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In his Irish Times article today Jimmy McGuinness again made a number of sensible points. Calls for splitting Dublin in two are silly. Non Dubs used to laugh at their inadequacies when they couldn't win All Irelands despite their population & resources. Now that Dublin have their act together and are successful we should punish them? No, the best idea is to provide 'lesser' counties with the same level of coaching, sports science and nutrition as the young players in Dublin get.
If the expertise isn't there, then how can one hope to improve? We'll probably never see the likes of Leitrim or Carlow win an All Ireland. But taking Carlow as an example. This year they brought a well renowned coach from Down into their setup Stephen Poacher. Everyone could see the improvement in them and although they didn't win any silverware I think it's fair to say that the Carlow fans thoroughly enjoyed their team's exploits this summer.
As McGuinness also mentioned, players, teams and fans need to buy into something, to have a sense of developing and improving. Better results inevitably will follow given time and it will ensure that the GAA continues to thrive all over the country. But if county boards and teams just keep plodding along as they are, with no help from GAA HQ, then it becomes a problem.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9108 - 05/09/2017 10:34:12
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Yeah really enjoyed that article Lockjaw. Would anyone be against all the sponsorship money generated from all counties to be pooled together so that all counties can benefit?
As Jim says, every kid throughout the country should have as much chance to excel in the sport. They might not necessarily win an All Irelands but they'll be able to say that I got to compete with as much chance as the next lad.
In my opinion, that shouldn't be restricted to football, hurling and camogie too.
keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 05/09/2017 11:50:02
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Replying To Lockjaw: "In his Irish Times article today Jimmy McGuinness again made a number of sensible points. Calls for splitting Dublin in two are silly. Non Dubs used to laugh at their inadequacies when they couldn't win All Irelands despite their population & resources. Now that Dublin have their act together and are successful we should punish them? No, the best idea is to provide 'lesser' counties with the same level of coaching, sports science and nutrition as the young players in Dublin get.
If the expertise isn't there, then how can one hope to improve? We'll probably never see the likes of Leitrim or Carlow win an All Ireland. But taking Carlow as an example. This year they brought a well renowned coach from Down into their setup Stephen Poacher. Everyone could see the improvement in them and although they didn't win any silverware I think it's fair to say that the Carlow fans thoroughly enjoyed their team's exploits this summer.
As McGuinness also mentioned, players, teams and fans need to buy into something, to have a sense of developing and improving. Better results inevitably will follow given time and it will ensure that the GAA continues to thrive all over the country. But if county boards and teams just keep plodding along as they are, with no help from GAA HQ, then it becomes a problem." With all due respect to Jimmy this is what a sizeable minority of posters have been saying in the anti Dublin threads last week.. 'Dublin dominance bad for football', 'Mayo to save football', 'Open the lid on Dublin's finances'. There's nothing new in what he said.
It annoys me sometimes that he gets such credit for talking common sense, over every other commentator, and being looked on as 'the oracle'.
Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 05/09/2017 12:18:11
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Ha, ah well admittedly and understandably we probably treat the man's word as Gospel up here. His points, and those of others along similar lines are valid though. Look I can see why Jimmy can run people up the wrong way. His sense of conviction seems to upset people for some reason. I don't want to turn this into another Jimmy McGuinness thread though.
Genuine question for Dublin GAA fans. How many full time GAA coaches would there be in Dublin roughly? How is their salary paid?
What I'm getting towards is asking the question - is it sustainable for the GAA HQ to pay full time properly trained coaches in very county. I'm not talking 1 or 2 now. I'm talking about a serious effort to provide proper levels of coaching and all the other peripheral stuff that's necessary to enable our best young players to succeed.
I'd even go so far as to suggest there be some sort of third level qualification provided, in conjunction with the GAA, A sports science degree specifically tailored towards optimal GAA performance. These young graduates could become full time employees of the GAA, training future generations of GAA stars. It would probably require government support and serious buy-in from the GAA.
Maybe it's not feasible at all? Thoughts?
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9108 - 05/09/2017 13:10:02
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Jim is a smart man, but its all been said on here in some shape or fashion, and mostly ignored. Breaking up Dublin would destroy the game as we know it. I feel I need to echo what I said before on here, I could not support one Dublin over another and the 'derby' would eventually be hijacked by Bohs and Rovers types as a means to have a go at each other, on a bigger stage.
I remember Kerry sticking 9 goals past poor auld Clare, and people just turned away as if it was the norm. Nothing to see here, but haven't Clare come on well since, and I don't just mean 1992.
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8584 - 05/09/2017 14:27:10
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Aye but none of us are saying that we should break up Dublin. The point is that something else needs to be done in the other counties. Or should we just do nothing and hope for the best?
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9108 - 05/09/2017 14:50:19
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Aye but none of us are saying that we should break up Dublin. The point is that something else needs to be done in the other counties. Or should we just do nothing and hope for the best?" No no, by all means do something.
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8584 - 05/09/2017 15:07:39
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Aye but none of us are saying that we should break up Dublin. The point is that something else needs to be done in the other counties. Or should we just do nothing and hope for the best?" No no, by all means do something.
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8584 - 05/09/2017 15:08:12
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If Dublin were to ever split, that should be a proposal from Dublin to improve football in Dublin, it's no one elses business .
He mentioned the 8 year old from Drumcondra having a better chance to play in Croke park for their county than the 8 year old from Drumshambo? The 8 year old from Drumshambo I would have thought has a far better chance as to get on the Dublin county team is a huge challenge given the population of players they can pick from.
BlastCalyle (Mayo) - Posts: 206 - 05/09/2017 15:50:07
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Replying To keithlemon: "Yeah really enjoyed that article Lockjaw. Would anyone be against all the sponsorship money generated from all counties to be pooled together so that all counties can benefit?
As Jim says, every kid throughout the country should have as much chance to excel in the sport. They might not necessarily win an All Irelands but they'll be able to say that I got to compete with as much chance as the next lad.
In my opinion, that shouldn't be restricted to football, hurling and camogie too." something similar happens in american sports where there is revenue sharing to help the smaller market teams...personally id be all for it
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 05/09/2017 23:37:27
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If Dublin were to ever split, that should be a proposal from Dublin to improve football in Dublin, it's no one elses business .
He mentioned the 8 year old from Drumcondra having a better chance to play in Croke park for their county than the 8 year old from Drumshambo? The 8 year old from Drumshambo I would have thought has a far better chance as to get on the Dublin county team is a huge challenge given the population of players they can pick from.
BlastCalyle (Mayo) - Posts:187 - 05/09/2017 15:50:07 2
I agree on both points,
- Talk of a split should only occur if Dublin GAA themselves ever decide they feel its necessary, and only then should the rest of the GAA discuss it as it would need to be approved.
- Currently it is more difficult for a young player in Dublin to make the County panel than in other Counties, to think there is only 15 starting places available to players from a County of 1.5 million, meaning you would be 10 x times more likely to make a County team if your from Kerry or Donegal
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 06/09/2017 22:27:58
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Replying To alano12: "something similar happens in american sports where there is revenue sharing to help the smaller market teams...personally id be all for it" Absolutely. There should definitely be some kind of revenue sharing, better distribution, but sponsorship money stays with the counties. Again though this notion that more money = success is nonsense. County boards clearly need a HQ led strategy to get their structures right at underage level. If that requires money to fund a 'businness plan' then so be it but throw money at them and they will likely buy a big yellow bus. Paidi and Micko didn't need millions to make Westmeath and Kildare successful back in the day. His point about the kid in Drumcondra is hilarious. A 8 year old kid in Dublin has a better chance of becoming a future pope than playing IC football for Dublin.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 07/09/2017 08:59:51
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Replying To GaryMc82: "If Dublin were to ever split, that should be a proposal from Dublin to improve football in Dublin, it's no one elses business .
He mentioned the 8 year old from Drumcondra having a better chance to play in Croke park for their county than the 8 year old from Drumshambo? The 8 year old from Drumshambo I would have thought has a far better chance as to get on the Dublin county team is a huge challenge given the population of players they can pick from.
BlastCalyle (Mayo) - Posts:187 - 05/09/2017 15:50:07 2
I agree on both points,
- Talk of a split should only occur if Dublin GAA themselves ever decide they feel its necessary, and only then should the rest of the GAA discuss it as it would need to be approved.
- Currently it is more difficult for a young player in Dublin to make the County panel than in other Counties, to think there is only 15 starting places available to players from a County of 1.5 million, meaning you would be 10 x times more likely to make a County team if your from Kerry or Donegal" Yeah I would say there are probably a lot of serious unheard of (to the rest of the country) players playing in Dublin. But because of the intensity of the competition for places in the county set up they choose to play solely for their clubs.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9108 - 07/09/2017 09:21:42
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Leitrim's main sponsor is worth somewhere between 25000/30000. It was a few years ago anyway and they have the same sponsors. Their teams don't have over night stays for often crucial league matches.
Dublin stopped in Harveys Point hotel last year for food on the way back from Ballybofey after their league game. People in donegal can't even afford to go to harvey's point. Ha.
Leitrim have never competed with dublin and never will but the playing field is ridiculously skewed you'd wonder as a player what what is the point.
MickyThePost (Donegal) - Posts: 26 - 07/09/2017 10:13:27
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My daughter is 7 and finished her third Cúlcamp a few weeks ago and she loved it. The Cúlcamps are the first taste of playing football, hurling or camogie for a lot of our children. I often wonder do the Cúlcamps have a standard for each age category nationally or is it up to each club? There are a lot of years between Cúlcamp to be distracted away from GAA by outside influences so I think how the county are doing can keep them interested.
Between September and May we have provincial leagues in January and then the League. The provincial leagues, to me, seem little more than getting the sponsor's name in the paper and an inevitable college v county debate. For most Division 3 and 4 teams they will stay in the bottom two divisions, lose in their province and lose in the qualifiers. Not a whole lot of incentive for them and GAA seem to eventually want an Intermediate championship, a small Ireland with a poor standard of football. Will the chance to win a B championship be a great incentive for them?
Can the GAA not restructure the League or have a third competition between September and February where all counties participate and top counties coaches, players could mentor teams from the Division 3 and 4. Feels strange saying September there! Top counties would rest most players but still have decent teams out. They can only, eventually, improve playing counties of a higher standard.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7335 - 07/09/2017 11:42:16
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Yeah I would say there are probably a lot of serious unheard of (to the rest of the country) players playing in Dublin. But because of the intensity of the competition for places in the county set up they choose to play solely for their clubs.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts:5507 - 07/09/2017 09:21:42
Do you think we should introduce a draft system, where players who aren't part of their County Senior setup are allowed to be drafted to another County for the year or 2 years?
I'm sure Dublin have an aul corner forward or two that might do a job for another County
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 07/09/2017 17:28:13
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Replying To Joxer: "Absolutely. There should definitely be some kind of revenue sharing, better distribution, but sponsorship money stays with the counties. Again though this notion that more money = success is nonsense. County boards clearly need a HQ led strategy to get their structures right at underage level. If that requires money to fund a 'businness plan' then so be it but throw money at them and they will likely buy a big yellow bus. Paidi and Micko didn't need millions to make Westmeath and Kildare successful back in the day. His point about the kid in Drumcondra is hilarious. A 8 year old kid in Dublin has a better chance of becoming a future pope than playing IC football for Dublin." ah nobody is saying it equals success but other counties should be helped financially..lot of things like tradition, quality of players, available pick, standard of coaching, management team etc are all big factors...do think every county should be given the best possible chance to win though and we shouldnt have the giant gaps in resources like we have now between our so called bigger market counties such as us, cork & kerry and smaller counties such as the leitrims longfords carlows etc
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 07/09/2017 20:12:17
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Replying To Joxer: "Absolutely. There should definitely be some kind of revenue sharing, better distribution, but sponsorship money stays with the counties. Again though this notion that more money = success is nonsense. County boards clearly need a HQ led strategy to get their structures right at underage level. If that requires money to fund a 'businness plan' then so be it but throw money at them and they will likely buy a big yellow bus. Paidi and Micko didn't need millions to make Westmeath and Kildare successful back in the day. His point about the kid in Drumcondra is hilarious. A 8 year old kid in Dublin has a better chance of becoming a future pope than playing IC football for Dublin." paudi had a couple of exceptional underage teams a lot of whom went on to become good seniors..westmeath pretty good side after he left for a number of years...micko had plenty of money along with a good group of players..kildare are a huge county and he was one of the few to get the best out of them..wouldnt exactly compare likes of them and westmeath with leitrim who are miles off it and genuinely under resourced even compared to counties such as that never mind us or kerry
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 07/09/2017 20:14:43
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Replying To GaryMc82: "Yeah I would say there are probably a lot of serious unheard of (to the rest of the country) players playing in Dublin. But because of the intensity of the competition for places in the county set up they choose to play solely for their clubs.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts:5507 - 07/09/2017 09:21:42
Do you think we should introduce a draft system, where players who aren't part of their County Senior setup are allowed to be drafted to another County for the year or 2 years?
I'm sure Dublin have an aul corner forward or two that might do a job for another County" Ha imagine. If that can of worms was ever opened it'd be some craic!
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9108 - 08/09/2017 09:12:25
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Calls for splitting Dublin in two are silly. Non Dubs used to laugh at their inadequacies when they couldn't win All Irelands despite their population & resources. Now that Dublin have their act together and are successful we should punish them? No, the best idea is to provide 'lesser' counties with the same level of coaching, sports science and nutrition as the young players in Dublin get.
Good to see Jimmy catching up with what a lot of us have been saying for years - must be a bigger time difference between us and China than I realised.
My problem was never with a county like Dublin being successful - it was the lengths the GAA went to to help get them there while ignoring the needs of a lot of other Counties who arguably needed funding in the same manner. I just feel that the 15 or so year head start that has been afforded to the Dubs along with things like the population factor etc they have that it is a lead which may be insurmountable given how there is more money around now than when HQ started bankrolling. Again I stress - not the Dubs fault, they made hay while the sun shone. But the GAA may have created a monster.
Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 08/09/2017 09:52:09
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