'I'm not racist because I have black/ jew friends' is a perfectly legitimate argument. I'm do have some black friends and am not in anyway racist (my definition, not yours). Same for the sex debate. My current boss is female; prior to that, male; prior to that, female; and prior to that, female. Their sex does not come into it in any way when it comes to leadership.

But I do not see females as getting an intercounty job with a male team for all the above reasons. Don't need to explain myself and don't need to kow-tow to your self-elected level of righteousness.

A female family member has 4 AI medals and I would see her adding significantly to the culture in our club and I would love to bring her on board because she is a proven, driven winner. That said, in motherhood now, she has less interest and little time in the high level sport she left a mere 2 years ago. So, there are many facets to this argument.

What I would forever rail against is a forced inclusion of members of any minority. Open those doors to all, but don't start pushing certain individuals to the front of the queue because the fit the vision of the SJWs. Remember, those who were persecuted in the past do not deserve some specialist status or privilege over others in the future..

Just saying, "you really don't get it, do you?" doesn't give you any more of the moral high ground than me or make you a better person. In fact, it shows a complete lack of effort in attempting to empathise with the views of others (oppression, anyone?)."
I absolutely and fundementally disagree with your lob-sided argument. You asked for the credentials of the two mentioned females. What credentials were asked of David Herrity to take over Dublin Camogie? He has proved to be an enlightened selection but by your selection criteria he wouldn't be considered. Or is the problem this, you don't or can't see how a female no matter how qualified would be able to coach a male team, that is being sexist. I am sorry if you cannot see that, most don't. So tell me what is the difference between David Herrity and Mags D'Arcy's credentials? one is a woman the other a man. If Anne Downey replaced the great Brian Cody what would be the problem? I tell you what would be the problem attitudes like yours. Coaches like Stellah Sinnott from Wexford, Anne Downey would easily manage a male team at any level. Anne Geary BTW is still an active player as is Mags D'Arcy.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4895 - 29/10/2017 11:37:32    2058927

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Replying To arock:  "I absolutely and fundementally disagree with your lob-sided argument. You asked for the credentials of the two mentioned females. What credentials were asked of David Herrity to take over Dublin Camogie? He has proved to be an enlightened selection but by your selection criteria he wouldn't be considered. Or is the problem this, you don't or can't see how a female no matter how qualified would be able to coach a male team, that is being sexist. I am sorry if you cannot see that, most don't. So tell me what is the difference between David Herrity and Mags D'Arcy's credentials? one is a woman the other a man. If Anne Downey replaced the great Brian Cody what would be the problem? I tell you what would be the problem attitudes like yours. Coaches like Stellah Sinnott from Wexford, Anne Downey would easily manage a male team at any level. Anne Geary BTW is still an active player as is Mags D'Arcy."
I think you've replied to someone else's post.

"You asked for the credentials of the two mentioned females."
No I didn't.

"...but by your selection criteria..."
I didn't outline any criteria.

Have a look at my post again there

wicklu (Wicklow) - Posts: 331 - 29/10/2017 13:06:21    2058937

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There's some "banter" in this Forum. Keys and Andy Grey would fit right in!!!

To the lady that was rejected to manage a Minor team I think that is a bit unfair, Obviously peoples reputations come before them when it comes to coaching etc. But the concept of football is the same...get the ball, try put it in the net or over the bar. There should be no reason why there is no room for female coaches in the Male game.

Obviously the older you get the more competitive it becomes. That's no offence to women, but people have spent years building a coaching portfolio and the chances of getting an internal coaches within clubs is difficult job enough never mind a high profile female coach.

These female coaches in the game are good enough to go throughout the schools, referee the game and compete in their own respective sport and could be more tactically aware than male coaches at the end of the day they're the same. But the only female you see on the side line is the blade that's giving the players a wee rub or running to their aid when their hurt.

Fair play to any woman who has the balls (Metaphorically Speaking obviously) to stand up and want to get involved in the male dominated sport.

Find_the_space (Tyrone) - Posts: 313 - 30/10/2017 15:36:41    2059121

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Replying To wicklu:  "Actually, the 'I'm not racist because I have black/ jew friends' is a perfectly legitimate argument. I'm do have some black friends and am not in anyway racist (my definition, not yours). Same for the sex debate. My current boss is female; prior to that, male; prior to that, female; and prior to that, female. Their sex does not come into it in any way when it comes to leadership.

But I do not see females as getting an intercounty job with a male team for all the above reasons. Don't need to explain myself and don't need to kow-tow to your self-elected level of righteousness.

A female family member has 4 AI medals and I would see her adding significantly to the culture in our club and I would love to bring her on board because she is a proven, driven winner. That said, in motherhood now, she has less interest and little time in the high level sport she left a mere 2 years ago. So, there are many facets to this argument.

What I would forever rail against is a forced inclusion of members of any minority. Open those doors to all, but don't start pushing certain individuals to the front of the queue because the fit the vision of the SJWs. Remember, those who were persecuted in the past do not deserve some specialist status or privilege over others in the future..

Just saying, "you really don't get it, do you?" doesn't give you any more of the moral high ground than me or make you a better person. In fact, it shows a complete lack of effort in attempting to empathise with the views of others (oppression, anyone?)."
I understand where you're coming from with regards positive discrimination.

If we lived in an ideal world I'd maybe agree with you. It wouldn't be fair to elevate someone over someone else because they are a minority. Even in that instance there's an argument for positive discrimination, in that people of a privileged position haven't gotten there on the back of centuries of competitive advantages afforded in their ancestry. I don't really have a strong stance on either side of that argument. You shouldn't disadvantage someone based on what's gone before them, on the other hand maybe only a slight tilting of the competitive balance in favor of the minority will help regain full equality in time. Maybe it's even needed just to balance any continuing aggregate marginal gains.

Anyway I don't really think we particularly need to worry about those arguments. We just don't we live in an ideal world, far from it and prejudices still exist. Given that situation I really feel there has to be some sort of positive discrimination in the world to even the playing field.

It isn't social justice warriory either. It's really just fairness, plus in the long run everyone benefits as competition is increased with more people given a proper shot at success, standards rise more quickly.

If the best women started to get the coaching jobs of the weakest men I really think the standard would go up very quickly. Which would be great for everyone really.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 30/10/2017 17:54:16    2059138

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