National Forum

The Super 8

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Replying To Kurt_Angle:  "Is it definite that Dublin will play two games in Croke Park? I haven't heard any confirmation of this (or confirmation that they won't either).

To my mind, it seems largely doable to have a level playing field in terms of home, away and neutral games for all teams concerned. For example, in last years championship, Dublin, Tyrone, Armagh and Monaghan were on one side of the draw. Would it not have been possible for Dublin to play away in Omagh, neutral in Clones / Cavan (v Armagh - between both counties for relative convenience to travelling fans) and home in Croke Park? I doubt anyone would have had much of a problem with that setup (bar, maybe, the bean counters)."
Its not definite but it is the current set up and the GAA aren't going to change it.
So, actually it is definite!!!!
I think the easiest fix is that Dublin select a suitable ground in Leinster to play their "home" game.
Parnell Park is way too small.

FootblockREF (Monaghan) - Posts: 201 - 13/04/2018 15:28:16    2092854

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Now that would be fair and hopefully that's the way it'l work out."
Except Armagh (or whoever it might be) would say how come all other teams in the Super 8 get a game in Croke Park but they dont, it's totally unfair and a real kick in the teeth for the smaller county etc etc. Remember Roscommon and Mayo both wanted to play their replay in Croke Park last year despite it being a 2nd weekend of both counties having to drive across the country.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2186 - 13/04/2018 15:31:26    2092856

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Replying To Soma:  "Except Armagh (or whoever it might be) would say how come all other teams in the Super 8 get a game in Croke Park but they dont, it's totally unfair and a real kick in the teeth for the smaller county etc etc. Remember Roscommon and Mayo both wanted to play their replay in Croke Park last year despite it being a 2nd weekend of both counties having to drive across the country."
Personally if I were from Armagh I'd like to take the dubs out of their comfort zone of crokepark and play them on a pitch that they're not that familiar with, it's little things that can swing a game.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 7372 - 13/04/2018 19:33:46    2092899

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So the first fixtures look like two double headers on the Sat and Sun in July in Croke Park against all the provincial winners.

That will be some weekend of football.

Dublinvs Tyrone/Donega/Monaghan/Cavan

Kerry Vs Mayo/Galway/Roscommon.

You would expect the results of those would go a long way to winning the group.

That said the above who aren't in either group, would fancy there chances of making the other through the qualifiers.

I wonder does the GAA have provision that fixtures can't be repeated? For example if Mayo beat Galway and go on to win Connacht and say Galway come through the qualifiers can they go into group one again with Mayo? Or not because they played them already.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 1588 - 13/04/2018 20:20:18    2092900

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Replying To FootblockREF:  "Its not definite but it is the current set up and the GAA aren't going to change it.
So, actually it is definite!!!!
I think the easiest fix is that Dublin select a suitable ground in Leinster to play their "home" game.
Parnell Park is way too small."
Nah Parnell Park for our home game, if we are talking about fairness it should be Dublin's decision, wont make a blind bit of difference to Dublin financially or practically. It means tickets are at a premium but I would agree with most, so be it.

As above cop on GAA, let us play at our home ground. Equally every year we are the victims of being outvoted by the Leinster Council who vote every year to keep us in Crocker to swell their own coffers.

It's beyond time to free Dublin, or at least let us have a home game.

Other counties finances shouldn't really be our issue or burden.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 1588 - 13/04/2018 20:31:03    2092904

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Exactly Parnell Park game is the fair solution to be fair no one has said it won't be.

It shouldn't be up to Dublin to rescue the GAA financially.

It is a bit ironic though, everyone wants more money, but then everyone would enjoy a petty win about Dublin not playing in Croke Park."
A strange phrase you have used -, 'enjoy a petty win about Dublin' - are you suggesting there is something 'petty' about wanting all eight counties who qualify to face the same challenge on the field of play?

At present the system will mean that Dublin have effectively two home games, where the crowd will be 80%+ in their favour (with all the influence that gives in terms of team morale and influencing refereeing decisions).
As any fair minded individual can see this is a distinct advantage over every other county.

There are plenty of grounds in Munster which have the capacity to accommodate Dublin's season ticket allocation and have room left over for a few thousand more of their supporters.

It would also mean the Dublin County Board having to do what every other County Board has to do come the Championship - put their hands in their pockets and pay to transport and accommodate their senior county footballers on match day. Heaven knows they have all the money in the world to pay for it!

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 3756 - 14/04/2018 12:29:17    2092978

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these games at Croke Park will get brutal crowds as they won't be knockout games.

Imagine if it's Kerry v Galway - very few will go all the way to Dublin for a game that isn't KO(Very few from either went last year and that was a KO game) It should be in Limerick same with the other neutral games.

37thHeaven (Kerry) - Posts: 100 - 14/04/2018 14:38:47    2092983

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Replying To 37thHeaven:  "these games at Croke Park will get brutal crowds as they won't be knockout games.

Imagine if it's Kerry v Galway - very few will go all the way to Dublin for a game that isn't KO(Very few from either went last year and that was a KO game) It should be in Limerick same with the other neutral games."
If the winner of Cork v Tipperary get there (and they only have to win one match to get there) the crowds will be truly brutal. This includes the home ties. If Kerry fans have no appetite for this, then it is safe enough to conclude that there is no appetite for this in Munster. There is a good chance that there will be at least two counties and up to 4 in it given the lobs ides (unfair even) nature of the provincial system.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3617 - 14/04/2018 15:30:16    2092988

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Replying To TheHermit:  "A strange phrase you have used -, 'enjoy a petty win about Dublin' - are you suggesting there is something 'petty' about wanting all eight counties who qualify to face the same challenge on the field of play?

At present the system will mean that Dublin have effectively two home games, where the crowd will be 80%+ in their favour (with all the influence that gives in terms of team morale and influencing refereeing decisions).
As any fair minded individual can see this is a distinct advantage over every other county.

There are plenty of grounds in Munster which have the capacity to accommodate Dublin's season ticket allocation and have room left over for a few thousand more of their supporters.

It would also mean the Dublin County Board having to do what every other County Board has to do come the Championship - put their hands in their pockets and pay to transport and accommodate their senior county footballers on match day. Heaven knows they have all the money in the world to pay for it!"
Great comment and its spot on

Galwayjoe86 (Galway) - Posts: 152 - 14/04/2018 15:46:03    2092990

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Does any one think a Super 12 - a la 4 groups of 3 - would have been better - 4 winners to KO SFs ?
In this scenario, if the group schedule is flexible so that the winner in the 1st group game gets a bye in the 2nd, it is impossible to have any dead rubbers - unlike the high likelihood in the Super 8.
Does anyone agree ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1240 - 14/04/2018 16:36:57    2092995

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Replying To 37thHeaven:  "these games at Croke Park will get brutal crowds as they won't be knockout games.

Imagine if it's Kerry v Galway - very few will go all the way to Dublin for a game that isn't KO(Very few from either went last year and that was a KO game) It should be in Limerick same with the other neutral games."
Good point, i think it would ok if the last round of group games are played at Croker with a double header since a place in the Semis would be at stake, that would definitely attract big crowds

Hill16Army (Dublin) - Posts: 88 - 14/04/2018 17:15:30    2093000

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Replying To TheHermit:  "A strange phrase you have used -, 'enjoy a petty win about Dublin' - are you suggesting there is something 'petty' about wanting all eight counties who qualify to face the same challenge on the field of play?

At present the system will mean that Dublin have effectively two home games, where the crowd will be 80%+ in their favour (with all the influence that gives in terms of team morale and influencing refereeing decisions).
As any fair minded individual can see this is a distinct advantage over every other county.

There are plenty of grounds in Munster which have the capacity to accommodate Dublin's season ticket allocation and have room left over for a few thousand more of their supporters.

It would also mean the Dublin County Board having to do what every other County Board has to do come the Championship - put their hands in their pockets and pay to transport and accommodate their senior county footballers on match day. Heaven knows they have all the money in the world to pay for it!"
Why strange mate. I knew that when i bumped the thread that you and other some other posters would make the point about Dublin's home games. I actually think it's valid and Dublin shouldn't play two games in Croke Park. But the pettiness part comes from an obsession with a Dublin and a perceived gratification you get constantly trying to throw mud. I'm personally cool with it, but it ruins the quality of a thread, people are bored of hearing Kerry and Dublin fans point scoring and ruins so many threads. So I don't want this thread to descend into other petty ones that closed down. Let's just accept most Kerrymen think Dublin have bought all their all Ireland's and most Dubs think that Kerry are basically the Meath of South West who have won straw all Ireland's and cut a lot of the trolling, never the twain shall meet.

I agree broadly, Dublin should not play two home games in Croke Park, I don't think Dublin should forfeit a home game though, as I said the home game should be in Parnell Park with a limited attendance. Dublin will be down in Munster I'd say anyway, I think whatever happens you can hang your hat Dublin will play in Parc Ui C in the summer maybe even regardless of the opposition.

Has it been confirmed that Dublin will get two games in Croke Park. If so who is making that decision. I can gaurentee it's not the DCB. So what are other county boards doing to highlight this as an issue. I haven't heard anything, perhaps the the grants yee received for Currens and IT Tralee or grants other county boards received in Omertà money, or perhaps having the Dubs in Croke Park suits everyone financially.

Certainly if it the case, Dublin do play two games in Croke Park, I think a full analysis should be made on the decision making around that by the GAA, or the roles and reasons why county boards just accept this. I'm sure the DCB have very little say on where Dublin play, they certainly don't in the Leinster championship. If anything Dublin gets used as the cash cow every time.

If Kerry play two games in Croke Park, if say they play Connacht Champions there the first weekend and Kildare play their home game there, would you think that gives Kerry an unfair advantage over other counties competing. Surely it's the same principal.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 1588 - 14/04/2018 17:32:36    2093002

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Replying To 37thHeaven:  "these games at Croke Park will get brutal crowds as they won't be knockout games.

Imagine if it's Kerry v Galway - very few will go all the way to Dublin for a game that isn't KO(Very few from either went last year and that was a KO game) It should be in Limerick same with the other neutral games."
I think the GAA have been clever playing the Croke Park games the first week, they are arguably the biggest games against the two provincal winners and no chance of a dead rubbers as might be the case in the later games.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 1588 - 14/04/2018 17:34:55    2093003

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Replying To bennybunny:  "If the winner of Cork v Tipperary get there (and they only have to win one match to get there) the crowds will be truly brutal. This includes the home ties. If Kerry fans have no appetite for this, then it is safe enough to conclude that there is no appetite for this in Munster. There is a good chance that there will be at least two counties and up to 4 in it given the lobs ides (unfair even) nature of the provincial system."
If tipp/cork get there and Kerry win Munster then they will be in a group with Dublin and can guarantee Dublins away game will be in thurles or puc, big stadiums, big dubs support and easy travel.

tipp11 (Tipperary) - Posts: 289 - 14/04/2018 17:44:47    2093005

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Replying To Hill16Army:  "Good point, i think it would ok if the last round of group games are played at Croker with a double header since a place in the Semis would be at stake, that would definitely attract big crowds"
It seems to assume there is a SF berth at stake in dead rubbers. I think double chance KO is better than 4-team round robins. Say, 2 more Front Door rounds for the Last 8 - 2 unbeaten to AIC KO QFs, 2 to last Qual Rd (Rd 3, 12 teams) and 4 to Qual Rd 2 (20 teams).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1240 - 14/04/2018 18:45:24    2093008

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Why strange mate. I knew that when i bumped the thread that you and other some other posters would make the point about Dublin's home games. I actually think it's valid and Dublin shouldn't play two games in Croke Park. But the pettiness part comes from an obsession with a Dublin and a perceived gratification you get constantly trying to throw mud. I'm personally cool with it, but it ruins the quality of a thread, people are bored of hearing Kerry and Dublin fans point scoring and ruins so many threads. So I don't want this thread to descend into other petty ones that closed down. Let's just accept most Kerrymen think Dublin have bought all their all Ireland's and most Dubs think that Kerry are basically the Meath of South West who have won straw all Ireland's and cut a lot of the trolling, never the twain shall meet.

I agree broadly, Dublin should not play two home games in Croke Park, I don't think Dublin should forfeit a home game though, as I said the home game should be in Parnell Park with a limited attendance. Dublin will be down in Munster I'd say anyway, I think whatever happens you can hang your hat Dublin will play in Parc Ui C in the summer maybe even regardless of the opposition.

Has it been confirmed that Dublin will get two games in Croke Park. If so who is making that decision. I can gaurentee it's not the DCB. So what are other county boards doing to highlight this as an issue. I haven't heard anything, perhaps the the grants yee received for Currens and IT Tralee or grants other county boards received in Omertà money, or perhaps having the Dubs in Croke Park suits everyone financially.

Certainly if it the case, Dublin do play two games in Croke Park, I think a full analysis should be made on the decision making around that by the GAA, or the roles and reasons why county boards just accept this. I'm sure the DCB have very little say on where Dublin play, they certainly don't in the Leinster championship. If anything Dublin gets used as the cash cow every time.

If Kerry play two games in Croke Park, if say they play Connacht Champions there the first weekend and Kildare play their home game there, would you think that gives Kerry an unfair advantage over other counties competing. Surely it's the same principal."
Sorry lad, your using strange phrases again, 'straw all ireland'? 'Meath of the South West'???

Anyway think your post is classic deflection, talking about an obsession with Dublin in order to hide a glarying unbalance in the super 8 system that you can't justify.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 3756 - 14/04/2018 20:32:41    2093018

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Sorry lad, your using strange phrases again, 'straw all ireland'? 'Meath of the South West'???

Anyway think your post is classic deflection, talking about an obsession with Dublin in order to hide a glarying unbalance in the super 8 system that you can't justify."
Kool and significant others kiddo, if we talk about denial on your part and deflection on my mine we will turn this into a psychoanalytical forum, not without merit mind! ;)

You have mixed emotions on Dublin mate, I think you've spent so much time obsessing about them you have a grudging love for them or maybe Stockholm Syndrome is a better description.

I can't remember the last time I saw you post about Kerry, had to double check what county you were from again.

Anyhow I see your not keen to rebutal, so hopefully this won't descend into a Kerry and Dublin bitchfest.

The super 8s are beyond both counties so hopefully the spirit of the tread will remain objective and unrolled.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 1588 - 14/04/2018 21:02:51    2093022

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Kool and significant others kiddo, if we talk about denial on your part and deflection on my mine we will turn this into a psychoanalytical forum, not without merit mind! ;)

You have mixed emotions on Dublin mate, I think you've spent so much time obsessing about them you have a grudging love for them or maybe Stockholm Syndrome is a better description.

I can't remember the last time I saw you post about Kerry, had to double check what county you were from again.

Anyhow I see your not keen to rebutal, so hopefully this won't descend into a Kerry and Dublin bitchfest.

The super 8s are beyond both counties so hopefully the spirit of the tread will remain objective and unrolled."
Post about Kerry every second day on the Kerry forum, "mate", not many topics on the main page these days that have any direct relevance for Kerry, I've also given plenty of rebuttals to you today and they are all valid.

Anyway username you've always tried to come across as balanced and reasonable but think people are seeing the mask slipping tonight. Nice little dig about checking my county by the way, you must be proud of that singular wit of yours.

Enjoy the two home games in Croker in the Super 8s sure heaven forbid we could all be on a level playing field ;D

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 3756 - 14/04/2018 22:27:32    2093037

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Post about Kerry every second day on the Kerry forum, "mate", not many topics on the main page these days that have any direct relevance for Kerry, I've also given plenty of rebuttals to you today and they are all valid.

Anyway username you've always tried to come across as balanced and reasonable but think people are seeing the mask slipping tonight. Nice little dig about checking my county by the way, you must be proud of that singular wit of yours.

Enjoy the two home games in Croker in the Super 8s sure heaven forbid we could all be on a level playing field ;D"
Thanks mate, I've no idea what you are talking about on masks, but each to his own on Saturday nights. I won't even go there with the victim stuff, to easy.

On the topic at hand, we have different ideas on points and debates and sadly I don't think you have any genuine interest in debating or being own minded. Your motivation is to post dogma and troll the site, the amount of threads closed down in the last week because of this is shameful.

Listen all the best to you and Kerry this year, I really hope you both grow and develop.

I think if this week has thought anything feeding trolls just closes threads and makes the place poorer.

Hopefully this thread isn't anothe that will be closed. I'll leave it there in that spirit, on the points and you as poster, both are wasteful of time. Have fun playing the victim! ;)

Atha Cliath Abu!

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 1588 - 14/04/2018 23:41:14    2093048

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Replying To omahant:  "Does any one think a Super 12 - a la 4 groups of 3 - would have been better - 4 winners to KO SFs ?
In this scenario, if the group schedule is flexible so that the winner in the 1st group game gets a bye in the 2nd, it is impossible to have any dead rubbers - unlike the high likelihood in the Super 8.
Does anyone agree ?"
Yes, I agree that a Super 12 would have been better. There would be four groups of three with a provincial champion in each one and two teams from each qualifying for the quarter finals.
But in a 3-team group it's the LOSER of the first match that should get a bye to avoid dead rubbers. So, if A beats B then the next match should be A v C. No matter what happens in that match the final match B v C is meaningful for both teams.
If the winner of the first match gets a bye then it means if A beats B and then C beats B, B is eliminated and the only purpose of the final match A v C is to determine who comes first and second.
However, one problem can arise regardless of the sequence if A v B is a draw. If C wins the next match (against say A) then It means C has 2 points, B has 1 and A has 1 going into the final match, B v C. A draw in that match would suit both B and C to qualify so there could be the possibility of a fix.

CeachtPeile (Cavan) - Posts: 43 - 15/04/2018 00:28:17    2093049

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